Learning....again.

[china]

To inquire and to learn is the function of the mind. By learning I do not mean the mere cultivation of memory or the accumulation of knowledge, but the capacity to think clearly and sanely without illusion, to start from facts and not from beliefs and ideals. There is no learning if thought originates from conclusions. Merely to acquire information or knowledge is not to learn. Learning implies the love of understanding and the love of doing a thing for itself. Learning is possible only when there is no coercion of any kind. And coercion takes many forms, does it not? There is coercion through influence, through attachment or threat, through persuasive encouragement or subtle forms of reward.What are your thoughts ....Dexter and all .

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

Pride is the biggest stumbling block. If you cannot admit your wrong , you can't learn. I actually love it when i'm wrong, for inevitably I just learned something.
Another point , when i was 17 A really did know it all.

 

[MikeyDB]

Knowlege has to arise from within. Experiential learning is the best teacher albeit the most dangerous. If you'd like to read some of the ideas that have shaped the way we learn and different perspectives on "learning" explore Vigotsky and Baldwin. Theories of "what we can know" have engendered libraries and philosophies of learning continue thoughout human history. We "learn" as our culture "learns" and our cultures influence the expression and manifestation of the search for knowledge.

Having the pieces of a bicycle won't get you anywhere without the knowledge of principles and functions that can take inannimate pieces of metal plastic and rubber and assemble them into a cogent interrelatinship that has purpose and means....

 

[Johnnny]

i dont care if im wrong ill be more than happy to learn from my mistakes. I also dont care what anyone here thinks ill tell you my honest opinion

 

[SwitSof]

Learning implies the love of understanding and the love of doing a thing for itself.

True I reckon. What is considered skills is the ability to apply the knowledge one has into practice.

Learning is possible only when there is no coercion of any kind. And coercion takes many forms, does it not? There is coercion through influence, through attachment or threat, through persuasive encouragement or subtle forms of reward.

It sounds more of motivation to me, does it not? What encourages some learners to learn can be influence from others, can be an attachment to something, etc. Something that needs to be considered is also how the delivery of knowledge can be effective to be understood completely by the learners. The knowledge can certainly be put there, like to put on the net in a form of texts on a simple web page let's say, but if it doesn't help the learners to have an understanding on what is written, what is the point?

 

[china]

SwitSof :what is the point?
Dear SwitSof',This is what I mean by learning and accumulating knowledge.Is there learning when you are merely accumulating knowledge, gathering information? That is one kind of learning, is it not? As a student of engineering, you study mathematics, and so on; you are learning, informing yourself about the subject. You are accumulating knowledge in order to use that knowledge in practical ways. Your learning is accumulative, additive. Now, when the mind is merely taking on, adding, acquiring, is it learning? Or is learning something entirely different? I say the additive process which we now call learning is not learning at all. It is merely a cultivation of memory, which becomes mechanical; and a mind which functions mechanically, like a machine, is not capable of learning. A machine is never capable of learning, except in the additive sense. Learning is something quite different, I 'll try to show you. A mind that is learning never says, "I know", because knowledge is always partial, whereas learning is complete all the time. Learning does not mean starting with a certain amount of knowledge, and adding to it further knowledge. That is not learning at all; it is a purely mechanistic process. To me, learning is something entirely different. I am learning about myself from moment to moment, and the myself is extraordinarily vital; it is living, moving; it has no beginning and no end. When I say, "I know myself", learning has come to an end in accumulated knowledge. Learning is never cumulative; it is a movement of knowing which has no beginning and no end .Hope that answers the your question.

 

[SwitSof]

Something interesting to read about learning:

Physiology of learning

"Thought," in a general sense, is commonly conceived as something arising from the stimulation of neurons in the brain. Current understanding of neurons and the central nervous system implies that the process of learning corresponds to changes in the relationship between certain neurons in the brain. Research is ongoing in this area.
Generally, however, it is recognized that the retainment of memory comes easier when multiple parts of the brain (such as hearing, seeing, smelling, motor skills, touch sense, and logical thinking lobes; informal names given) are stimulated.

 

[MikeyDB]

Switsof

I'm not scolding ...please don't interpret what I'm about to suggest...is criticism from arrogance or false pride....

We don't learn to love our parents when we're born, that facility is innate. Some would argue that it's a dependency relationship, that we are so reliant on the adult figures around us while we are weak and helpless that our "needs" define us and accomodate the arousal of love in relation to having these needs met. Witholding, whether its nourishment or warmth, attention to our hygiene or satisfyiing our quest for comfort, establishes a dichotomy. Sometimes we'll have our needs anticipated and met and sometimes we won't....

Do we learn to hate from that condition of suffering imposed intentionally or otherwise by the adults around us when we don't have our needs met...when we're left dissatisfied with our condition?

Or do we learn that we have to do something in our circumstance to help alleviate the situation or condition that's bothersome or uncomfortable...

And which "lesson" has more long lasting impact and importance on our thinking as we make our way through the years?

My point is that although it does serve some purpose, regarding the mechanisms of thought...the biochemical dynamic from which consciousness emerges...as merely interrelationship of chemicals and electricity....doesn't "teach" us anything. Sure it provides some insight into how the mechanics of the organism we each are...will respond or behave given a blueprint of pipes and wires...but the way a thought or a dream emerges from these internal processes isn't understood and will perhaps never be understood.....

And that's where a human being....an entity with the capacity to love, to hate to share to sing to smile to dance...to write a sonnet to pen a symphony... to paint a picture to act with kindness and compasssion and respond with anger and rage....that's where these amazing capacities come from...from a biochemical process that we don't understand.

Would the understanding of that process make us more or less human?

The great mystery isn't in imaging processes or the many models of how the atom "works", it's not in the delicate ladder of the DNA spiral and it isn't in the neurotransmitters that bathe the brain...

The great adventure of humanity ...and all life for that matter exists and that it exists as a wonderous and engagning phenomenon...but all the answers to all the questions emerge from the unknown...from the unknowable....

Humankind has become adept and greatly interested in the mechanics of life...and yet our species sits on the brink of a precipice.... a precipice that has been created by adoration and near-worship of the mechanics of everything..... While the mystery continues to elude us all...

If we're going to "learn" we must begin again....

 

[china]

MickeyDB:
If we're going to "learn" we must begin again....

I think one must distinguish between two kinds of learningy Mickey. There is the learning which is accumulation of knowledge, which is a matter of time and effort. This is essentially the cultivation of skills or of thought and memory. There is also a more important learning which is the capacity to discern what is true and discard what is false and thereby come upon a deeper meaning and significance of everything in life including love, religion, beauty and death. This learning is not accumulative, therefore it is not a matter of time. It has the nature of a holistic awareness, a deep understanding, a long vision, wisdom and compassion. With time one necessarily grows in knowledge and experience but not in wisdom. It is only when the mind has a deep insight or a direct perception of a truth that an illusion drops away and there is a greater wisdom or understanding of life. To keep ones mind in such a state of dialogue is that art of learning.

 

[MikeyDB]

Relieving ones "self" of the self....selflessness.....allows energies and ideas "normally" consumed by and engaged by comparisons and finding "differences"....and "similarities" ...

Energy used to accomodate structures and recognition of heirarchies and "strata".... energy not given to the learning-process you suggest as necessary....

Our capacity to learn....is limited by the traditions we embrace, by the forces and pressures we bear as burdens to support the structures of civility and identity....

We must learn and actualize the understanding that a parachute only works when its open....if we're not open to the mystery....we will remain like the keel of a ship....moving slowly through life...encumbered and encrusted with barnacles and algae....at first so light and insignificant a load that we can ignore it....until it becomes so heavy our passage our slow journey through the water becomes increasingly slower and until our forward progress becomes impossible...

Act at the beginning....

 

[Vereya]

I think one must distinguish between two kinds of learningy Mickey. There is the learning which is accumulation of knowledge, which is a matter of time and effort. This is essentially the cultivation of skills or of thought and memory. There is also a more important learning which is the capacity to discern what is true and discard what is false and thereby come upon a deeper meaning and significance of everything in life including love, religion, beauty and death. This learning is not accumulative, therefore it is not a matter of time. It has the nature of a holistic awareness, a deep understanding, a long vision, wisdom and compassion. With time one necessarily grows in knowledge and experience but not in wisdom. It is only when the mind has a deep insight or a direct perception of a truth that an illusion drops away and there is a greater wisdom or understanding of life. To keep ones mind in such a state of dialogue is that art of learning.

China, I think I disagreed with you on this point before, and I am going to diasgree once again
Both types of learning, that you have distinguished, are in fact one whole. You are not going to get a deep understanding or holistic awareness of something you know nothing about. Before you get some deep insight, you have to have a good command of the facts. So the kind of the "mechanical" learning that you reject is in fact the basis for the kind of learning that appeals to you.

 

[china]

Vereya ,
China, I think I disagreed with you on this point before, and I am going to diasgree once again

Both types of learning, that you have distinguished, are in fact one whole. You are not going to get a deep understanding or holistic awareness of something you know nothing about. Before you get some deep insight, you have to have a good command of the facts. So the kind of the "mechanical" learning that you reject is in fact the basis for the kind of learning that appeals to you.
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First, Vereya I don't agree and disagree on anything ;I just state my point of view , that's all .If you are not aware of what I,m saying in this post and the posts above ;no problem ,you have your truth and obviously I,m not trying to convince you of changing it.
Love , China