Pregnant woman downing drinks. What would you do?


gerryh
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

httpwwwyoutubecomwatchv3d9UJN7tj2Y



I think this video raises an interesting moral dilemma related to abortion.

In some states, a habitual drinker can be forced into rehab. But here's the question: does human life begin at conception or at birth? If human life starts at birth, then just as a pregnant woman should be allowed to have an abortion, she should be free to drink to her heart's content too since the fetus enjoys no human right until it is born.

If human life begins at conception, then yes, a judge should be allowed to force a pregnant habitual drinker into rehab, but can then prevent a woman from having an abortion too.

in short, how can one support the right of a woman to choose when it comes to abortion, but not when it comes to drinking while pregnant? Intellectual honesty and consistency requires one or the other: either the fetus has rights, or it doesn't.

So if you are a proponent of abortion, how would you react if you were in the video, and according to what logic?


Can a mod come in and fix this idiots mistake, please.
 
Curious Cdn
#3
Alcohol withdrawal is quite dangerous. So is the danger of FAS and I would think that getting a pregnant alcoholic to stop drinking for nine months is laden with issues and not as simple and straight forward as one would assume.
 
Remington1
#4
I don't see the correlation between the two. I have no dilemma with this one at all. I believe a woman has the right to end a pregnancy up to 20 weeks (I would lower this to 8 weeks myself), but I would absolutely say something if I would see a women drinking alcohol or doing drugs when clearly pregnant. I have no issue reconciling this one. I would actually throw the bit$#h in prison to keep her clean. This is not 1920 when people did not know the effect of drugs/ alcohol.
 
Machjo
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Remington1View Post

I don't see the correlation between the two. I have no dilemma with this one at all. I believe a woman has the right to end a pregnancy up to 20 weeks (I would lower this to 8 weeks myself), but I would absolutely say something if I would see a women drinking alcohol or doing drugs when clearly pregnant. I have no issue reconciling this one. I would actually throw the bit$#h in prison to keep her clean. This is not 1920 when people did not know the effect of drugs/ alcohol.

But we know the effects of abortion on the fetus too. So what's the difference between harming the fetus through abortion and harming it through alcohol consumption? It would seem to me that if one is okay, so is the other. In fact, abortion would cause even more damage to the fetus than alcohol would in most cases.
 
PoliticalNick
+1
#6  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Remington1View Post

I don't see the correlation between the two. I have no dilemma with this one at all. I believe a woman has the right to end a pregnancy up to 20 weeks (I would lower this to 8 weeks myself), but I would absolutely say something if I would see a women drinking alcohol or doing drugs when clearly pregnant. I have no issue reconciling this one. I would actually throw the bit$#h in prison to keep her clean. This is not 1920 when people did not know the effect of drugs/ alcohol.

So you don't have a problem taking over control of someone else's body...good to know.
 
Remington1
#7
Abortion does not harm a fetus, abortion kills the fetus. Alcohol and drugs damages a fetus that could eventually damage a person.

A drunk or drugged pregnant women who's not planning on having an abortion!! No, I would not have any problem in putting the bi%$ch in jail until the baby is born.
 
Machjo
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Remington1View Post

Abortion does not harm a fetus, abortion kills the fetus. Alcohol and drugs damages a fetus that could eventually damage a person.

A drunk or drugged pregnant women who's not planning on having an abortion!! No, I would not have any problem in putting the bi%$ch in jail until the baby is born.

So let me get this straight. It's okay to kill the fetus but not harm it?

Logically, it's one or the other. Either the fetus has rights or it doesn't.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

If human life starts at birth, then just as a pregnant woman should be allowed to have an abortion, she should be free to drink to her heart's content too since the fetus enjoys no human right until it is born.

If human life begins at conception, then yes, a judge should be allowed to force a pregnant habitual drinker into rehab, but can then prevent a woman from having an abortion too.

This proposition presents a dichotomy: it is either all rights belong to the woman, or all power belongs to the state. This is not the only possible structure, and it is not the current law in the United States (you did mention "some states"). If you read Roe v. Wade, you will see that the Supreme Court recognized different levels of state interest and the woman's rights at different stages of a pregnancy some 44 years ago.
 
taxslave
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

But we know the effects of abortion on the fetus too. So what's the difference between harming the fetus through abortion and harming it through alcohol consumption? It would seem to me that if one is okay, so is the other. In fact, abortion would cause even more damage to the fetus than alcohol would in most cases.

The fetus is not harmed at all. It is removed. End of problem.
 
Machjo
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

The fetus is not harmed at all. It is removed. End of problem.

How is it not harmed by being removed?
 
taxslave
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

So let me get this straight. It's okay to kill the fetus but not harm it?

Logically, it's one or the other. Either the fetus has rights or it doesn't.

It can't have rights because it doesn't exist on its own. If a fetus had rights it would come at the expense of the host's rights.

Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

How is it not harmed by being removed?

DO you need a biology lesson?
 
Machjo
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

It can't have rights because it doesn't exist on its own. If a fetus had rights it would come at the expense of the host's rights.



DO you need a biology lesson?

So you support the freedom of a pregnant woman to drink then. That's fine. My hats off to your consistency at least, that the fetus does not enjoy human rights prior to birth.
 
taxslave
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

So you support the freedom of a pregnant woman to drink then. That's fine. My hats off to your consistency at least, that the fetus does not enjoy human rights prior to birth.

A fetus is not human so it cannot enjoy human rights.
I didn't say the host has a right to drink or do drugs while pregnant. SHe has an obligation to society to do all she can to produce a healthy baby that will not become a burden on taxpayers.
 
PoliticalNick
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

So you support the freedom of a pregnant woman to drink then.

Absolutely! As soon as you limit someone else's freedom in any way you inherently limit your own. I choose freedom every time.
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

A fetus is not human so it cannot enjoy human rights.
I didn't say the host has a right to drink or do drugs while pregnant. SHe has an obligation to society to do all she can to produce a healthy baby that will not become a burden on taxpayers.

I'll say it....she has every right to drink or do drugs or bungee jump or whatever else she wants. If I want my freedom then I have to give her hers.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#16
If she is allowed to abort, by not aborting she should be held responsible for any damage done to the fetus.
 
Machjo
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

Absolutely! As soon as you limit someone else's freedom in any way you inherently limit your own. I choose freedom every time.

I'll say it....she has every right to drink or do drugs or bungee jump or whatever else she wants. If I want my freedom then I have to give her hers.

I don't agree with your position, but hats off for consistency.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

So you support the freedom of a pregnant woman to drink then. That's fine. My hats off to your consistency at least, that the fetus does not enjoy human rights prior to birth.

Nope, you are trying to force him into your dichotomy. Dishonest and fairly stupid argument tactic.
 
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