Should Ontario privatise its energy indutry?

[Machjo]

Those parts of the industry that are not natural monopolies could just be privatized like any other business. Those parts that are a natural monopoly coudl be converted into a consumer cooperative.

Once that is done, the rule is simple. The province does not subsidize it and it pays the same taxes as any other industry except maybe a nonrenewable-resource tax where applicable.

Beyond that, leave it to the market to decide on the price.

To discourage consumers from voting for a board of directors that would lower the price of energy below what it costs to produce it, we could prohibit the energy sector from borrowing money and going into debt. This would force it to charge a truly sustainable market rate but sinse it's consumer-elected, it would still face pressure to keep prices as low as possible within those constraints.

 

[lone wolf]

It's go or no go - all or nothing. I wouldn't partner up with an entity as crooked as Ontario governments

 

[Corduroy]

What happens when the power company needs extra money to continue operating but can't borrow money or go into debt? Will it just shut down? Remember in the United States when congress refused to increase the government debt, the government just stopped. And that stoppage didn't solve the problem. They eventually needed to take on more debt.

If the power company goes in the red temporarily, as happens with any business, if they can't borrow, they can't operate. And if they can't operate, they won't make the money needed to start up again.

 

[lone wolf]

In Ontario they just rob the customer....

 

[Corduroy]

That's how capitalism workers, comrade. Rob labour, rob the consumer, pay dividends.

 

[lone wolf]

Ha.... Read a newspaper and make yourself aware of what's happening here. This is unrestrained criminal activity

 

[Corduroy]

This is unrestrained criminal activity

Yeah, capitalism.

 

[Walter]

No gubmint should be in control of the electricity supply.

 

[MHz]

Utilities and the banks should be classified as essential services.

 

[Corduroy]

Banks as essential services? Well that would flip the whole game board.

 

[TenPenny]

No gubmint should be in control of the electricity supply.

No private business should be in control of the electricity supply or distribution.

 

[Machjo]

What happens when the power company needs extra money to continue operating but can't borrow money or go into debt? Will it just shut down? Remember in the United States when congress refused to increase the government debt, the government just stopped. And that stoppage didn't solve the problem. They eventually needed to take on more debt.

If the power company goes in the red temporarily, as happens with any business, if they can't borrow, they can't operate. And if they can't operate, they won't make the money needed to start up again.

That would put pressure on the company to raise the price of energy to ensure that it does have enough money. Since all energy companies in Ontario would have to respect the same rule, none would enjoy an advantage over any other.

Though I might be open to the idea of allowing it to borrow, but I'm hesitant. I fear consumers could try to suck it dry until there is no energy industry left and then the province has to intervene again with massive investment.

Utilities and the banks should be classified as essential services.

What does that have to do with who owns them?

No private business should be in control of the electricity supply or distribution.

Why not? If any business that is declared a natural monopoly must become a consumer cooperative, this would mean that each consumer would get to elect its board of directors on the basis of one man, one vote. Would that not make it more democratic?

 

[Corduroy]

No gubmint should be in control of the electricity supply.

No private business should be in control of the electricity supply or distribution.

That settles it.

That would put pressure on the company to raise the price of energy to ensure that it does have enough money.

Pressure yes, but that doesn't mean it would succeed and the system you suggest would result in a complete collapse of the company if it failed. Pressure needs a release valve.

 

[MHz]

Banks as essential services? Well that would flip the whole game board.

Should have been done a few 100 years ago.

Pressure yes, but that doesn't mean it would succeed and the system you suggest would result in a complete collapse of the company if it failed. Pressure needs a release valve.

Follow the trail that was created when California did it. Not a pleasant ride for the consumers of said electricity.

 

[Machjo]

That settles it.



Pressure yes, but that doesn't mean it would succeed and the system you suggest would result in a complete collapse of the company if it failed. Pressure needs a release valve.

Perhaps. I'm not thinking of applying this to non-monopolistic companies. In the case of a monopoly, it has no competition so no fear on that front. Perhaps allow it to borrow for the first ten years but with an expectation that it will build up its funds over that period of time so as to pay off its debt and have an emergency supply of money. After that, maybe always require the company to always keep so much money on hadn. Whe its funde fall below that, it would have no choice but to increase rates. Again, since it's a monopoly, no worries.This would help to reduce costs over time by providing stability and democracy by allowing consumers to elect the BOD.

 

[MHz]

How many trillion for the shareholders before that emergency thing is full?

 

[Machjo]

How many trillion for the shareholders before that emergency thing is full?

In the case of a natural monopoly, since the government would have converted it into a consumer cooperative, the emergency funds would increase the value of the company for any person who sells his share.

There could be a law that you must sell your share when you leave the province and buy a share when you move into the province.

That jcould be complicated though.

Another option might be that you buy and sell shares as you like, but the vote is still one man one vote for every consumer (i.e. every Ontarian adult).

Oh, and I do acknowledge that what I'm proposing with the prohibition on borrowing and needing to build reserves would actually push the cost of electrical bills up even more in the short term. I admit that.

The idea though is that it would help to stabilize them in the long run and make it more independent of the government.

 

[MHz]

You're not really up on how capitalism actually works are you??

 

[petros]

Yeah, capitalism.

Yay Capitalism.

Got a pension plan?

It's not Communism making your savings grow is it?

 

[HarperCons]

private property is theft.