The Padre
Posts: 4,558 
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
February 16th, 2007, 05:15 PM
By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor
Researchers who wanted to find out why it is not only taboo to kiss your sister, but also disgusting, said on Wednesday they have discovered why in a discovery that challenges some basic tenets of Freudian theory.
The instinct evolved naturally and cannot be taught, John Tooby and Leda Cosmides of the University of California Santa Barbara wrote in their report in the journal Nature.
Spending time in the same household and watching your mother care for your brother or sister is all it takes. This is
all subconscious, of course, reported the researchers, who worked with Debra Lieberman of the University of Hawaii.
"We went in search of a kin detection system because some of the most important theories in evolutionary biology said such a thing should exist," Cosmides said in a telephone interview.
"It should regulate both altruism and incest disgust."
Humans have an inbuilt system that does both, they found.
"This data shows that the degree to which we feel those things is governed by these cues that, for hunter-gatherers, predict whether somebody is a sibling. And it works regardless of your beliefs -- who you are told who your siblings are," she
said.
Cosmides and her colleagues tested 600 volunteers, asking them all sorts of questions jumbled together so they would not know what was being studied.
"We asked them how many favors did you do for this particular sibling in a month. We asked if this sibling needed a kidney, how likely would you be to donate this sibling a kidney."
FORBIDDEN FRUIT
And they asked about all sorts of ethical dilemmas, including questions about sexual relationships with siblings.
Among the volunteers were people who had never shared a home with their siblings -- for instance, full- or half-siblings born 10 or even 20 years apart.
What determined incest disgust and altruism was the same --
how much time an older sibling spent watching his or her mother care for a younger one, or how much time the two spent together in the same household.
"If you co-resided with them for a long time as a child, you'd treat them as you'd treat any full sibling. This seems to
operate non-consciously," Cosmides said.
Especially strong was the effect of watching one's mother care for a younger child. "They would be very altruistic toward
that baby and they'd be grossed out at the idea of sex with that baby as an adult," Cosmides said.
Women are especially sensitive to this, added Cosmides, a cognitive psychologist. "One whiff of possible siblinghood and that's it for you if you are a woman," she said.
The study contradicts the teachings of Sigmund Freud, who described Oedipal urges and conflicts, Cosmides said.
"He thought you are attracted to your relatives and your siblings and parents and it takes the force of culture and society to keep you from committing the incest that is in your heart," she said.
Cosmides said Freud had a possible reason for his own feelings -- he had a wet nurse who cuddled and breastfed him: "Who their brain thinks is mom is different from who they consciously believe is mom. For them it is quite reasonable that they have an attraction to their mothers."
Copyright © 2007 Reuters Limited.
By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor
Researchers who wanted to find out why it is not only taboo to kiss your sister, but also disgusting, said on Wednesday they have discovered why in a discovery that challenges some basic tenets of Freudian theory.
The instinct evolved naturally and cannot be taught, John Tooby and Leda Cosmides of the University of California Santa Barbara wrote in their report in the journal Nature.
Spending time in the same household and watching your mother care for your brother or sister is all it takes. This is
all subconscious, of course, reported the researchers, who worked with Debra Lieberman of the University of Hawaii.
"We went in search of a kin detection system because some of the most important theories in evolutionary biology said such a thing should exist," Cosmides said in a telephone interview.
"It should regulate both altruism and incest disgust."
Humans have an inbuilt system that does both, they found.
"This data shows that the degree to which we feel those things is governed by these cues that, for hunter-gatherers, predict whether somebody is a sibling. And it works regardless of your beliefs -- who you are told who your siblings are," she
said.
Cosmides and her colleagues tested 600 volunteers, asking them all sorts of questions jumbled together so they would not know what was being studied.
"We asked them how many favors did you do for this particular sibling in a month. We asked if this sibling needed a kidney, how likely would you be to donate this sibling a kidney."
FORBIDDEN FRUIT
And they asked about all sorts of ethical dilemmas, including questions about sexual relationships with siblings.
Among the volunteers were people who had never shared a home with their siblings -- for instance, full- or half-siblings born 10 or even 20 years apart.
What determined incest disgust and altruism was the same --
how much time an older sibling spent watching his or her mother care for a younger one, or how much time the two spent together in the same household.
"If you co-resided with them for a long time as a child, you'd treat them as you'd treat any full sibling. This seems to
operate non-consciously," Cosmides said.
Especially strong was the effect of watching one's mother care for a younger child. "They would be very altruistic toward
that baby and they'd be grossed out at the idea of sex with that baby as an adult," Cosmides said.
Women are especially sensitive to this, added Cosmides, a cognitive psychologist. "One whiff of possible siblinghood and that's it for you if you are a woman," she said.
The study contradicts the teachings of Sigmund Freud, who described Oedipal urges and conflicts, Cosmides said.
"He thought you are attracted to your relatives and your siblings and parents and it takes the force of culture and society to keep you from committing the incest that is in your heart," she said.
Cosmides said Freud had a possible reason for his own feelings -- he had a wet nurse who cuddled and breastfed him: "Who their brain thinks is mom is different from who they consciously believe is mom. For them it is quite reasonable that they have an attraction to their mothers."
Copyright © 2007 Reuters Limited.
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Posts: 6,651
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
February 16th, 2007, 05:33 PM
i have met people online who have had all sorts of experiences with their siblings. If i meet another I'll see if i can find out if they grew up together, and whether one saw the other as a baby.
i have met people online who have had all sorts of experiences with their siblings. If i meet another I'll see if i can find out if they grew up together, and whether one saw the other as a baby.
Sunshine
Posts: 443
Location: Vancouver Island
Location: Vancouver Island
February 16th, 2007, 05:40 PM
Was freud the guy who thought everybody's deepest desire was to sleep with their mom?
Can't say I've ever wanted to sleep with a relative. I've certainly found some of my cousins attractive, but I wouldn't ever sleep with them. I'm not against people who want to do that, I just wouldn't want to myself.
Was freud the guy who thought everybody's deepest desire was to sleep with their mom?
Can't say I've ever wanted to sleep with a relative. I've certainly found some of my cousins attractive, but I wouldn't ever sleep with them. I'm not against people who want to do that, I just wouldn't want to myself.
Member
Posts: 98
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
February 16th, 2007, 06:55 PM
Sigmund 'Fraud' probably would have trampled over his mother to anal-rape his grandmother.
Self-obsessed pseudo-scientific BS. Psychiatry is the biggest non-empirical hoax ever perpetrated upon a gullible populace.
Cash-cow for the 'self-chosen'.
Sigmund 'Fraud' probably would have trampled over his mother to anal-rape his grandmother.
Self-obsessed pseudo-scientific BS. Psychiatry is the biggest non-empirical hoax ever perpetrated upon a gullible populace.
Cash-cow for the 'self-chosen'.
February 16th, 2007, 08:00 PM
Quoting darleneonfire
My personal experience, is that most fantasies and fetishes these days arise out of a feeling of 'wrong'. Half those women, if you told them they could, that it was perfectly reasonable and okay to sleep with their relatives, would probably have no true desire to do so. The feeling that arises of pondering on something naughty, something bad, is what excites them.
I read "My Secret Garden" by Nancy Friday.
I was amazed how many women's fantasies centred around
their fathers and brothers.
I was amazed how many women's fantasies centred around
their fathers and brothers.
Council Member
Posts: 1,473
Location: Great Satan
Location: Great Satan
February 16th, 2007, 08:08 PM
This has the "gross" ometer pegged to the right as well...
PORTLAND, Ore. — An 84-year-old woman who confessed to having sex with an 11-year-old boy in her foster care reached a deal with prosecutors and pleaded guilty Thursday to attempted sex abuse, officials said.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,252379,00.html
This has the "gross" ometer pegged to the right as well...
PORTLAND, Ore. — An 84-year-old woman who confessed to having sex with an 11-year-old boy in her foster care reached a deal with prosecutors and pleaded guilty Thursday to attempted sex abuse, officials said.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,252379,00.html
February 16th, 2007, 08:15 PM
Quoting thomaska
yeah, that article already has its own thread.
This has the "gross" ometer pegged to the right as well...
PORTLAND, Ore. — An 84-year-old woman who confessed to having sex with an 11-year-old boy in her foster care reached a deal with prosecutors and pleaded guilty Thursday to attempted sex abuse, officials said.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,252379,00.html
PORTLAND, Ore. — An 84-year-old woman who confessed to having sex with an 11-year-old boy in her foster care reached a deal with prosecutors and pleaded guilty Thursday to attempted sex abuse, officials said.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,252379,00.html
February 16th, 2007, 08:47 PM
Quoting CanadianMatt
What exactly is sick and disgusting? Because an article explaining how and why we develop an aversion to sibling relations seems pretty basic to me. There's not much about reseraching the issue which I find disgusting. It seems like a pretty key thing to check into. Do you feel they shouldn't research it? Or were you just talking about the topic of incest in general?
this is sick and degusting...all i have to say.
House Member
Posts: 3,649
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
Videos: 2
Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
February 16th, 2007, 09:13 PM
Obviously none of you people have seen my sisters...
Obviously none of you people have seen my sisters...
February 17th, 2007, 07:51 AM
Quoting ShepherdsDog
The good and clean people post in the religious forums.
Why is it??? It just is. Now let's talk about something else that doesn't want to make most people hurl.
Newbie
Posts: 20
Location: Kaohsiung, Taiwan
Location: Kaohsiung, Taiwan
February 17th, 2007, 08:31 AM
I'm neither most of the time. Good and clean people aren't necessarily religious and people who claim to be religious aren't always good and clean people (I've worked at a Catholic school and some of the most duplicitous, mean spirited and downright immoral people I've ever met are Dominican nuns).
I'm neither most of the time. Good and clean people aren't necessarily religious and people who claim to be religious aren't always good and clean people (I've worked at a Catholic school and some of the most duplicitous, mean spirited and downright immoral people I've ever met are Dominican nuns).
February 17th, 2007, 08:50 AM
Quoting ShepherdsDog
Yo! What you said. We are working on new ranks right now, but there has been a suggestion for a sarcasm font. Watch for that poll soon. LOL
I'm neither most of the time. Good and clean people aren't necessarily religious and people who claim to be religious aren't always good and clean people (I've worked at a Catholic school and some of the most duplicitous, mean spirited and downright immoral people I've ever met are Dominican nuns).
