The sayings of Desert Fathers .

[china]

......these are some of thousands sayings of the Fathers .



One day some old men came to see Abba Anthony.
In the midst of them was Abba Joseph. Wanting to test
them, the old man suggested a text from the Scriptures, and,
beginning with the youngest, he asked them what it meant.
Each gave his opinion as he was able. But to each one the
old man said, 'You have not understood it.' Last of all he said
to Abba Joseph, 'How would you explain this saying?' and he
replied, 'I do not know.' Then Abba Anthony said 'Indeed Abba
Joseph has found the way, for he has said: "I do not
know."


Someone said to blessed Arsenius, 'How is it that we,
with all our education and our wide knowledge get nowhere, while these Egyptian peasants acquire so many
virtues?' Abba Arsenius said to him, 'We indeed get nothing
from our secular education, but these Egyptian peasants
acquire the virtues by hard work.


One day Abba Arsenius consulted an old Egyptian
monk about his own thoughts. Someone noticed this and
said to him, 'Abba Arsenius, how is it that you with such a
good Latin and Greek education ask this peasant about your
thoughts?' He replied, 'I have indeed been taught Latin and
Greek, but I do not know even the alphabet of this peasant.

 

[china]

The desert Fathers are the early Christians who left( 4th century) for the deserts of North Africa once the "world "
become 'christian'.Many religious consider the sayings of the fathers as beneficial as the Bible
Today , their sayings are still "hidden" in the desert as few people know of their existence .

"google" ....the sayings of desert fathers .

 

[Sal]

never heard of these Dessert Fathers and Mothers...thanks China, I am going to do some more reading about them and their wisdom

 

[china]

Thanks Sal ,yes , they were/are Children /Daughters of God and their sayings are precious.
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. A brother renounced the world and gave his goods to the
poor, but he kept back a little for his personal expenses. Hewent to see Abba Anthony. When he told him this, the old man said to him, 'If you want to be a monk, go into the
village, buy some meat, cover your naked body with it and
come here like that.' The brother did so, and the dogs and
birds tore at his flesh. When he came back the old man
asked him whether he had followed his advice. He showed
him his wounded body, and Saint Anthony said, 'Those who
renounce the world but want to keep something for themselves are torn in this way by the demons who make war
on them

Abba Mark said to Abba Arsenius, 'Why do you
avoid us?' The old man said to him, 'God knows that I love
you, but I cannot live with God and with men. The
thousands and ten thousands of the heavenly hosts have but
one will, while men have many. So I cannot leave God to
be with men.'


Some old men were entertaining themselves at Scetis by
having a meal together; amongst them was Abba John. A
venerable priest got up to offer drink, but nobody accepted
any from him, except John the Dwarf. They were surprised
and said to him, 'How is it that you, the youngest, dared to
let yourself be served by the priest?' Then he said to them,
'When I get up to offer drink, I am glad when everyone accepts it, since I am receiving my reward; that is the reason,
then, that I accepted it, so that he also might gain his reward
and not be grieved by seeing that no-one would accept
anything from him.' When they heard -this, they were all
filled with wonder and edification at his discretion.

 

[china]

Abba Macarius said this about himself: 'When I was
young and was living in a cell in Egypt, they took me to
make me a cleric in the village. Because I did not wish to
receive this dignity, I fled to another place. Then a devout
layman joined me; he sold my manual work for me and
served me. Now it happened that a virgin in the village,
under the weight of temptation, committed sin. When she
became pregnant, they asked her who was to blame. She
said, "The anchorite." Then they came to seize me, led me to
the village and hung pots black with soot and various other
things round my neck and led me through the village in all
directions, beating me and saying, "This monk has defiled
our virgin, catch him, catch him and they beat me almost to
death. Then one of the old men came and said: "What are
you doing, how long w ' ill you go on beating this strange
monk?" The man who served me was walking behind me, full
of shame, for they covered him with insults too, saying,
"Look at this anchorite, for whom you stood surety; what
has he done?" The girl's parents said, "Do not let him go till
he has given a pledge that he will keep her." I spoke to my
servant and he vouched for me. Going to my cell, I gave him
all the baskets I had, saying, "Sell them, and give my wife
something to eat." Then I said to myself, "Macarius, you
have found yourself a wife; you must work a little more in
order to keep her." So I worked night and day and sent my
work to her. But when the time came for the wretch to give
birth, she remained in labour many days without bringing
forth, and they said to her, "What is the matter?" She said, "I
know what it is, it is because I slandered the anchorite, and
accused him unjustly; it is not he who is to blame, but such
and such a young man." Then the man who served me came
to me full of joy saying, "The virgin could not give birth until
she had said 'The anchorite had nothing to do with it, but I
have lied about him.' The whole village wants to come here
solemnly and do penance before you." But when I heard this,
for fear people would disturb me, I got up and fled here to
Scetis. That is the original reason why I came here.'

 

[Dexter Sinister]

If that's typical of the sayings of the desert fathers, I'm underwhelmed.

 

[darkbeaver]

Poor translations perhaps.

 

[china]

If that's typical of the sayings of the desert fathers, I'm underwhelmed.

Their sayings are very simple and straight forward as was their way of living .....very simple .
They were aware that this is the only way they could " find the creator" .
They "lived in this world but were not of this world ".

I'm underwhelmed.

I don't think you can understand the true wisdom of simplicity , too bad.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

The true wisdom of simplicity? "...lived in this world but not of this world?" There's no wisdom implicit in simplicity, that's neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition, and you can't be in this world and not be of it, that's a completely meaningless phrase on a par with "the ineffable ground of all being." I know wisdom when I see it, and based on your citations these desert father guys didn't have it, they had some trite little stories they tried unsuccessfully to torque into meaningful lessons. Wrap your naked body in raw meat, walk a few miles in the wilderness, then tell us what important lessons you learned from the carrion eaters who came after you, as in your post #4 above. That was dumb advice, the guy was dumb to take it, and the lesson about demons the Father tried to tease out of it is nonsense. If you wrap yourself in raw meat, scavengers will come after you, that's the only lesson there.

 

[karrie]

The last story sounds reminiscent of one of the many vindication fantasies my best friend's chronic liar of a husband tells constantly.

 

[Highball]

Many of them lived in solitude and constant prayer and mediation. The conditions were arid, harsh and living conditions were very basic. Most were in the deserts around the Middle east and many locations have been found out in the Sinai Desert areas.

 

[china]

Abba Macarius said this about himself: 'When I was
young and was living in a cell in Egypt, they took me to
make me a cleric in the village. Because I did not wish to
receive this dignity, I fled to another place. Then a devout
layman joined me; he sold my manual work for me and
served me. Now it happened that a virgin in the village,
under the weight of temptation, committed sin. When she
became pregnant, they asked her who was to blame. She
said, "The anchorite." Then they came to seize me, led me to
the village and hung pots black with soot and various other
things round my neck and led me through the village in all
directions, beating me and saying, "This monk has defiled
our virgin, catch him, catch him and they beat me almost to
death. Then one of the old men came and said: "What are
you doing, how long w ' ill you go on beating this strange
monk?" The man who served me was walking behind me, full
of shame, for they covered him with insults too, saying,
"Look at this anchorite, for whom you stood surety; what
has he done?" The girl's parents said, "Do not let him go till
he has given a pledge that he will keep her." I spoke to my
servant and he vouched for me. Going to my cell, I gave him
all the baskets I had, saying, "Sell them, and give my wife
something to eat." Then I said to myself, "Macarius, you
have found yourself a wife; you must work a little more in
order to keep her." So I worked night and day and sent my
work to her. But when the time came for the wretch to give
birth, she remained in labour many days without bringing
forth, and they said to her, "What is the matter?" She said, "I
know what it is, it is because I slandered the anchorite, and
accused him unjustly; it is not he who is to blame, but such
and such a young man." Then the man who served me came
to me full of joy saying, "The virgin could not give birth until
she had said 'The anchorite had nothing to do with it, but I
have lied about him.' The whole village wants to come here
solemnly and do penance before you." But when I heard this,
for fear people would disturb me, I got up and fled here to
Scetis. That is the original reason why I came here.'

The true wisdom of simplicity? "...lived in this world but not of this world?" There's no wisdom implicit in simplicity, that's neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition, and you can't be in this world and not be of it, that's a completely meaningless phrase on a par with "the ineffable ground of all being." I know wisdom when I see it, and based on your citations these desert father guys didn't have it, they had some trite little stories they tried unsuccessfully to torque into meaningful lessons. Wrap your naked body in raw meat, walk a few miles in the wilderness, then tell us what important lessons you learned from the carrion eaters who came after you, as in your post #4 above. That was dumb advice, the guy was dumb to take it, and the lesson about demons the Father tried to tease out of it is nonsense. If you wrap yourself in raw meat, scavengers will come after you, that's the only lesson there.

Our definitions of wisdom differ ....... immensely .

 

[china]

]
The difference between stupid and intelligent people - and this is true whether or not they are well-educated - is that intelligent people can handle subtlety.
Neal Stephenson

________________________________________________________________________________________

Abba Xanthias said, "The thief was on the cross and he was justified by a
single word; and Judas who was counted in the number of the apostles lost
all his labor in one single night and descended from heaven to hell. Therefore
let no one boast of his good works, for all those who trust in themselves fall."