Equalization is unfair to Ontario

May 15th, 2006, 11:20 PM

I'm sorry Five, but I believe that is why the word exclusive is used; so there won't be any confusion...the confusion only comes in when the Feds start eyeing up provincial money and other jurisdictions.

May 15th, 2006, 11:38 PM

But Jay, the word "exclusive" is used in Sections 91, and 92!

May 16th, 2006, 12:15 AM

Read up when and why the federal government started using income tax as a source of revenu, five. It wasnt quite legal, but the provinces we're forced to accept, given the circumstance. The Federal government though, just continued doing it even though the war was over.

And that moment, is when unity sudenly became a problem for Canada.

May 16th, 2006, 12:48 AM

If it "wasn't quite legal", Numure, then the income tax legislation would have been struck down by the Supreme Court of Canada at anyone's request. As per Section 91(3), the Parliament Assembled of Canada has the right to raise revenue through taxes, through any mode or method.

May 16th, 2006, 09:14 AM

No. They made it permanent threw the war mesures act. And the supreme court can'T strike that down.

May 16th, 2006, 09:24 AM

We should just withhold payments. That will make the feds uneasy and more understanding to our needs and jurisdictions.

It's going to take time though.

May 17th, 2006, 02:21 AM

No, other way around. They used the word exclusive to keep the provinces out of other things. The list of provincial responsibilities was restricted specifically to things enumerated in the Act, everything else was assigned to the feds, including the right to take over certain areas of provincial responsibility if they were deemed to be of national importance. See Section 92(10)c.

No, the constitution's quite clear and direct about that. The feds have the power to raise money by "any mode or system of taxation," without restrictions or reservations. Judicial interpretations of our constitutional documents have also served to define what's come to be called the federal spending power, which loosely speaking means the federal government can spend money on anything it wants to. That's essentially the justification for equalization and transfer payments with conditions: it's really the feds spending money in areas of provincial jurisdiction. They're not just going to transfer funds into the provinces' general revenues, they can put conditions on its use, and it's perfectly legal and consistent with the constitution.

May 17th, 2006, 02:26 AM

You can't, realistically. The payments don't come from the provincial government, they come from individual taxpayers and corporations within each province, paid into the feds' general revenues, which they then redistribute according to assorted complex formulae.

May 17th, 2006, 08:14 AM

Section 10 and therefore section 10C are about “works”.


exclusively

1. Excluding or tending to exclude: exclusive barriers.
2. Not allowing something else; incompatible: mutually exclusive conditions.
3. Not divided or shared with others: exclusive publishing rights.
4. Not accompanied by others; single or sole: your exclusive function.
5. Complete; undivided: gained their exclusive attention.
6. Not including the specified extremes or limits, but only the area between them: 20-25, exclusive; that is, 21, 22, 23 and 24.
7. Excluding some or most, as from membership or participation: an exclusive club.
8. Catering to a wealthy clientele; expensive: exclusive shops.
9. Linguistics. Of, relating to, or being a first person plural pronoun that excludes the addressee, such as we in the sentence Chris and I will be in town tomorrow, so we can stop by your office.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=exclusively

Although at the moment the feds collect taxes on behalf of the provinces, it doesn’t have to be this way, and if I’m not mistaken Quebec doesn’t allow the feds to collect their taxes. The number 1 reason that I’m familiar with for this action is expense, as it is cheaper to have one tax collecting office rather than 11.

May 18th, 2006, 07:20 AM

Yea, Québec does its own tax collection. And has always done so.

May 18th, 2006, 07:34 AM

An example for the rest of the provinces to follow.

June 17th, 2006, 12:38 AM

Vicious - I have all of your CDs too and have been to every one of your concerts.

Um... kidding. It read like "online groupie" for a second.

All of my posts? How many weeks did it take you given that they all have sources that are meant to be researched, like 300+ page documents? Or even not. If you read one full post with an open mind, I hope you found it to be informative; by the sources, not "me".

Thank you for noticing.

You forgot the quite expensive fake "monarchy" of the Canadas, and hundreds of regional/municipal governments, in the "GTA thing" but, much worse, via the Association of Municipalities of "Ontario" (AMO). The hate-fest is afoot everywhere and it causes the same back. You also forgot the "news" media. [Um, not that you "forgot": I just have no use for any of it as is, or around the ridiculous "monarchy" crap; no use at all.]

But angry at political "parties"? It means being angry at a concept, which didn't conceive itself and I don't know (or care; history isn't irrelevant around politics, it's how the new union constitution and economic charters were created, by using the only real foresight we have: hundreds of years of hindsight and political organizations have not only outlived their usefulness; they never had any use other than to keep the pesky unwanted out of politics in the first place) who did conceive it and they're long dead and irrelevant. It's a simple matter of mass marketing to destroy worthless, medieval concepts. Um, not that this is mass marketing or any marketing. It's just reality and not from "my" perspective but from the perspective of those who do matter and have published books and papers and have done quite a lot of research and made many of the results public knowledge: much in the way that all science is public knowledge. One has to be able to comprehend it, which is why the "news" media doesn't bother with most of it.

The people who work for "the news" are not very bright themselves and when they don't understand (and they understand very little) they assume that, as with every arrogant "institution" around, that no one else will understand, which makes writing stories rather difficult and convincing the businesses that put food on their tables to take ads out regarding their stories, given that it's all the "news" media does: sells stories to sell ad space for as much money as possible so that investors make as much money as possible and the businesses that take out ad space make as much money as possible. It's nothing but marketing on marketing on more marketing. If enough people "believe" that the sky is green with purple polka dots, whatever idiocy, "the news" media will capitalize on it, will write the stories, supply "the proof" and the idiots will consume the marketing of the stories and will either buy a new couch, fridge, car, toothbrush, laundry detergent -- the marketing IN the "news" media is much more interesting than the stories they tell.

But that's another book or ten. It's just totally intertwined with "political parties", using the terms they use, not questioning much of anything, basically aimless and brainless; other than around marketing, which is the same with political "parties".

Take a look at what is being advertised (marketed), where and think about why, around newspapers (the ads aren't just randomly placed) or the lack of ads around certain stories. Analyze, use your heads, think, notice what's really going on. Why are newspaper sections called what they are? It's not a fluke, it's all very carefully plotted. You may notice that whenever reality is printed in a newspaper, something that tends to disturb the average idiot, that there are no ads in sight. The purpose is to "lure" you into the various sections ("you" being a demographic group, much like lab rats; constantly being studied to see what stimuli you respond to and don't; and there is no avoiding it in Toronto due to the amount of market research that goes on here due to the demographics being all over the place, unlike any other city. If you can market in Toronto and pull it off, you can market in any major city and pull it off; other than in Montreal and so much market research goes on in Toronto that it has to be marketed itself, which makes people rather "market savvy", which makes it a tough market that many a multinational and transnational corporation has not only stumbled in, but has fallen in, to the astonishment of marketers, which is why 80 percent of the top marketing firms in the Canadas are parked in Toronto; and "in the Canadas" doesn't mean from the Canadas).

At present there is nothing to politics but marketing. And it's falling apart because their marketing, no matter what they try, doesn't fly in the major cities because people in the major cities are exposed to so much marketing, and market research (which is like taking a course in marketing without even noticing) that nothing is working anymore. Alas. They fall back to the hicks in the rural regions who aren't very market savvy about much of anything, don't know much of anything other than what they need to know, really aren't even part of this planet in this century and all electoral systems are slanted towards rural areas getting more representation than urban centers, which the last confederate election proved very well considering that the Hick Party was shut out of every major urban center in the Canadas, where 80% of the population of the Canadas live, but still managed to squeak out a medieval "minority British parliamentary government".

The top five city-regions in the Canadas, Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa-Hull/Gatineau, Calgary, have over 50% of the population/markets of the Canadas and are worth over 60 percent of the GDP if the Canadas and pay over 60% of all of the revenues the confederates have to operate with.

But they have only 42 percent of the federal electoral districts (FEDs) of the Canadas. And it's not the "areas" that are making all of the money (suburban sprawl is the most insanely expensive waste of money around), it's the urban cores that make all of the real money.

One in every six jobs in the Canadas is in the Toronto city limits. As in, create five more "municipalities" of Toronto (with one city hall, 25 of 103 "provincial" districts, 25 of 308 confederate districts) and you have every single job in the Canadas, but nowhere near the gross economic output, let alone real GDP minus "provincial" and confederate handouts/subsidies. And the rest is rather over-represented and with political "families" around (akin to organized crime "families" that extort money to "take care of" the people; but they're more like medieval churches; about the same thing) and Toronto has zero "provincial" and confederate representation.

Its alleged MPPs and MPs don't represent the interests of Toronto because it's impossible to market any of it to the totally oblivious rest of the Ontarios and Canadas, on top of it being politically incorrect due to the hatred the rest of the Ontarios and Canadas have for Toronto. "Our" elected MPPs and MPs side with "Ontario" and "Canada"; not with Toronto. "Ontario" MPs side with "the federation" (Ottawa, rather strange given that its right on our land in the South Ontarios); not with "Ontario".

But what are they supposed to do when there is no such thing as "Ontario" on any level by any stretch of reality, other than in medieval scriptures? "Ontario" is stuck (in a medieval myth that is only reality due to the oblivious "believers" out there) between an alleged singular "Quebec" with a strange (hypocritical) "separatist" party in the medieval FEDERAL "Commons" where no one has anything in common? and has the mythical singularity of "western Canada" on the other side of it, and they all bitch and scream bloody murder over anything and mostly nothing (in reality), as do the Atlantic Canadas, with less in population than the "municipality" of Toronto alone, but in FOUR "provinces" with four mouthy spoiled little brat "premiers" because that's what the handful of people in the Atlantic Canadas want, so it's what they elect.

No one has any intention of trying to unite some "Ontario thing" that doesn't exist, but with 93 percent of the population in the south, there is no need to even bother trying to unite anything but the South Ontarios against the onslaught the rest of the Canadas has been vomiting at it forever: mainly due to political "families/clergies" (extremely ugly "parties" that I would never attend) and realities around marketing to what has to be the most ignorant and most worthless bunch of sloths on the planet: the "believers" in the insults of political families/clergies and massive insults to the words medieval political systems and structures that is "Canada".

It's totally beyond belief. Ignoring the ridiculous pre-election circus act marketing "campaigns", the election system itself is busted into a million pieces, it's totally hopeless, let alone everything (not much of anything in reality other than a bunch of grandstanding/marketing by political "families/sects/clergies") in between alleged elections.

Source: Fair Vote Canada -ELECTION 2006 - THE PRESIDENT'S BLOG

We can all be thankful that the NDP Lunatics didn't pick up 59 seats/votes and that the Greens picked up 0, but what isn't "antiquated/medieval" around "Canadian" insults to the words political systems and structures? Fair Vote Canada is focused on one issue and has made a fair bit of progress, but the whole structure of the Canadas is a joke. "Ontario" my butt. It should be at least 5 provinces, in the south, 3 on the Quebec end of the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, the Atlantic Canadas should be merged into one province with the rest of the Quebecs, Saskitoba/Maniwatchewan should be one province merged with the north Ontarios and the Lower Mainland-south Vancouver Island should be another province, which leaves the north BCs to become part of the Yukon. Just for starters. Then get rid of political "families/clergies", only independents with actual qualifications to act as arbitrators for the district they, not just represent but expand, form alliances with other independent professional arbitrators who will all have to know their districts inside-out and upside-down, but most importantly, how to get them right-side up, per issue. Then the alliances disband, what whatever issue is dealt with/legislation is created and passed, and move on to the next issue, form up alliances that make sense, get that issue taken care of and on we go.

But the structure, just the basics, provinces and territories and city-states, have to have about the same populations, and merging the Atlantic Canadas up with the rest of the Quebecs (everyhthing above) would give it about the population of the Province and City-State of Toronto, the former "municipality". And representation by population around the union or any other level is medieval and makes no sense at all.

How much say a provincial/city-region's Executive branch (via its arbitrators) should be all union "taxes" (revenues to cover everything, Employment Equalization on equalization on equalization on more equalization premiums, which has to be fixed, CPP/QPP, more like the South Ontario City-State unemployment insurance and old age pension; certainly not the "Canada" thing; come up with your own plans and pay for them yourselves) has, around paying for union services, is not how much it pays in what become union receipts to the union treasury (if we can even maintain a single economic union, which is unlikely) minus all union expenditures back to all city-states, provinces, territories, colonies: and I do mean all, with no exceptions ever) is how much the vote of your Executive branch (via your arbitrators who have get at least a 75% majority on everything, which is what will guide the restructuring) gets.

When the Atlantic Canadas and Outer Quebecs are merged into one province, they'll discover that they pay zero in union receipts and get far more back in union disbursements per capita than they pay out, as with the province of Saskitoba and the Outer/north Ontarios. So they will have zero say, no votes around what constitutes totally essential union services, or setting budgets to pay for union services -- because they pay less than nothing. Put your money where your mouths are.

A section of the new union constitution measures 100% of all own-source revenues from every colony, territory, province and city-state; which isn't a city, it's a state built around a city that couldn't exist without the city, such as the South Ontarios, which couldn't exist(according to every economic and fiscal analyst who's done research and published papers on the topic) with the global reach of the Toronto global city-region.

Divide by the appropriate population estimates (October 1 is mid-year for government fiscal years) to get revenues per capita on average in the Canadas, draw a line across your chart to represent that, then add in own-source revenues per capita for every city-state, province, territory, colony and if they're over the line of average, then union taxes have to be paid. If not then no union taxes are paid; nor are any union disbursements made.

"Y'all" can take your own hatred and advice of "Ontario" and the South Ontarios and Toronto for once: cut services and/or raise more own-source taxes if you can't afford to pay for whatever. We'll probably have a union natural disaster relief fund, and will send experts out to evaluate real damages and project own-source revenues and deduct them from any handouts and that's about it: other than what "we" deem to be totally essential union services, based on how much revenues we're generating to cover our own expenses, get our taxes in line with comparable economies in the U.S., but we have to expand revenues for union intelligence/counter-intelligence/counter-terrorism, etc., expand union military expenditures, particularly National Guard, real federal law enforcement (no RCMP, no "Royal" anything, for provincial or regional or local (in provinces or city-states), just real federal law enforcement: the rest "y'all" get to pay for out of your own revenues for the first time ever outside the Windsor-Quebec City corridor), we have to pay off our own debts, then the union debt, our foreign embassies/consulates, fees for the various international organizations we want to belong to, maybe Canada Post will survive as a singularity, but I don't and can't see why.

We could cut our postage expenses in half at least in the Windsor-Quebec City corridor by splitting Canada Post up; in structure and postage fees. There are more than enough flights between Toronto and Montreal to/from Vancouver to keep air going between us and whatever the Lower Mainland-south Vancouver city-state calls itself, to maintain the same postage fees with them, and probably Calgary and Edmonton too, for the little Calgary-Edmonton corridor, which may or may not be turned into a city-state. It depends what happens to the economic union.

That's reality and is the level that "Canadians" (in the Windsor-Quebec City corridor and Lower Mainland-south Vancouver Island anyway) have to be made aware of after dummying it up for the oblivious masses. Everything is ancient history in the Canadas. No amount of bandages are ever going to accomplish anything but making things worse, and particularly for the South Ontarios with their own revenues; as always, as usual.

So nothing can or will remain "as always, as usual". We could install and pay for some puppet "federal" government, but for what reason? "City-states" have the powers of republics, but are in an economic union; or more than likely two economic unions, which economic and fiscal analysts and soothsayers have been predicting since the "U.S." (economic regions that matter; and even moreso today) - Windsor-Quebec City corridor free trade agreement.

The South Ontario city-state pays for 43 percent of all federal expenses. And very few of them are federal. Even under the existing mess of constitutions and other British hearsay/"traditions" that isn't even in writing (like non-confidence motions), it's up to the provinces to pay for health care, social services, primary education, post-secondary education, all the crap the confederates have weaseled their less than worthless arses into (which is where their heads are and particularly with political "families/sects/cults/clergies" around and utterly ridiculous pre-election circus act marketing "campaigns" that should boggle the minds of anyone who has had to get a real job, fill out an application and/or submit a resume/cover letter, then was interviewed by the employer, not the other way around, forcing businesses to come to events "we" stage with our friends and families clapping on demand at ridiculous shows).

Aside from paying good private sector auditors to keep a very close eye on totally essential union services, to ensure that they're spending within the budgets we set for them, and the union departments/agencies, etc. that are in charge of the (reformed) union services, all our Executive branches have to do is set annual budgets (with 75% or better majorities of our arbitrators, so us) for the union services.

We not only won't need a ridiculous federal show on confederate mound, but it would be completely unable to function (which is reality right now and has been for quite a while) within the new systems and structures.

"The inherent problem with proportional representation is that no one is willing to admit that they don't know what it is." [Let alone understand how it works and how many different systems there are to be custom-tailored to whatever structures/levels of jurisdiction. But it's the same with "the" equalization transfer and the mess of "transfer systems" in general and everything else political. And "no one" most certainly includes the "news" media boneheads, who do nothing but sell stories to sell ad space for as much money as possible, but are as dim-witted and out-of-touch as the political "families/clergies" are. Freedom to mass market total falsehoods to the people is not a freedom that anyone should be interested in upholding.]

Source: Lots more at Fair Vote Canada, which has made quite a bit of progress; in one little area that may mean something someday. But only after the insults to the words medieval (political) "systems" and "structures" (all existing politicians included) are replaced with reality, facts, the truth.

Fair Vote Canada used to have a much better Web site with lots more facts on it; or maybe I just can't find them because they've screwed the site up by not having them in my (your, whomever's) face right on the home page.

In the 2000 election, I'm pretty sure it was about 50%, because they used the western Canadas and Ontarios, one with "about half" the other with "about 50%", same things, different measures, but I don't have the time to find out exactly (feel free; anyone), the source above used to state it right on the home page, certainly less than 60% of the voters in the alleged singularity (lie, even in geographical reality) of "western Canada" did not vote for the reform-alliance clergy, but the political map was almost solid reform-alliance. I can't even remember the color they used.

For certain, half of some alleged singularity of (a lie) "Ontario" voters did not vote "liberal" in the 2000 confederate election but the political map was almost solid red; mainly due to the "western" reformers splitting the middle-conservative votes up. It's kinda why they pretended to "merge" together. And no matter what political "family" had been in for more than 10 years, it would have got a minority in the 2004 election and would have lost in the last election.

But surprisingly, not by much given that the NDP and Greens sap votes off the "liberals", which is why they should change their name to the New Progressive Conservative Party of Canada. Fiscal conservatism requires a progressive outlook on this planet in this century, and social progression is mandatory in knowledge-based economies, which the Hick Party/"conservatives" are against, as all hicks always are (they're afraid of all change and just about everything else due to isolation as opposed to those who live in cities like Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver who are exposed to thousands of strangers from all over the planet, and "sub-cultures", every day. Paranoid delusions are easy to market to rural hicks who don't know any better).

It's the people who keep "believing" in any of them, and the ridiculous medieval insult to the words systems and structures, for reasons that I don't care to hear, because I've heard them all over and over again, every time a "new" (same old, same old, but pretending to be "new"/changed; with "believers" from another century sucking up marketing/words as opposed to being objective and finding out what reality is) political family/sect/clergy wins an elected dictatorship or "minority" trying to get an elected dictatorship, this and that, fodder for the ignorant masses, are going to change and make everything better.

But here we are in the 21st century with insults to medieval political systems and structures, which is much more painfully obvious in the cities and could not possibly be more obvious from Toronto.

I'm a capitalist (not that it should have to be stated but it always does around forums like this: not entirely and only and always; I also donate money and time to charities, no one I know is an extremist, in reality, which doesn't involve "Canadiana" [Canadian political/marketing propaganda] around any extent around every or even any issue) and can hardly blame those who run the political families/cults/sects/clergies for capitalizing on ignorance.

It's what all marketers do around mass marketing and the only way to fix it, to avoid getting every political issue watered down to the point where it does nothing but piss everyone off, is to restructure the Canadas (particularly the South Ontarios, Windsor-Quebec City corridor) using economic<->socio-economic/demographic measures that relate to the most important political priorities around: taxation and spending and in the real economic regions of the Canadas that pay all of the bills and far too much more over nothing but outrageous lies, which includes everything. No legislation is of any use unless there's some way to enforce it; which is part of taxation and spending.

Political organizations ("parties/families/clergies/cults/sects") have to go. Almost everything has to go, and once that's done, what's left has to be reformed with a weighted "put your money where your mouths are" voting system, which is another book or two to explain properly but few here can read, so it's irrelevant.

No offense intended, but I can make make nothing more out of the comment. It makes no sense to me at all. You sound like a confused "believer" who thinks that everyone has to be a "believer" in Canadiana lies. And you seem to think that you're above them because you seem to believe in the "western reform bowel movement". And you're a very strange "Ontarian" (you do know which province Toronto is in?) below with "your" as opposed to "our" and such, but well; we'll get to that.

Even if I did care about political "families/clergies", voted for any candidate but the only one worth voting for, "None of the above", or were a "believer" in the continued insanity of the "Canadian" political systems/structures as is; what's the conflict with the above? I'm from Toronto, not whatever some alleged singular "western movement" was, and is still trying to be. And is going to fail miserably other than in the Lower Mainland-south Vancouver Island economic region because it's compatible with our economic regions and the rest of the Canadas is not.

And you'd have to define what you think "liberal" and "conservative" mean and how someone can be one or the other 100% of the time, on 100% of the issues, in a singular mess like the Canadas; or in neighborhoods as complex as the neighborhoods in Toronto and other cities are. It's why political "families/sects/clergy" have to be destroyed; just for starters. Who wants their political employees-representatives being dictated to by some crazy political organization? No single anything can market toothpaste to all of the Ontarios with one marketing strategy, or all of the Quebecs or all the Windsor-Quebec City corridor: And all politicians do is market (legislation but mostly taxation and spending priorities/budget legislation. They can go home after that, but some level of sanity is required). It's a systemic and structural problem that causes all of the marketing (policies) to be watered down to the point that they're all worthless to everyone.

Even if the Stampede Town "reformers" (which means Liberals in this country; my country, the original Canada) had been advocating (other than around union services, here and there) separate representation for "the west", which is all they ever did, the Bloc on one side, the "western reformers" on the other side, why would anyone in the Ontarios vote for them? I might vote for the Bloc if they ran candidates here, but they don't. [They actually believe that Canadians are insanely over-taxed, and Quebecers too, and no kidding, and they even believe that the "federal" insults to the words systems and structures are broken beyond repair. And they are right. Well, they're quite socialist from my perspective but that's their own business as long as they can pay for it and we're not going to do anything but agree with that; and offer to take on a good share of what they owe on the union debt as well. We already do it, but it's not formal yet. Ontario owes zero to this "federation". It is the one and only jurisdiction that has always paid more into the "federation" than it's taken out of it. Everything else has given less and taken out more, by hundreds of billions of dollars just since 1996-97 from the Ontarios.]

They have no interest in the Ontarios in the "western reform movement". They represent south Alberta and the exploitation of the north Albertas (and First Nations/Aboriginal peoples, because "they" are in their way in the Albertas sitting on quite a lot of money and they're not giving it up; and good for them and we will also be helping them a great deal; to keep the profits for themselves for once, which is all the "western reform" movement wants anyway: to keep all of the profits of fluking out with sh.tloads of bitumen, which wasn't suitable for asphalt before we showed up with the Americans), not the western Canadas, plural, let alone the Ontarios or "central Canadas" by which they mean Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal, but what Ottawa has to do with anything is beyond anyone here. All they do is plunder the Ontarios and Toronto is oriented to the South Ontarios and worthy economic regions of the U.S., not the rest of the Ontarios or Canadas and it's the same with the Montreal area, and Ottawa area, on the business level where it matters. Political issues out of confederate mound, not the City of Ottawa, are to-be-of-zero-concern to Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver. The hicks can have the "Ontario" and confederate feds and the "Quebec feds" and the "BC feds" and Albertans seem pleased with their mess, so that's fine.

But not on our land it's not. And that's going to be a lesson to the Canadas. Ottawa is sitting right in the middle of the Windsor-Quebec City corridor. Off to the north (due to invasions by the Americans and whatnot; way inshore after the British burned their White House down from here. They never did retaliate. But they'll be happy to now, and we'll help them quite a lot, though the opposite will be reality; just the Windsor-Quebec City corridor against the "Canadian" confederates; and probably the Albertas and maybe even the BCs: Lions are you? And they play were, in Port Rupert? We shall see).

You appear to be a bit confused. I have no clue or care what "a Liberal" is (with a capital L no less) because alleged "Conservatives" with a capital C have overspent, expanded government, kissed Quebec's bum, run up deficits, made bad deals for the Canadas (and certainly the Albertas; Klein should be with the NDP, around fiscal everything), have been generally oblivious and stupid, corrupt, have lied, so what's the difference?

Who happens to be the better liars at the moment and haven't been in power for 13 years but created "scandals" anyway? What else is new since, oh, 1774.

The only scandal in the Canadas I care about at the moment is the $11 billion the "Ontario" feds stole from the City of Toronto last year alone; half of the $22 billion horizontal "fiscal imbalance"/scam, by far the biggest scam going in the Canadas, which the confederates ran on the Ontarios last year; and the "Ontario" feds have always run about half of the deficit the confederate feds leave them with on the City of Toronto, so they are as good as dead, figuratively speaking -- both the "Ontario" and confederate feds. Party on, who cares what party any of them are with? They will do as they're told to get themselves out of our faces or may suffer unfortunate accidents.

Even the NDP claims to be fiscally conservative. Which political cult is telling people that they're going to overspend and run up deficits/debts and make people's lives miserable? It's all they do, ever, so who cares? The confederates are already self-destructing for some strange reason.

"Me" is irrelevant. But in research results that anyone can easily understand, they are one and the same. How can the two possibly be separated and come across as being rational? I take $50 more from you than you spend and your spending per capita is below the Canadian average, around everything, so you run a deficit of $50 billion a year but your economy grows by that so it's really not "extra" money being taken. While everything else screams the same -- that their revenues on this and that shouldn't be counted as own-source revenues to be applied against all transfer payments. Humans are natural resources and humans are our most important asset in the cities of the South Ontarios, so anything that human resources generate will not be considered as income to the "Ontario" government. It will have $0 income, which would bankrupt the country in a month.

And "I" did not say that the entire transfer system should be abolished. I like the model of the Conference Board of Canada (IRPP, Ontario Chamber of Commerce, Canadian Chamber of Commerce, Institute for Competitiveness and Prosperty, etc.; combined because they all make good and quite valid points, oh and the Atlantic [Canadas] Institute of Market Studies also agrees that the unbelievable mess of "transfer systems" has done nothing but harm the Atlantic Canadas, while pointing out that the main culprits are the provincial politicians the people of the Atlantic Canadas elect; not I. I get one vote of over 50,000 in my little district of Toronto) of one simple transfer called equalization that actually does what it says it does and also takes reality and basic common sense into account: that it is not a "federal" program because the confederates are nothing but a big fat liability without a paperclip or staple without the revenues they extort. And we're about to prove it to them, because they're all too high on themselves, have forgotten who employs them, pays their salaries, pays for their toilet paper and everything else -- so they are going to be slapped very hard upside the head, and will not recover from it.

I, on the other hand, will have a very big smile on my face, even in the mirror.

With them out of the picture, union taxes will be crystal clear and what pays them will be crystal clear and if the South Ontarios agree to transfer its revenues to another jurisdiction instead of looking after our own needs (there are never any "extra" revenues; "extra" revenues go towards tax cuts once we have everything else possible and no provincial or municipal debts) then it will only be done based on sound economic plans that come with LOTS of strings attached and in loans, not grants.

Nothing is worth investing in if it can't even pay for its startup costs. That does not include the absolute best educations as possible for as little money as possible no matter what in all circumstances in every region of the Canadas (but Toronto first, however the pecking order of the South Ontarios works out second, and pecking order will be revenues generated). If Saskitoba/Maniwatchewan thinks that it needs some highway then it can pay for it on its own or can submit an application for a union loan, for about $500,000 to cover the costs of evaluating the application, which will be processed by the private sector as with any other loan. If it makes any sense, they'll get the loan at 0% interest. If not, they'll be out $500,000 or so, which will force them to use their BRAINS for a change. No refunds.

And too bad if the "have-not-brains" jurisdictions don't like it. Beggars can't be choosers and we have more than enough of our own problems to take care of with our revenues.

The mess of "transfers" is what is responsible for the fiscal scam/theft (and is also what the newspaper article that started this thread was about), by far the biggest scam in the Canadas and one of the largest on the planet, so of course it needs to be scrapped, but that's only one reason why it has to be scrapped along with everything else.

Read these for starters:

“Help that Hurts.” - Atlantic [Canadas] Institute for Market Studies (AIMS)

“How to Fix Equalization to Encourage Growth.” - Atlantic [Canadas] Institute for Market Studies (AIMS)

If they interest you, make you think, go ahead and take a look at their research. It's not perfect and they're wrong on many counts, but more than enough is true to at least make one scratch the forehead. Without a doubt, the mess of transfer systems has done incredible and hopefully not irreversible damage to the Atlantic Canadas. The general idea is supposed to be to get everything running on all pistons but it's a sick joke between the "provincial" governments of the Atlantic Canadas, rather over-represented, and the confederates that's been going on for quite a very long time.

I would add to the above reports that the governments (political "families/clergies") the people of the Atlantic Canadas elect have only one objective, hammered into their heads by the politicians they keep electing over and over again (regardless of any changing of the clowns): "must get as much money out of 'federation Canada' as possible; and especially 'Ontario' and whatever other, if any, jurisdiction that happens to actually be making money".

"Your own" and you claim to be from Ontario? Which Ontario and what are you doing here if you're so "sorry" to be here that you have to stick "Ontario, Sorry" in your location, then claim that as an Ontarian, you have nothing to do with some fiscal house that I have to get in order?

We'll be more than happy to "emulate" Alberta. It gets about 40% more of its own revenues back than we do from the confederates. Don't think so? How many times do I have to post the facts in this one forum alone, right from the horse's mouth?

And ya, BC on "equalization" welfare handouts, it's collected $2,028 million since 1999-00 (Finance Canada: Equalization Program). We should try that in the Ontarios too. We'll be doing a lot more than "trying."

Even though it's cheating in BC's favor (it did not have the population it has in the earliest mid fiscal year, October 1, population, 2004, I have handy; which is not what its population, so per capita equalization welfare handouts were, in 2002-03 or 2001-02 or 2000-01 or 1999-00). Its October 1, 2004 population was 4,215,695. $2,028,000,000 / 4,215,695 = $481.059469435051634 per capita.

Ontario's October 1, 2004 population was 12,454,171 * 481.059469435051634 = 5,991,196,893.51340644 or 5 billion, 991 million, 196 thousand and 894 dollars; or $5,991 million, which would easily have paid our deficit off, "Ontarian".

But we don't get our fair per capita share of anything back out of "these federation" and never have. "Ontario" is the one and only jurisdiction that has always paid more into the "federations" than it's taken out of it. Nothing else; they have all taken out more than they've put in, so can pay the federal debt off on their own, other than that it would bankrupt every jurisdiction in the Canadas if the South Ontarios did that. Who knows if anyone in the South Ontarios will give a crap when the sh.t hits the fan.

"Ontario" generates over the national average in revenues per capita, spends less than the national average in own-source revenues per capita and only has a deficit because TWENTY TWO THOUSAND MILLION DOLLARS on average have been stolen from "Ontario" by the confederates, every year since the Harris Conservatives were elected. Only $2 billion a year was stolen by the confederates when the Rae NDP Lunatics broke a world record for any subnational government, anywhere, overspending by over $10 billion a year for 5 years.

In the late 1980s (Peterson Liberals, then Peterson Liberals/Rae NDP Lunatics in a minority, then perhaps what should be done to the Canadaa; a total fluke that surprised the NDP Lunatics as much as it did us, they won a majority dictatorship for the first and last time ever in the Ontarios in 1990) and early 1990s, the confederates were only taking about $2 billion a year more out of the Ontarios than they should have been.

As soon as we were able to wipe the "Ontario" NDP Lunatics off the political map and elect the Harris Conservatives (and prior to the late 1980s and early 1990s) the confederates started to plunder more and more and more from the Ontarios, right when it needed this ridiculous "federation" to LAY OFF and close the $2 billion extra/year they were stealing.

They did the exact opposite, while the Harris Conservatives were dealing with the $67.4 billion (more than the entire GDP of most provinces) "accumulated budget deficit" the Rae NDP Lunatics ran up in only 5 years, in the only way "Ontario" can and ever has been able to deal with such fiscalimity, but which nothing else has to do: cut provincial spending and the biggest ticket items are healthcare and education in the cities (particularly Toronto, which got half of its schools and hospitals closed, and worse than that, which cannot be done in the rural and very sparsely populated norths around regional schools and hospitals).

Instead of closing the existing $2 billion fiscal "gap/imbalance"/scam the Rae NDP Lunatics screamed bloody murder over, the confederates stole an extra TWENTY THOUSAND MILLION a year from "Ontario" (south, as always ... it also has to pay for its norths and plenty in the souths) while it was slashing and burning every public expense in sight to get the deficit the Rae NDP Lunatics ran up, but it still managed to balance its budget by 1999-2000, as promised by the Harris Conservatives (along with calling an election after 4 years; and they won again and the NDP lost official party status in the Ontarios, but Harris raised the bar, the minimum number of seats a political "family" has to have to get official party status -- because they sap votes off the Ontario Liberals with a big fat red capital L) and to run modest surpluses (due to rather large unexpected economic growth; "Ontario" went from the verge of bankruptcy to leading the G-7 and OECD in economic growth, productivity and just about everything else by 1999-2000) but the CONFEDERATES took all of the extra revenues to ensure that the Common Sense Revolution of the Harris Conservatives failed -- or it would have turned the Canadas right-side up by now; meaning Ontario, Alberta and Super-Gordo's biggest hero was and is, guess who? Mike Harris (and Klein for some unknown reason; BC/Alberta socialism I suppose) who he sought advice from and Harris told him to cut harder, faster and deeper and he was right.

By doing so, it leaves the "news" media and confederates completely overwhelmed, with no time to plot and scheme, no time to analyze much of anything, because too much is going on at once. So that is the next strategy, and the Canadas isn't going to know what the hell is going on when the South Ontarios and for some mysterious reason, the other end of the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, probably the Albertas, maybe even BCs, totally overwhelm the confederates (which is already happening for those who haven't noticed) that they just magically self-destruct and then "something" has to be done about it and the new union constitution (which is circulating around universities that matter and has been for at least 3 years to my knowledge -- you can always count on the "news" media to keep y'all informed about nothing though, because nothing is what you want to hear, it's what sells the ad space that puts food in the bellies of "news corporations" but what pays for those ads? Political churches (medieval "institutions") have no money at all, they are, well it's a bit of a double-whammy, because corporations, small local to multi-national to the almighty transnationals with no country they call "home" because they have corporate headquarters all over the planet, like the ExxonMobils, Wal-Marts, even the "Canadian" financial institutions, conveniently located in Toronto for the most part, have made impressive gains globally, the "big three" in transportation equipment, but the South Ontarios also have Honda, Hyndai, Toyota plants and out-produced Michigan just in vehicle output last year, which means all of the North Americas, but all manufacturing combined was only worth about 20% of the gross economic output of the Ontarios last year and primary industries, without deducting subsidies and other handouts, were worth less than 2 percent of the Ontario GDP last year, because knowledge-based, knowledge-reliant service industries were responsible for over 60 percent of the GDP of the Ontarios last year and in 2004, 2003, etc., and they're the ones paying the big money, finance, insurance and real estate in particular [the largest industry in the GTA so the Ontarios last year in gross output] for the ad space the "news" media relies upon -- or they go bankrupt. We can and will also withhold all "taxes" from anything, on the business level, to any government and in the South Ontarios, cut their power, communications, seize let alone freeze our assets that they think are theirs, on down to municipal services, no freshwater supply, we'll block our municipal sewage systems up where they couple with OUR public buildings, and stop picking their garbage up; for starters and the "news" media will do what it's told to do or will go bankrupt due to no advertising revenues).

The "fiscal imbalance" and other crap the "news" media really doesn't bother with much, will (already are in Toronto; again) mass market against every government, will print and talk about what they're told to or will be wiped off the TSX and any NY exchanges, because what is happening in the Canadas and Ontarios is no joke to businesses in the U.S., who sell more to Ontario (south) than to any other state or country on the planet, including the entire EU and Japan, and the only real markets in the Canadas that they care about are in the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, the #1 importer of American goods and services on the planet and their businesses (with politicians in their back pockets) don't like what "these federation" are doing to their most important markets on the planet. 37 states of the U.S. sell more goods and services to the markets in the Windsor-Quebec City corridor (which, other than via Vancouver, in turn market/sell them to the rest of the 40% of the markets in the Canadas under Canadian brand names, because you're all very anti-American; particularly in the west, than they do do any other state or country (or union, the E.U.) on the planet.

It's not "just" the Windsor-Quebec City corridor against the rest of the Canadas, against any business that doesn't comply with collecting but not paying the "provincial" or confederate feds a cent. The U.S. is fed up with the plundering of the South Ontarios, on the business level where it matters (and where things are organized that no press releases are made about; yet, to any major extent because no one wants riots; they're not good for business, so the oblivious masses have to be spoon-fed information from the "news" media in the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, the cities and towns that matter; or they get no money for advertising, or the businesses that do try to give them money for ads are made very uncomfortable) and it will never come down to actually having to wipe stocks and government treasury bonds off the TSX and NY exchanges, let alone having to plug up their sewers, cut their power, communications, etc., because the threat is so huge (nothing that the rest of the Canadas could even try to pull off: but could certainly join in on and all that matters around that are the Albertas and Vancouver region; the rest of the Canadas might as well not exist: with regard to overthrowing governments, the entire mess of the Canadas as is, but with so much muscle that if they try to fight, there will be riots and the stupid politicians will all end up very dead; and they're not so stupid that they don't know that either, particularly the "Ontario" feds sitting on prime real estate in downtown Toronto of all places and the confederate feds, in the middle of the Windsor-Quebec City corridor and surrounded by the 4th largest city-region in the Canadas: Ottawa-Hull, right after Vancouver, which has more than enough people to rip confederate mound and anyone/anything in it, to shreds, blow it to some medieval hell where it belongs).

But that's not going to happen, because it would disrupt NAFTA business, let alone "Canadian" business. Politicians love to take credit for nothing they have the faintest clue about. They know not how to create real jobs in the private sector that general real revenues for them to extort. They know how to give speeches and such, and will take credit for the birth of a woman's baby, any woman, claiming that without them, birth wouldn't exist (taxes for birth certificates wouldn't exist), which makes them the perfect tools (no pun, they are tools) to install the new union constitution and economic charters, disband themselves by law, take credit for all of it then never be seen or heard from again; which no one is telling them.

And they will "scuffle" first, they already are and all they're doing is wasting more of our time and money, and right on our land no less. [They never did get around to setting a political District up.] A lot of that is simply what the U.K. has observed about the "Canada" thing. The Windsor-Quebec City corridor (W-QCC; as defined by Toronto and Montreal at the economic<->socio economic/demographic level and the supply v. demand level and the rural v. urban level, not as any "provincial" or confederate morons define it) has 60% of the population of the Canadas on less than 5% of its land area, every business that matters in the Canadas is in headquartered in it, mostly the GTA and Montreal areas, without which there are no "Ontario" or "Quebec" anythings, the two most important (and due to the north-south relationships between businesses in the city-regions of the W-QCC, east-west doesn't matter anymore; there are no markets worth mentioning in the rest of the Canadas compared to the markets we have access to in the U.S.) "provincial legislatures" are in it (trying to maintain an E-W [east-west] and far too N-S [north-south] load of marketing crap for anyone around here to believe) and the federal government parks its less than worthless E-W marketing BS arses right in the middle of it, with no land claims at all.

But where are you that you could agree with me on scrapping everything? I don't think I've ever posted this much information ever in any public forum and anyone is free to do the usual, pull their ignorance out and prove how ignorant they are. You're either in Toronto or you are part of the problem, you are responsible for the $11 billion the "Ontario" feds stole from the City of Toronto last year alone, to try to make up for the $22 billion the confederates stole from the Ontarios last year.

"Ontario" has always carried far too much of the tax burden of the Canadas and Toronto has always carried far too much of the tax burden of the Ontarios as a result. So where the hell are you to be telling some "us" that "we" should get "our" fiscal house in order? I don't care if you're in Mississauga; you are not paying your fair share into the Ontarios or Canadas. Nothing is compared to the City of Toronto. You all get far more of your own revenues back per capita versus the "municipality of type City, hence City of Toronto. Not one person anywhere else in the Canadas can claim otherwise; but go to it and try if you like.

I give lectures to the ignorant. I don't take them from the ignorant.

And our money will be seen again, it'll be seen all over the freaking Canadas, and as if BC needs equalization welfare handouts.

It's using them to pay its last NDP deficit down so you're absolutely right -- Ontario should be emulating whatever the hell you think "the western" provinces are.

Source for the October 1, 2004 populations: Statistics Canada - October 1, 2004 Population of the Canadas

Shame.

"You weren't continually" meaning who and from where, "Ontarian"? You just blew your cover yet again, stupid. So where are you from, hick? You're either very confused or your location (which means your present location) is not Ontario.

And once again: if "Ontario" is supposed to slash and burn even more, while spending below the "Canadian" average in revenues per capita per province, so that it can continue to afford the ridiculous raping and plundering and negligent homicide this "federation" has caused it and is still at with its "transfers" and "surpluses" (stealth tax; anything can be done with surplus, technically, but it should go back to those who paid it), then why isn't everything else just slashing and burning provincial and territorial services and raising provincial/territorial taxes?

"Y'all" can dish it out, with one standard for the South Ontarios, but can never take your own advice while causing the fiscal problems in the South Ontarios because none of you can't take your own advice. Are you from Alberta? Did you create the place or something? I would never have guessed. Only a stupid hick Albertan would have the nerve to mouth off as you are. Or maybe you're from Ditch Town or Pikleville or Hickship "Ontario."

Why are the opposition parties of "Ontario" not agreeing with you? Why are they all united against your ludicrous statement above along with everything else that means anything in the Canadas? At least the "Ontario" NDP should be with you; what could they possibly have had to do with any deficit in the Ontarios when everyone now believes that Harris somehow caused it, when the usual, the exact opposite of what "people believe" is reality?

The $375 million surplus the Harris Conservatives (South Ontario economies) ran over-budget in fiscal 2000-01 was mailed back to every taxpayer in the Ontarios, which was quite unfair to Toronto as usual. It should have received half, then hand the rest out to the rest of the south Ontarios and give nothing to the north Ontarios, because they don't really pay taxes: they get 100% of them back and tens of millions of dollars more from the South on top of that, via the "Ontario" feds. Who/what told you that "Ontario" has continually run a deficit? It has in reality with regard to the rest of "the federation" (had never received the same per capita share of its own revenues back that other provinces and territories receive of "Ontario's" revenues) but it's still the economic engine of the Canadas by light years, it still creates more new full-time value-added non-seasonal jobs than any other jurisdiction in the Canadas comes anywhere near (in the souths; GTA, Ottawa area, Hamilton has had a rough time because the ridiculous confederates paid for Sydney Steel with our revenues, knowing full well that it would not be of any long-term benefit to the economy of Nova Scotia, which is trying to pawn the thing off, but it did its damage to Stelco and Steel Town, Hamilton may never recover from that idiocy. Short-term gain for politicians to get re-elected, and nothing more. There is NO coherent economic strategy in the Canadas other than in the South Ontarios, which cannot make the investments it has to make in education in particular due to the plundering the worthless "federation" and the rest of the Ontarios via the AMO, embarks upon to lay siege to the South Ontarios, for nothing, no markets to speak of, no economies to speak of -- the Canadas is a very pathetic little far less than worthless nothing to be stomped upon by the South Ontarios, including the other end of the Windsor-Quebec City corridor if it thinks it can make a single demand to the South Ontarios it will go bankrupt.

Nothing can compel "Ontario" to pay one cent of the federal debt. Go to it, but we deduct every billion by billion that has been plundered from "Ontario" and just going back to fiscal 1997-98 (through 2003-04), Ontario not only has no deficit but it has no provincial debt either and is owed hundreds of billions of dollars more by this "federation"/economic union.

It can't collect on that but it can and will refuse to pay one cent of the federal debt y'all ran up, not us. If the Ontarios were properly structured and were the only jurisdictions in the Canadas and had been paying out the taxes to the federal government it has been since 1867 -- "Ontario" would be in about $100 billion in debt and the federal government would have zero debt and would have about $100 billion in surplus -- from Ontario.

And as we are going to do, isolating (to say the least) the rest of the economic union, there is no choice but to kick everything outside the Windsor-Quebec City corridor (other than the Lower Mainland, and why not the Victoria area of south Vancouver Island, which is not up to them to decide even though it will appear to be so) is going to be kicked into another economic union. We have about 70 "per cent" of the worth of the economic union, the Outer Canadas, and only due to Alberta, has about 30 "per cent", which is about what your currency will be worth--if the South Ontarios agree to take on a good share of the federal debt (the usual; over 50%).

If not ... every GDP (which is not revenues) in the Canadas will be under the debt y'all owe, which means certain bankruptcy even with 100% taxation, which would simply kill your people (they wouldn't be able to buy food) let alone their puny economies.

We are holding every card in the deck other than the jokers. The rest of y'all are the jokers, to us and to the U.S.

If Quebec City thinks that it means anything politically, makes any demands that it won't automatically get as a republic (city-state) of the Canadas, but only in the south, and really only in the southwest, but we have to maintain jurisdiction over the St. Lawrence Seaway, so we will; then with no public comments at all, it will be threatened beyond belief with simple reality and will withdraw its demands. As will everything else in the Canadas, because you have no cards to play. You fail to understand who/what owns you and particularly in the Albertas.

The less we (NAFTA and the Windsor-Quebec City corridor, which is the only part of NAFTA that works as it is supposed to; creating and maintaining millions of jobs in the U.S. as they do here; the purpose of a trading bloc, while "y'all" dump primary raw/semi-processed volatile commodities on their markets, around industries that amount to basic food and shelter, which is not something the U.S. is going to give up to a bunch of hicks in the Outer Canadas, simply because they're too stupid to figure out anything else ... like where they are and which century this is.

But your own governments will be telling "y'all" all about it. Not us, in any public way that matters. Just wait, watch and learn.

If you stuck to your original parenthetical claim, which was rather vague, "scrapping everything" what's the rest of the Canadas going to do for provincial/territorial and in lots of cases, even local law enforcement if "we" in the Windsor-Quebec City corridor just stop paying for the RCMP, Ontario and Quebec Provincial Police? Hmm? Maybe we should do that too, take the "example" of the glorious "western provinces" and not even pay for our own provincial, regional and local law enforcement in the Ontarios and Quebecs -- just stick it on the "federal" bill for us to pay for anyway, as usual. You are nonsensical.

How are y'all going to pay your fair shares of the federal debt if we dump it into your treasuries and kick you into another economic union to see what world markets think your currency is worth, buried alive with debt at or over GDP?

Toronto does look at Montreal and Vancouver to point out that they aren't plundered of their municipal revenues, aren't directly funding their "provincial" governments and the federal government with municipal revenues. And that's about it, because there is nothing more to say other than, "Give us our fair share of our own revenues back now; or die". But all we're going to do is keep them. And stop anything in the Canadas that dares to try to cross us from making any financial transactions of any sort, using our rail lines, nothing moves, nothing is done without a financial transaction taking place. And we'll wipe your bonds and businesses off the TSX and NY exchanges, and will cut seize the assets of the every government in the Canadas and cut power and communications and all municipal services (garbage pick-up, snow removal, freshwater supply, sewage; just block them up where the buildings they think are theirs, sitting right on our land, which are not theirs but that we own, meet our municipal storm and sanitary sewer couplings), then march by the tens of millions.

No need to worry. When we get our revenues back, restructure this unbelievable mess, the South Ontarios won't have any problems at all paying for anything.

June 17th, 2006, 12:58 AM

Oops, I missed this.

You assume wrongly but fair enough. In real reality (economics<->socio-economics/demographics) and even around political "reality", such as it is, there is no such thing as a singular "South[ern] Ontario" either. There are the South Ontarios, fairly well-defined even in weather reports (from Toronto) and united "we" stand, divided "we" get hosed up the arse by the rest of the Ontarios and Canadas as usual, because divided "we" are and the "Ontario" and confederate feds will keep it that way for as long as they possibly can. As long as we're fighting with each other, we're not paying attention to what the "Ontario" and confederate feds are doing to cause the fighting in the first place; and then we end up short of revenues for some strange reason, at the bottom of the heap in revenues per capita in the Canadas and not because they're not generated but because most of them are stolen.

Then that keeps the politicians of the South Ontarios (GTA, everything municipal and throw in the AMO for good measure), fighting with one another instead of addressing the real source of all of the problems: the extremely grave "Ontario" and confederate feds.

The news media that usually fights it out for turf in the South Ontarios are actually starting to cooperate with one another to dribble some facts out. Nothing in "these federation" is going to keep more of our own revenues per capita than we get to keep for ourselves. That's war and the South Ontarios are slowly waking up and figuring out that we're all in the same boat, or are headed for the same cliff, one after another without totally restructuring this:
The news media that usually fights it out for turf in the South Ontarios are actually starting to cooperate with one another to dribble some facts out. Nothing in "these federation" is going to keep more of our own revenues per capita than we get to keep for ourselves. That's war and the South Ontarios are slowly waking up and figuring out that we're all in the same boat, or are headed for the same cliff, one after another without totally restructuring this:

Windsor-Québec City Corridor, 2001

Ontario Section
10,706,513 93% of Ontario's population

Québec Section
6,327,354 87% of Quebec's population

Total Population
17,033,867 57% of Canada's population

Source: Statistics Canada 2001 Census
_____

We're not all in the same boat but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at the City of Toronto and see the futures if the rest of the South Ontarios in 15, 20, years; soon enough. Half of the "Ontario" fiscal loonacy scam the confederates run on the Ontarios is run on the City of Toronto by the "Ontario" feds. And no-one but the "Ontario" feds are going to "whine" about a thing. When Toronto has no choice but to act, it certainly won't be alone (which the Ontario Chamber of Commerce has already directly warned the "Ontario" and confederate feds about with mountains of documentation that they cannot deny without declaring fraud on themselves), certainly know about it. NAFTA, the entire world will know about it. Toronto's wimpy mayor, none of them mean a thing anymore. The businesses went behind their totally worthless asses, starting with the Toronto Board of Trade, only from about 2003 on (this time), and lit fires under the asses of every "Toronto" politician, every "Ontario" politician and every confederate politician.

Now they have the "Ontario" Chamber of Commerce on their asses and the Canadian Chamber of Commerce and just about everything else that means anything in the Ontarios and Canadas.

If they want no revenues, it's fine by us. But Toronto can't just go mouthing off about things like that as irrelevant Klein can and does and every other pinheaded "provincial" and municipal political pinhead in the rest of the Ontarios and Canadas. When Toronto and the South Ontarios declare, not "ask for" or "bitch about", the game is over. And there is no way to avoid it without destroying the Canadas; as is. But in less than a week a proper 21st century system will be up, and running well enough to restructure this mess with no political boneheads in the way, to hold the first real democratic elections the planet has seen.

Alleged "governments" have to pay for jurisdiction; not just rape and plunder on down to municipal fines on by-laws that we have to pay for to prosecute with what's left of the municipal taxes Toronto city hall actually gets to keep. It might be up at almost 15% by now. It was 5% not too long ago, 5 cents on every dollar of revenues generated by the City of Toronto is what Toronto city hall got to keep. Email mayor_miller@toronto.ca to ask him why he said so, along with the Chair of the budget committee, the Toronto Board of Trade and plenty of its members, that then spread to other entities and eventually the entire Ontario Chamber of Commerce, which then spread to the entire Canadian Chamber of Commerce; due to reality, documentation of federal and provincial and municipal numbers that the "provincial" governments can declare fraud on along with the confederate feds, or admit to reality.

They're screwed either way.

And the puny $6 billion the Hick Party is trying to pass off as "funding" to the "Ontario" "Ministry" of Finance (over 5 years, in parenthesis), when $6 billion delivered to Toronto city hall tomorrow wouldn't do the trick, with promises of $6 billion more the next quarter and the next and the next for 10 years, with the 3.5 percent annual accelerator built into "the" equalization welfare handout transfer built into the revenues we don't get back from the confederates, just to Toronto city hall for starters; $6 billion tomorrow to Toronto city hall, not "Ontario" anything, with no, at least 10-year deals such as around the equalization welfare transfer we have to pay for wouldn't cut it, let alone $6 billion over 5 years and to all of the Ontarios. That's only $1.2 billion a year, which, as of January 1, 2005 amounted to (1,200,000,000 / 12,599,364 =) a whole $95.24 per person a.k.a. per capita in pittances of our own revenues back to the Ontarios, per year.

Gee. Maybe we'll be able to pay for flu shots in the Ontarios with that kind of cash coming back out of our own revenues, as always. July 1, 2006 population source for the Ontarios (and every other alleged "province" and territory): Statistics Canada - January 1, 2006 Population of Canada

Source of $6 billion (over 5 years), as though it means anything in the Ontarios, our old pal Jim Flaherty, now the confederate "Minister" of Finance. [Praise be. Amen.] If anyone has a problem understanding why a puny $6 billion over 5 years is totally meaningless in the Ontarios, they could at least read two pages and look at the little graphs and keep in mind that, after the Rae NDP Lunatics broke a world record for any subnational government, overspending by $67.4 billion in only 5 years (as the Canadian Taxpayers Federation documents), which is what caused the Harris Conservatives to not only be elected and re-elected, but the NDP to be wiped off the political map of the Ontarios in the process...

The Rae NDP Lunatics bitched and screamed (as though they were in Saskatchewan or BC or something) about the then, only $2 billion "fiscal imbalance". They held the "Ontario" dictatorship from 1990-1995. Look at what happened:

Canadian Financing Quarterly, CIBC World Markets
Killing the Golden Goose?
Warren Lovely, April 15, 2005
PDF: http://research.cibcwm.com/economic_...d/cfqapr05.pdf

...from 1995 on, after the Ontarios had received a public warning from the World Bank to get its fiscal house in order or be slapped with a third world credit rating. Get that NDP deficit paid off; which is usually done in the Canadas by "provincial" governments and a few MPs bitching and screaming to the confederates to get more handouts -- as the Campbell Liberals in BC have done and are still at; using the lowest of the low, "the" equalization welfare handout transfer to pay their last NDP deficits and debts down, which they've already done, and are now (as with just about everything else) building up reserve funds and paying debt down with the EQUALIZATION transfer, which is not what it has ever even claimed to exist for; while the Ontarios pay for the bulk of the things and every mouthpiece in this forum should take the advice they try to slap on the Ontarios: Get your own "provincial" spending under control, cut your own provincial services and raise your provincial taxes if you can't pay your bills. But no such luck for the Ontarios. The exact OPPOSITE happened and is still going on -- again.

Any problems with the source, feel free to contact them. Their contact information is all over the document and it's just a little warm-up.

For a decent list of the entities involved in documenting and exposing how "Ontario" is being ripped off by "these federation" this document from the Ontario Chamber of Commerce states right in it that it's a compilation of research performed by others (documented/cited) and reviews of existing academia, also documented/cited.

Ontario Chamber of Commerce (http://www.occ.on.ca/)
Fairness In Confederation
Fiscal Imbalance: Driving Ontario to ‘Have-Not’ Status.
David MacKinnon, August, 2005
PDF: http://www.occ.on.ca/2publications/r...ort_082005.pdf

Skim over the text (it is assumed that you, as in whomever is reading, if anyone, are already up to speed with all of the sources cited, so not much of it will make sense otherwise), look for footnotes citing other documents, Google the titles of them, download and read them. Then look at the back in the Independent Policy Research and References and Relevant Web Sites and start there. It quotes Professor Tom Courchene, but leaves out this document, which is quite informative and was put together by Courchene due to the lack of sources in the document from the CIBC World Markets report:

Institute for Research on Public Policy (IRPP)
Vertical and Horizontal Fiscal Imbalances: An Ontario Perspective
Thomas J. Courchene
Jarislowsky-Deutsch Professor of Economic and Financial Policy Queen’s University
and Senior Scholar Institute for Research on Public Policy
Montreal

Background Notes for a Presentation to the
STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE
HOUSE OF COMMONS May 4, 2005

PDF: http://www.irpp.org/miscpubs/archive/tjc_050504.pdf

The ignorance around, as though "McGuinty" came up with it (the Canadian Chamber of Commerce endorsed the document above; and of course the Atlantic [Canada] Institute for Market Research [AIMS] documenting how harmful "equalization" has been and is to the Atlantic Canadas, because they were part of the study) and is using it as some excuse is quite amazing. It took, starting with the Toronto Board of Trade, the $11 billion of the $22 billion (on average per year) the confederates steal from the "Ontario" feds, who then run half of that deficit on the City of Toronto; which is what truly lit the fires under the asses of the "Ontario" feds, but for Toronto, not the Ontarios.

Either turn Toronto into a province so we can deal with the confederates directly, which is inevitable anyway, if we decide to keep any confederate politicians, or try to prove your worthiness as "Ontario" by getting our revenues back for us. [Directed at the unbelievably hopeless "Ontario" feds, who have never been able to do so.]

Then it spread to the rest of the Ontarios, of course, because it's what "Ontario" politicians do, but the entities in Toronto have a few connections and totally bypassed the irrelevant politicians to get all of the above (and every source cited in them) and plenty more documented without any politicians: to warn them that they are about to become extinct if they don't wake up.

The Phase 2 report from the OCC:

Ontario Chamber of Commerce
Fairness in Confederation
Fiscal Imbalance: A Roadmap to Recovery
David MacKinnon, November 9, 2005
(HTML link to the document, which is a PDF file; LEFT-click to download)

...is quite direct for "diplomatic language" in stating what is going to happen to the confederates if they don't wake up and soon. And they're doing as expected: the exact opposite of what they should be doing if they want to exist.

And good for them. Hang yourselves, fools, so that we don't have to do it for you. They've been given exactly enough rope to do just that and are doing a very fine job of it.
Really? How so with only (1991 Census on) 103 of 301 confederate seats (34.22%) in the Canadas and (from the 2001 Census on) 106 of 308 (34.42%) of confederate seats? It is mathematically impossible and is also reality. And as clearly demonstrated in the last confederate election -- there is no singular "Ontario thing" either, which you would know very well if you lived in the Ontarios.

What is truly responsible for the run of the "liberals" is the "western reformers" like a crazy Ross Perot, but who simply wouldn't go away, splitting the usual middle-conservative vote that the "liberals" stole (as the Labour Party in the U.K. did), and accomplished nothing BUT handing one majority after another to the "liberals".