Vancouverís safe-injection site


CUBert
#61
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Junkies are very often mental health patients who were released from mental health facilities to fend for themselves on the streets. They started off being addicted to prescription drugs but because of lack of supervision have now fallen victim to pushers. That is one real crime that government is trying to cover up.

The other is the source of heroine - Afghanistan and one of Canada's roles over there is protecting those poppy fields that have seen production rise 100 times since occupation. That is the other real crime being covered up with this BS war on drugs and tough on crime.

Afghanistan Opium Crop Sets Record - washingtonpost.com (external - login to view)

And BTW, to really reduce crime at in-sight, they should be distributing heroine and crack as well.

Indeed.... There were no poppy fields with the Taliban in power..
 
Tonington
#62
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayzView Post

What do you call a place where you have impunity from the law?

You are being foolish. If they had impunity they could shoot up wherever they like. They cannot. They can shoot their drugs in a supervised clinic which has an exemption under our laws. At least until the ideological government we have decides that facts and benefits don't mesh with their law and order agenda.

Facts shmacts!
 
CDNBear
#63
Quote: Originally Posted by CUBertView Post

Indeed.... There were no poppy fields with the Taliban in power..

This silly stupidity has been proven false so many times, only the most novice or moronic of forum dwellers still thinks it's true.

Not only did it exist under the Taliban, they taxed it, favoured warlords sympathetic to their theology and actively participated in driving up the price, so they could reap greater taxation profits.
 
YukonJack
#64
They say that addiction to nicotine is worse than any other addiction.

Well, let me speak from experience. I started smoking when I was 15. I quit cold turkey when I was 45, admittedly, after several unsuccessful attempts. But I did, and after 24 years I am still nicotine-free and happy to be.

Due to insufferable pain I was on Morphine (prescribed) for two years, while I waited in our glorious health care system for 15 minute operation. When the operation was over, the attending surgeon advised me to go on a withdrawal program, but I refused, saying that if I could quit tobacco, cold turkey, I could, surely quit Dilaudid, cold turkey.

To make a long story short, I did. It was not pleasant or easy, but all it took was WILL POWER.

I have no sympathy for addicts who cry and demand my tax money to help them to quit their addiction. Piss on them, let them develop a spine quit!! It's NOT food, it's NOT water, it's NOT something to sustain their lives.

As a resident of Manitoba, I don't give a flying crap about BC freeloading addicts, since they don't directly affect my pocketbook. But if Manitoba tried to install the same asinine crap, I would object vigorously.

As the old saying goes: God help those who help themselves. God, or no God, if you don't want to help yourself, go to hell and break the law somewhere else.
 
JLM
#65
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJackView Post

They say that addiction to nicotine is worse than any other addiction.

Well, let me speak from experience. I started smoking when I was 15. I quit cold turkey when I was 45, admittedly, after several unsuccessful attempts. But I did, and after 24 years I am still nicotine-free and happy to be.

Due to insufferable pain I was on Morphine (prescribed) for two years, while I waited in our glorious health care system for 15 minute operation. When the operation was over, the attending surgeon advised me to go on a withdrawal program, but I refused, saying that if I could quit tobacco, cold turkey, I could, surely quit Dilaudid, cold turkey.

To make a long story short, I did. It was not pleasant or easy, but all it took was WILL POWER.

I have no sympathy for addicts who cry and demand my tax money to help them to quit their addiction. Piss on them, let them develop a spine quit!! It's NOT food, it's NOT water, it's NOT something to sustain their lives.

As a resident of Manitoba, I don't give a flying crap about BC freeloading addicts, since they don't directly affect my pocketbook. But if Manitoba tried to install the same asinine crap, I would object vigorously.

As the old saying goes: God help those who help themselves. God, or no God, if you don't want to help yourself, go to hell and break the law somewhere else.

I think you are right...........philisophically, but being "right" doesn't always work. I believe in giving help..............as long as the person being helped is giving it 100% him/herself. We've been raised in a tolerant and pampered society...........years ago we put up with quite a bit of pain of discomfort and but now there is a pill to deaden every little twinge and discomfort. The bigger problem is society has a bigger addiction to something that has indirectly led to this. I know my grandmother, who lived in poverty and couldn't afford the dentist (such as he was) when her teeth got rotten she pulled them herself. That would probably be illegal today.
 
In Between Man
+1 / -1
#66
Insite's next battle: Supervised inhalation.

Now the proponents of Insite are hoping that a favorable decision in the Supreme Court this week allowing safe injection, will pave a way for them to argue for supervised inhalation of crack cocaine!

Insite isn't saving lives, its just monitoring the drug user's slower death.

Shut down Insite.
 
lone wolf
#67
It's not the overdose that kills. It's the time it takes to find the unconscious person. If someone is under observation while they're doing something stupid, they'll probably live.
 
Unforgiven
+1
#68
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayzView Post

People who use Insite! HELLO!

They are just as eligible to be arrested as anyone else.

Quote:

It was a hypothetical question to demonstrate that the PD doesn't even have the authority to do that.

Of course they have the authority. You should check your facts.

Quote:

People get arrested everyday LEGITIMATELY, therefore no reason to bark. But if someone using Insite was arrested at their facility, then obviously bleeding heart *******s like the ones at the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association would be on the news crying foul. Would they not?

Probably, but then Insite is doing a wonderful job and helping reduce problems in East Hastings. That only pisses off a few people who seem to hate it when someone isn't getting punished.

Quote:

I swear I'm quitting.

Would it help if you were arrested, held until court and then charged with trafficking? House and car taken away, family left to scramble for a place to live in the meantime? Maybe even charging you with endangering children since you probably go near a school while under the influence.

Should someone have a talk with your parents to find out why they raised you wrong like this?

Quote:

There is so much more we can do rather than watching and enabling these people destroy their lives. Injecting drugs to self medicate doesn't solve their problem in the least, in fact it makes it worse because the longer you addicting the more damage you do to yourself and the harder it is to quit.

Not when they tell you to go fu ck yourself. The addict has to want to quit first, only then can anyone start to help. Stressing the sh!t out of them by arresting them, taking away any money or drugs they happen to have and then dumping them back on the street for a court date they won't make doesn't help them.

That's why there is an place like Insite to begin with.

All of this is basic stuff that if you bothered to read anything about the program and place you would know.
 
In Between Man
#69
A Vancouver woman says the city's supervised injection site put her on the path to a two-month heroin binge after nurses at the facility helped her inject herself for the first time in her life.

Since her first visit in March, 32-year-old Cherie says she has visited Insite as many as 100 times to support her sudden addiction – something she says she wouldn't have done if the site had warned her away.

"It was way too convenient," she told CTV News. "It made me use more. If there wasn't an Insite I wouldn't use as often as I was. It made my addiction spiral downhill basically."

(source)

Instead of doing the right thing, which would be confrontation, Insite did nothing but further this woman's addiction.

Shut down Insite.
 
CUBert
#70
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

This silly stupidity has been proven false so many times, only the most novice or moronic of forum dwellers still thinks it's true.

Not only did it exist under the Taliban, they taxed it, favoured warlords sympathetic to their theology and actively participated in driving up the price, so they could reap greater taxation profits.



U.N. drug control officers said the Taliban religious militia has nearly wiped out opium production in Afghanistan -- once the world's largest producer -- since banning poppy cultivation last summer.
A 12-member team from the U.N. Drug Control Program spent two weeks searching most of the nation's largest opium-producing areas and found so few poppies that they do not expect any opium to come out of Afghanistan this year.



Mullah Mohammed Omar, the Taliban's supreme leader, banned poppy growing before the November planting season and augmented it with a religious edict making it contrary to the tenets of Islam.
The Taliban, which has imposed a strict brand of Islam in the 95 percent of Afghanistan it controls, has set fire to heroin laboratories and jailed farmers until they agreed to destroy their poppy crops.



Afghanistan, Opium and the Taliban (external - login to view)
 
Tonington
#71
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayzView Post

A Vancouver woman says the city's supervised injection site put her on the path to a two-month heroin binge after nurses at the facility helped her inject herself for the first time in her life.

Since her first visit in March, 32-year-old Cherie says she has visited Insite as many as 100 times to support her sudden addiction Ė something she says she wouldn't have done if the site had warned her away.

"It was way too convenient," she told CTV News. "It made me use more. If there wasn't an Insite I wouldn't use as often as I was. It made my addiction spiral downhill basically."

(source)

Instead of doing the right thing, which would be confrontation, Insite did nothing but further this woman's addiction.

Shut down Insite.

Bull. She bought the heroin herself with the intent to use it. Insite doesn't supply drugs. She bought the heroin, and not to ice a cake with.

Confrontation doesn't get people into addictions services, it forces them away, and underground.
 
In Between Man
+2
#72
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Bull. She bought the heroin herself with the intent to use it. Insite doesn't supply drugs. She bought the heroin, and not to ice a cake with.

Confrontation doesn't get people into addictions services, it forces them away, and underground.

It doesn't matter who supplies the heroin, Insite coached her how to inject herself for the first time.

When someone is about to shoot up for the first time, this is when you need to grab them by the ears, compassionately warn about the grave mistake and spiraling path they are about to take. ANYTHING to prevent that needle from going in. If you succeed that person is going to be nothing but grateful when they look back at that critical moment. What does Insite do instead? They condoned her choice, and contributed to her becoming a full blown addict. Don't take my word for it, take hers.

Shut down Insite.
 
YukonJack
+2
#73
Will Vancouver provide safe get-drunk sites, booze and glasses for alcohol addicts, as well?
 
In Between Man
+1
#74
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJackView Post

Will Vancouver provide safe get-drunk sites, booze and glasses for alcohol addicts, as well?

Not yet, but unbelievably if they get a favorably decision from the supreme court, they will next argue for "safe inhalation" space for crack cocaine users!
 
lone wolf
+2
#75
Sure.... They're called bars
 
PoliticalNick
#76
I would certainly agree that this lady's story is a failure of the program. The intent is to allow chronic IV drug users a a safe place to inject with proper disposal of the needle to prevent them from showing up in alleys and parks.

While I agree she should have been encouraged and counselled to not start using I also agree that this is mostly a good program for those that are long term addicts.
 
Tonington
+3
#77
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayzView Post

It doesn't matter who supplies the heroin, Insite coached her how to inject herself for the first time.

I'm aware of that.

Would you prefer she goes down an alley for coaching instead? I hear alleys have top notch health professionals, and the very best addiction support services.

Maybe I'm asking the wrong person about alleys...
 
Unforgiven
+1
#78
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayzView Post

It doesn't matter who supplies the heroin, Insite coached her how to inject herself for the first time.

You see here you go taking something that happened and twisting it into something that didn't happen.

When someone is about to shoot up for the first time, this is when you need to grab them by the ears, compassionately warn about the grave mistake and spiraling path they are about to take.[/quote]

She wasn't about to shoot up for the first time. She had shot up before but had friends inject her. So in going to Insite, she was already an IV drug user. She would eventually have done it herself and perhaps killed her self or caused irreversible damage to herself.


Quote:

ANYTHING to prevent that needle from going in. If you succeed that person is going to be nothing but grateful when they look back at that critical moment. What does Insite do instead? They condoned her choice, and contributed to her becoming a full blown addict. Don't take my word for it, take hers.

Shut down Insite.

No not anything to prevent that needle from going in. If she chooses to take drugs, it's her choice. Free will is like that. They didn't condone her choice they made sure she was safe and taught her how to do what she would have done on her own eventually, safely.

Quite convenient that someone comes along and does this then turns to CTV News (hello Duffy) to break the story. The timing sure is a coincidence in that it's about to go before the SCoC. Why it's almost like someone set that whole thing up. Surely no one would stoop as low as to pay for someone to go shoot up some junk a couple of times in order to come up with a story to discredit an organization that provides evidence that flies in the face of the they personally believe in? Nah no one would stoop that low. Would they?

How can you think this is better?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzlX8...eature=related (external - login to view)
Last edited by Unforgiven; May 26th, 2011 at 07:34 PM..
 
taxslave
+2
#79
Quote: Originally Posted by YukonJackView Post

They say that addiction to nicotine is worse than any other addiction.

Well, let me speak from experience. I started smoking when I was 15. I quit cold turkey when I was 45, admittedly, after several unsuccessful attempts. But I did, and after 24 years I am still nicotine-free and happy to be.

Due to insufferable pain I was on Morphine (prescribed) for two years, while I waited in our glorious health care system for 15 minute operation. When the operation was over, the attending surgeon advised me to go on a withdrawal program, but I refused, saying that if I could quit tobacco, cold turkey, I could, surely quit Dilaudid, cold turkey.

To make a long story short, I did. It was not pleasant or easy, but all it took was WILL POWER.

I have no sympathy for addicts who cry and demand my tax money to help them to quit their addiction. Piss on them, let them develop a spine quit!! It's NOT food, it's NOT water, it's NOT something to sustain their lives.

As a resident of Manitoba, I don't give a flying crap about BC freeloading addicts, since they don't directly affect my pocketbook. But if Manitoba tried to install the same asinine crap, I would object vigorously.

As the old saying goes: God help those who help themselves. God, or no God, if you don't want to help yourself, go to hell and break the law somewhere else.

Most addicts do not have that kind of will power. There is no difference as to what they are addicted to. That is why there is AA and a host of other support groups.

Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayzView Post

A Vancouver woman says the city's supervised injection site put her on the path to a two-month heroin binge after nurses at the facility helped her inject herself for the first time in her life.

Since her first visit in March, 32-year-old Cherie says she has visited Insite as many as 100 times to support her sudden addiction Ė something she says she wouldn't have done if the site had warned her away.

"It was way too convenient," she told CTV News. "It made me use more. If there wasn't an Insite I wouldn't use as often as I was. It made my addiction spiral downhill basically."

(source)

Instead of doing the right thing, which would be confrontation, Insite did nothing but further this woman's addiction.

Shut down Insite.

I have to call Bull**** on that one. Only someone with no experience with drugs could possibly be gullible enough to believe that.
 
Unforgiven
#80
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Sure.... They're called bars

Some come with bare naked ladies and shooter specials during power hour. Even if you don't know how to drink, they will show you. Even give you little samplers so that you can try lots of them before you start to get sick and pass out.
 
Elder
+1
#81
I do not know quite what to think on Van's safe-injection site.

Part of me says: " You (you is the addict) had to try the drug first and this is usually done without coercion; then you had to learn how to use it to gain the effect - smoke/snort then ultimately learn to inject into veins ; you did the drug again and again and again knowing it was addictive - so how I am supposed to feel compassion?

I really do not know what the other part of me says. I just know that I am not a co-dependent (caretaker) or rescuer/martyr so I do not feel the extreme need to go out there to enable people to do drugs safely whilst they are purposefully destroying theirs and others lives. Does the carefully develeped criminal element in an addict's personality magically disappear when they have free drugs? They are probably still not working so do not have a personal income. The twisted psychological perspective must remain so they would need to continue to act out those patterns. Wouldn't they?

Author Gene Hayman states that addiction is a disorder of choice. In fact he wrote a book: Addiction: A Disorder of Choice which flogs to death the current (codependent-based) popular idea that drug and alcohol addictions are diseases. No...they are choices!!

Each addict begets a host of victims; you know - like the families who still love the users/abusers and are so angst ridden that they become emotionally depleted especially when their daughter/son is constantly breaking in and stealing from them? Also in their wake are the current and former friends who become emotionally and financially depleted yet feel they cannot give up on their friend. Or people such as neighbours, business owners, passers-by that they prey upon and rob. Maybe I should mention car theft and insane chases through the populated streets whilst they are out of their minds on crack laughing at society for being so stupid. Or how about home invasions and terror tactics to feed their need for more stolen goods to pawn so they can get some more drugs.

I would make certain that no free injection site is opened up in our neigbourhood for when that occurs the neighbourhood is doomed for along with the safe-site come the addicts and their other dark, nefarious habits and criminal associates.

Everyone who is not an addict is the potential prey/victim of the addict. Do I think that safe injection sites help? I do not have enough information on this but it seems to me that if they have free drugs to use they do not need to quit and that just doesn't seem helpful to me.

I have diabetes and have coped with chronic pain and illness, for 7 long years, without alcohol or drugs. I learned to live with this ongoing state because I am an adult and must hold myself accountable for my thoughts and actions and how I affect society. If husband lost his job, again, and were unable to find another, or to afford BC Med at $109.00 for 2 per month- is there a safe free insulin injection site for diabetics?

The people who choose to become addicted by using addictive drugs believe that the world owes them. No, we do not. They are supposed to be self-accountable and be contributing members of society. Instead they are a drain on society and the perpetrators of most of the crimes. Wait a minute - I think I have come to a conclusion now - no I do not want to support Vancouver safe ejection sites...no...no...no.
Last edited by Elder; May 27th, 2011 at 12:39 AM..
 
MHz
#82
Perhaps the 'Netherlands' could become the place where people who prefer heroine to life could 'exist in peace' before their breath left their body. All the war injured could also move there so as to not 'disturb' the homeland (to the true horrors of war) Even Himmler has been recorded as going insane when less than 30.000 were being shot to death (apparently not all bu8llets were a kill shot.
 
In Between Man
#83
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

I have to call Bull**** on that one. Only someone with no experience with drugs could possibly be gullible enough to believe that.

Believe what? Insite being a contributor to addiction?
 
JLM
#84
Quote: Originally Posted by alleywayzalwayzView Post

Believe what? Insite being a contributor to addiction?

Yeah, I'm skeptical about that one myself.
 
MHz
#85
It's part of our commitment to the CIA drug cartel. The alternative is (apparently) a few more drug overdoses but a 90% drop in 'funds' for the muddlemen (patent pending)
 
In Between Man
#86
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Yeah, I'm skeptical about that one myself.

Well, she claims that Insite coached her how to properly inject a needle. That's like showing someone how to load and use a firearm when they want to kill themselves. Sounds like contribution to me.
 
Dexter Sinister
+3
#87
Safe injection sites are designed to protect addicts from avoidable death and disease. They work, the evidence from Vancouver is perfectly clear to anybody who takes the trouble to look at it. But in the neo-con world, ideology trumps evidence.
 
In Between Man
#88
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter SinisterView Post

But in the neo-con world, ideology trumps evidence.

Wrong! No one is denying that Insite protects addicts from avoidable death and disease. But so what! So does locking them up and throwing away the key!
 
Dexter Sinister
#89
Uh huh. And which do you think is the more benign, charitable, and dare I suggest Christian, way to treat troubled people?
 
In Between Man
#90
Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter SinisterView Post

Uh huh. And which do you think is the more benign, charitable, and dare I suggest Christian, way to treat troubled people?

You can easily treat a troubled person with a benign, charitable and Christian attitude without literally standing back and watching them stick a needle in their arm. It would take a great amount of patience and network of support but ultimately our love towards troubled people should be so great that we will do whatever it takes to prevent that needle from going in. Like I said, if we succeed that person will be nothing but grateful when they look back at that critical moment.

Instead Insite just monitors an injection, maybe offers a pamphlet about the rehab program, has a counselor ask a couple of questions, and then waits for the same poor sap to come back the next day, so they can offer that pamphlet again... Admittedly some of the addicts do take the rehab program, but were talking about a handful of people who get clean when there are thousands of addicts. Insite's success at TREATING addicts really is overrated.
 

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