Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612 
November 7th, 2007, 08:28 AM
Sal
Please understand I'm not arguing with your statement, regarding people not believing in "spirit", but I'd invite anyone to watch as elephants grieve a fallen comrade, or witness any of the unexplainable behaviors witnessed in the animal community. So ethereal a notion as the "spirit" is a demanding concept and calls both emotion and intellect into play.
I believe in "spirit" and yes I'd have a heck of a job trying to convince anyone else, but I'm not going to try....
I believe "spirit" is infomed by how we live and by how we love and treat or mistreat others....
Sal
Please understand I'm not arguing with your statement, regarding people not believing in "spirit", but I'd invite anyone to watch as elephants grieve a fallen comrade, or witness any of the unexplainable behaviors witnessed in the animal community. So ethereal a notion as the "spirit" is a demanding concept and calls both emotion and intellect into play.
I believe in "spirit" and yes I'd have a heck of a job trying to convince anyone else, but I'm not going to try....
I believe "spirit" is infomed by how we live and by how we love and treat or mistreat others....
Bright Spark
Posts: 460
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
November 7th, 2007, 08:29 AM
Busy, and then some....
Prototyping centre = Phase 1
Trading through Trust Merchant paradigm = Phase 2
Finance through Trust Merchant process = Phase 3
Implementation = Phase 4
But I'm getting too disassociated to do it on my own....
Quoting Sal
You have indeed been a little busy. 
Busy, and then some....
Prototyping centre = Phase 1
Trading through Trust Merchant paradigm = Phase 2
Finance through Trust Merchant process = Phase 3
Implementation = Phase 4
But I'm getting too disassociated to do it on my own....
Bright Spark
Posts: 460
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
November 7th, 2007, 08:32 AM
Quoting MikeyDB
You don't have to convince me....
Sal
Please understand I'm not arguing with your statement, regarding people not believing in "spirit", but I'd invite anyone to watch as elephants grieve a fallen comrade, or witness any of the unexplainable behaviors witnessed in the animal community. So ethereal a notion as the "spirit" is a demanding concept and calls both emotion and intellect into play.
I believe in "spirit" and yes I'd have a heck of a job trying to convince anyone else, but I'm not going to try....
I believe "spirit" is infomed by how we live and by how we love and treat or mistreat others....
Please understand I'm not arguing with your statement, regarding people not believing in "spirit", but I'd invite anyone to watch as elephants grieve a fallen comrade, or witness any of the unexplainable behaviors witnessed in the animal community. So ethereal a notion as the "spirit" is a demanding concept and calls both emotion and intellect into play.
I believe in "spirit" and yes I'd have a heck of a job trying to convince anyone else, but I'm not going to try....
I believe "spirit" is infomed by how we live and by how we love and treat or mistreat others....
Super Genius
Posts: 1,041
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
November 7th, 2007, 08:43 AM
I too believe in spirit. I have my whole life. Until I met various atheists along my path I did not even know non-belief in spirit existed such was my sheltered Catholic life. At first I felt sorry for them, probably truth be told, even superior to them. Now I have utmost respect for many as long as they do not feel superior to me for my "belief" in spirit. I do not like pompous or superior anything as I feel it indicates a lack of character or development. A strong group belief can make one that way. But that is a whole other topic although also "spirit-related" in every way.
I would be interested in knowing more about your belief in spirit and others in here too. Akbar has some interesting posts that would fit right in. I do not think it would be fair though to hijack the space here though as there are so many different aspects to spirit. And this would just be a different one.
Can I challenge you to start a new thread? I am not good at generating thread discussion although I would happily contribute. I am usu sally fairly middle of the road when discussing so lack of controversy can kill it fast.
Quoting MikeyDB
Morning Mikey,
Sal
Please understand I'm not arguing with your statement, regarding people not believing in "spirit", but I'd invite anyone to watch as elephants grieve a fallen comrade, or witness any of the unexplainable behaviors witnessed in the animal community. So ethereal a notion as the "spirit" is a demanding concept and calls both emotion and intellect into play.
I believe in "spirit" and yes I'd have a heck of a job trying to convince anyone else, but I'm not going to try....
I believe "spirit" is infomed by how we live and by how we love and treat or mistreat others....
Please understand I'm not arguing with your statement, regarding people not believing in "spirit", but I'd invite anyone to watch as elephants grieve a fallen comrade, or witness any of the unexplainable behaviors witnessed in the animal community. So ethereal a notion as the "spirit" is a demanding concept and calls both emotion and intellect into play.
I believe in "spirit" and yes I'd have a heck of a job trying to convince anyone else, but I'm not going to try....
I believe "spirit" is infomed by how we live and by how we love and treat or mistreat others....
I too believe in spirit. I have my whole life. Until I met various atheists along my path I did not even know non-belief in spirit existed such was my sheltered Catholic life. At first I felt sorry for them, probably truth be told, even superior to them. Now I have utmost respect for many as long as they do not feel superior to me for my "belief" in spirit. I do not like pompous or superior anything as I feel it indicates a lack of character or development. A strong group belief can make one that way. But that is a whole other topic although also "spirit-related" in every way.
I would be interested in knowing more about your belief in spirit and others in here too. Akbar has some interesting posts that would fit right in. I do not think it would be fair though to hijack the space here though as there are so many different aspects to spirit. And this would just be a different one.
Can I challenge you to start a new thread? I am not good at generating thread discussion although I would happily contribute. I am usu sally fairly middle of the road when discussing so lack of controversy can kill it fast.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,041
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
November 7th, 2007, 08:46 AM
Quoting Northboy
So Northboy, it sounds like you are busy looking after the basic human needs of others in order to allow them the kind of life where they can concern themselves with something other than just bare existance. Am I correct or have I misinterpreted what I read there?
Busy, and then some....
Prototyping centre = Phase 1
Trading through Trust Merchant paradigm = Phase 2
Finance through Trust Merchant process = Phase 3
Implementation = Phase 4
But I'm getting too disassociated to do it on my own....
Prototyping centre = Phase 1
Trading through Trust Merchant paradigm = Phase 2
Finance through Trust Merchant process = Phase 3
Implementation = Phase 4
But I'm getting too disassociated to do it on my own....
Senate Member
Posts: 6,500
November 7th, 2007, 09:14 AM
Northboy/Sal
Sounds like the ideal community I keep wishing for - although many of my friends and I do similar things as individuals and are not organized very well...
Davis California is as close as I can find to emulate what you are proposing...
Northboy/Sal
Sounds like the ideal community I keep wishing for - although many of my friends and I do similar things as individuals and are not organized very well...
Davis California is as close as I can find to emulate what you are proposing...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posts: 6,547
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
November 7th, 2007, 10:24 AM
I wonder if perhaps there is a false dichotomy between "need" and "want".
Perhaps it is a continuum?
I wonder if perhaps there is a false dichotomy between "need" and "want".
Perhaps it is a continuum?
Council Member
Posts: 1,923
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
November 7th, 2007, 10:30 AM
Plain old wants, is plain old lust.
peace>>>AJ
Quoting hermanntrude
My thinking is that need to survive is basic, want to survive is spiritual.
I wonder if perhaps there is a false dichotomy between "need" and "want".
Perhaps it is a continuum?
Perhaps it is a continuum?
Plain old wants, is plain old lust.
peace>>>AJ
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posts: 6,547
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
November 7th, 2007, 10:56 AM
This is why I see the transition between need and want as a grey area. Basically what you "want" is what you "need" to acheive a greater level of comfort. If you strip down to the very basic needs, not one of us would find life emotionally bearable, which some would say brings the further "wants" up to the status of "need" and so on ad infinitum
Quoting look3467
AJ, old friend. I think you're oversimplifying. If all you need is what you need to survive, perhaps you only "want" to have a decent oxygen supply. You could survive with less, although you'd be slower and less capable of making rational choices.
My thinking is that need to survive is basic, want to survive is spiritual.
Plain old wants, is plain old lust.
peace>>>AJ
Plain old wants, is plain old lust.
peace>>>AJ
This is why I see the transition between need and want as a grey area. Basically what you "want" is what you "need" to acheive a greater level of comfort. If you strip down to the very basic needs, not one of us would find life emotionally bearable, which some would say brings the further "wants" up to the status of "need" and so on ad infinitum
Bright Spark
Posts: 460
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
November 7th, 2007, 11:06 AM
You got me...I'm building an "Ark" and I am guided on the path....
It comes down to a matter of "Scale", that God has left up to you....
Quoting Sal
Yep....
So Northboy, it sounds like you are busy looking after the basic human needs of others in order to allow them the kind of life where they can concern themselves with something other than just bare existance. Am I correct or have I misinterpreted what I read there?
You got me...I'm building an "Ark" and I am guided on the path....
It comes down to a matter of "Scale", that God has left up to you....
Bright Spark
Posts: 460
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
November 7th, 2007, 11:10 AM
I'll check it out....
Quoting Curiosity
I don't know Davis, California... Northboy/Sal
Sounds like the ideal community I keep wishing for - although many of my friends and I do similar things as individuals and are not organized very well...
Davis California is as close as I can find to emulate what you are proposing...
Sounds like the ideal community I keep wishing for - although many of my friends and I do similar things as individuals and are not organized very well...
Davis California is as close as I can find to emulate what you are proposing...
I'll check it out....
Council Member
Posts: 1,923
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
November 7th, 2007, 11:46 AM
An animal, an insect doesn't want anything, but needs only, in order to survive.
Our nature is not so much a need to survive, but a want to survive.
The want part than is spiritual because that involves intelligence, thus the ability to reason, make choices which detail the very nature of who we are.
How much want is dependent on time (Age we live in), location, ability to obtain and chance. (fortune)
I am coming from the point that without a spiritual element in mankind, we would be just as any insect, a worm.
peace>>>AJ
Quoting hermanntrude
Yes, your right, but what I am referring to is something that defines our nature.
AJ, old friend. I think you're oversimplifying. If all you need is what you need to survive, perhaps you only "want" to have a decent oxygen supply. You could survive with less, although you'd be slower and less capable of making rational choices.
This is why I see the transition between need and want as a grey area. Basically what you "want" is what you "need" to achieve a greater level of comfort. If you strip down to the very basic needs, not one of us would find life emotionally bearable, which some would say brings the further "wants" up to the status of "need" and so on ad infinitum
This is why I see the transition between need and want as a grey area. Basically what you "want" is what you "need" to achieve a greater level of comfort. If you strip down to the very basic needs, not one of us would find life emotionally bearable, which some would say brings the further "wants" up to the status of "need" and so on ad infinitum
An animal, an insect doesn't want anything, but needs only, in order to survive.
Our nature is not so much a need to survive, but a want to survive.
The want part than is spiritual because that involves intelligence, thus the ability to reason, make choices which detail the very nature of who we are.
How much want is dependent on time (Age we live in), location, ability to obtain and chance. (fortune)
I am coming from the point that without a spiritual element in mankind, we would be just as any insect, a worm.
peace>>>AJ
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Posts: 6,547
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
November 7th, 2007, 11:51 AM
having said that, if the animal is given the less preferable foodstuff, does it not "want" the other? Perhaps not, but only because of its inability to visualise the choice when it's not available. So when it DOES have the choice, does it simply "need" to get the preferable foodstuff, or does it "want" that foodstuff more than the other?
Quoting look3467
again i think you're oversimplifying. Most animals, including insects, given a choice between two foodstuffs, will show a preference for one.
Yes, your right, but what I am referring to is something that defines our nature.
An animal, an insect doesn't want anything, but needs only, in order to survive.
Our nature is not so much a need to survive, but a want to survive.
The want part than is spiritual because that involves intelligence, thus the ability to reason, make choices which detail the very nature of who we are.
How much want is dependent on time (Age we live in), location, ability to obtain and chance. (fortune)
I am coming from the point that without a spiritual element in mankind, we would be just as any insect, a worm.
peace>>>AJ
An animal, an insect doesn't want anything, but needs only, in order to survive.
Our nature is not so much a need to survive, but a want to survive.
The want part than is spiritual because that involves intelligence, thus the ability to reason, make choices which detail the very nature of who we are.
How much want is dependent on time (Age we live in), location, ability to obtain and chance. (fortune)
I am coming from the point that without a spiritual element in mankind, we would be just as any insect, a worm.
peace>>>AJ
having said that, if the animal is given the less preferable foodstuff, does it not "want" the other? Perhaps not, but only because of its inability to visualise the choice when it's not available. So when it DOES have the choice, does it simply "need" to get the preferable foodstuff, or does it "want" that foodstuff more than the other?
Council Member
Posts: 1,923
Location: Northern California
Location: Northern California
November 7th, 2007, 12:10 PM
The dog does have dry cereal, less appetizing but yet eats because there's nothing else.
Given a preference, the dog, would prefer the morsels over the cereal, any time.
I'm not sure that that is considered a want, as in reasoning, but more a trained behavior based on taste and or smell.
My basing it on reasoning requires a choice, where their might be a need for a little salt or pepper.
I don't deny the animals from having a spirit from God, but not an intelligent spirit as ours, which I believe defines us from them.
Peace>>>AJ
Quoting hermanntrude
My son has a dog which when the sound of the truck she drives arrives in, the dog practically falls apart trying to get out the door to meet her, for she brings him morsels of meat left overs from her job.
again i think you're oversimplifying. Most animals, including insects, given a choice between two foodstuffs, will show a preference for one.
having said that, if the animal is given the less preferable foodstuff, does it not "want" the other? Perhaps not, but only because of its inability to visualize the choice when it's not available. So when it DOES have the choice, does it simply "need" to get the preferable foodstuff, or does it "want" that foodstuff more than the other?
having said that, if the animal is given the less preferable foodstuff, does it not "want" the other? Perhaps not, but only because of its inability to visualize the choice when it's not available. So when it DOES have the choice, does it simply "need" to get the preferable foodstuff, or does it "want" that foodstuff more than the other?
The dog does have dry cereal, less appetizing but yet eats because there's nothing else.
Given a preference, the dog, would prefer the morsels over the cereal, any time.
I'm not sure that that is considered a want, as in reasoning, but more a trained behavior based on taste and or smell.
My basing it on reasoning requires a choice, where their might be a need for a little salt or pepper.
I don't deny the animals from having a spirit from God, but not an intelligent spirit as ours, which I believe defines us from them.
Peace>>>AJ
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posts: 6,547
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
November 7th, 2007, 12:12 PM
I don't think we need to invoke spirits and souls here. I think the dog preferring real meat is exactly the same as you or I preferring chocolate to brussel sprouts. If I can be said to "want" chocolate, the dog can be said to "want" meat.
I don't think we need to invoke spirits and souls here. I think the dog preferring real meat is exactly the same as you or I preferring chocolate to brussel sprouts. If I can be said to "want" chocolate, the dog can be said to "want" meat.
Senate Member
Posts: 6,500
November 7th, 2007, 02:15 PM
The owner's mother (?) brings the pet morsels of meat - it is tasty food as well as companionship - someone to love and share the greeting. With or without morsels the doggie might greet everyone that way... well perhaps not as ecstatically but most dogs love to greet people at the door.
Quoting look3467
Oh AJ you overlooked an important key element to the 'morsel preference' by the lonely doggie which is also a human trait and one which I argue is important that we recognize our basic needs to socialize and compare and have friendships...even enemies.
My son has a dog which when the sound of the truck she drives arrives in, the dog practically falls apart trying to get out the door to meet her, for she brings him morsels of meat left overs from her job.
The dog does have dry cereal, less appetizing but yet eats because there's nothing else.
Given a preference, the dog, would prefer the morsels over the cereal, any time.
I'm not sure that that is considered a want, as in reasoning, but more a trained behavior based on taste and or smell.
My basing it on reasoning requires a choice, where their might be a need for a little salt or pepper.
I don't deny the animals from having a spirit from God, but not an intelligent spirit as ours, which I believe defines us from them.
Peace>>>AJ
The dog does have dry cereal, less appetizing but yet eats because there's nothing else.
Given a preference, the dog, would prefer the morsels over the cereal, any time.
I'm not sure that that is considered a want, as in reasoning, but more a trained behavior based on taste and or smell.
My basing it on reasoning requires a choice, where their might be a need for a little salt or pepper.
I don't deny the animals from having a spirit from God, but not an intelligent spirit as ours, which I believe defines us from them.
Peace>>>AJ
The owner's mother (?) brings the pet morsels of meat - it is tasty food as well as companionship - someone to love and share the greeting. With or without morsels the doggie might greet everyone that way... well perhaps not as ecstatically but most dogs love to greet people at the door.
Senate Member
Posts: 6,500
November 7th, 2007, 02:19 PM
Northboy
I think the currently popular name for these newly developing communities often use the word Harmony in their names....
Like Harmony Evironmental Community Movement - something like that...
I think of it in California as "Birkenstock Heaven" haha
Northboy
I think the currently popular name for these newly developing communities often use the word Harmony in their names....
Like Harmony Evironmental Community Movement - something like that...
I think of it in California as "Birkenstock Heaven" haha
Bright Spark
Posts: 460
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
Location: Vanderhoof, BC
November 7th, 2007, 03:10 PM
This is a green industrial matrix and has nothing to do with geography, other than looking after my appointed region....Appropriate scale after all....
Quoting Curiosity
Oh no, this is not that kind of community.... Northboy
I think the currently popular name for these newly developing communities often use the word Harmony in their names....
Like Harmony Evironmental Community Movement - something like that...
I think of it in California as "Birkenstock Heaven" haha
I think the currently popular name for these newly developing communities often use the word Harmony in their names....
Like Harmony Evironmental Community Movement - something like that...
I think of it in California as "Birkenstock Heaven" haha
This is a green industrial matrix and has nothing to do with geography, other than looking after my appointed region....Appropriate scale after all....
