Are the Conservatives pandering to the anti American vote?

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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That's the kind of political bullsh!t that has me wondering if there is any political party worth voting for.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Divide and conquer is the motto of the financial empre builders who reap the benefits of a divided nation.
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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It would seem so to moi...

YouTube - Ignatieff America

Yeah, they are.

The point is, the Conservatives have been wearing the "America's Ass-kisser" label for so long, that it is kinda nice to be able to point out that the Liberal leader suffers some divided loyalties.

Or at least he is a shameless opportunist.

The Ads are dead-on.

that's why they have been very, very effective.
 

Trotz

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May 20, 2010
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The clip does reaffirm the suspicion among certain liberal voters; a conspiracy even, that Ignatieff is an American and Conservative plant (an agent provocateur) designed to give Harper a majority.

A tad ironic with the clip too as the Liberal Party had; although wrongly, been the anti-American party in regards to implementing policies like protectionism and branch-plant economics, and refusing to go along with the Invasion of Iraq..
 

CDNBear

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Yeah, they are.

The point is, the Conservatives have been wearing the "America's Ass-kisser" label for so long, that it is kinda nice to be able to point out that the Liberal leader suffers some divided loyalties.

Or at least he is a shameless opportunist.

The Ads are dead-on.

that's why they have been very, very effective.
Did you need it pointed out to you Colpy?

I was already fully aware that Iggy was pretty much in it for the glory.

But that isn't my issue. What I take issue with, isn't so much in pointing out his divided loyalties to the anti American asshats.

It's in the wording chosen by the writer. It actually sounds anti American.
 

Cannuck

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Feb 2, 2006
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I don't see it as anti-American. Ignatieff could have said the same things about England while living there or China or....

Some people may want to read more into this than there actually is.
 

Trotz

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May 20, 2010
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Except, Ignatieff is not running in an ethnic Chinese community or anything. Even a lot of "Liberal Voters" are not comfortable with the fact that Ignatieff spent his intellectual career in the United States and not in Canada.
 

Cannuck

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Except, Ignatieff is not running in an ethnic Chinese community or anything. Even a lot of "Liberal Voters" are not comfortable with the fact that Ignatieff spent his intellectual career in the United States and not in Canada.

It matters not to me where he spent his career and how long he was out of the country or even what country he was in, his statements indicate that Canada was not his country and that is his problem.
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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It would seem so to moi...

YouTube - Ignatieff America

Certainly seems so to me. Actually, I see some positives for Ignatieff here:

1. He was willing to travel to serve his fellow man. Are we now saying that if you can't find work in your own city or country that you're best to just give up looking for work? And

2. He integrated into his newly-adopted local and national communities to the degree that he felt no difference between himself and his newly-adopted community. Are we now saying that people who move to Canada ought to be ashamed of integrating into their newly-adopted community?

So would it have been better if Ignatieff had said:

"It's your country, but it sure as Hell Ain't mine."

Or how about:

"I hate this Republic I live in."

For a party that prides itself on promoting the integration of immigrants into the community, someone on the Harper marketing teem dropped the ball big time on this one, and I can see this biting him in the but come next election. After all, we we believe others ought to integrate into Canadian society, then certainly we ought to accept Canadians integrating into foreign communities too when abroad.

Also, isn't the harper government the one that always crows about taking responsibility for your own actions when it comes to finding work and standing on your own two feet, the reason it supports free trade and open borders with the US? So what is Harper saying now, that free trade and open borders are just a diplomatic tool but that any Canadian who fully exploits this opportunity within the confines of ethics and the law is somehow a traitor to the country, and that Canadians who do go abroad must behave in a totally arrogant manner towards 'lesser societies' and refuse to integrate so as to stoop down to their level?

Thinking of it this way, not only did Harper insult Ignatieff but also the US.

He'll be very lucky if this does not come back to bite him in the butt later for his hypocrisy.

That's the kind of political bullsh!t that has me wondering if there is any political party worth voting for.

Like I keep saying, vote candidate, not party.
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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Yeah, they are.

The point is, the Conservatives have been wearing the "America's Ass-kisser" label for so long, that it is kinda nice to be able to point out that the Liberal leader suffers some divided loyalties.

Or at least he is a shameless opportunist.

The Ads are dead-on.

that's why they have been very, very effective.

The add in the OP is silly. First Harper wanted to engage in an illegal war in Iraq, and now insults the US by suggesting that it's shameful for Canadians to go there or to integrate into or love such a 'lesser nation'.

He has it all backwards. We should stand our ground politically be conforming to the highest moral and legal standards internationally but open our borders to the US so as to allow Canadians and Americans to befriend one another on an equal footing. Seems he has our relationship with the US ass-backwards, whereby politically we stoop down to becoming the US' lap dog but then on an interpersonal level we're expected to look down on the US as not good enough for us.

It matters not to me where he spent his career and how long he was out of the country or even what country he was in, his statements indicate that Canada was not his country and that is his problem.

That's false logic. You're suggesting a subtractive relationship between national identities (you can love one country only by hating another). I believe it is possible to love more than one country just as it's possible to love more than one person, family, or city. I tend to have a more additive notion of national identity (i.e. love of one country has no bearing on feelings towards another country).
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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I can't find a candidate worth giving my vote to.

That's where I think introducing a write-in ballot, or at least a write-in space on a ballot, could solve some problems. I had to hand in a blank ballot for the first time last election. Thinking back on it, maybe I was a little harsh on one of the candidates, but still a write-in space could have allowed me to write in the name of a local voter I respected. I have no particular person in mind right now, but if such a ballot were introduced, then I'd certainly keep a closer eye out for community leaders, even outside the political sphere, whom I could respect a a leader, and would start considering voting for such people.
 

SLM

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Mar 5, 2011
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I think the Conservatives need some new material. Didn't we hear enough about this during the last election? Maybe they should hire Mercer to write for them? At least then it would be intentionally funny.

Frankly, I'm very, very tired of constantly hearing from ALL candidates about how we should not vote for the other guy. Maybe tell us once in a while why we should vote for them instead? Is that too much too ask?

My vote would go to Mickey Mouse.
Well, he is the leader of the club that's made for you and me!
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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My vote would go to Mickey Mouse.

I'm surprised Disney did not fight his parents to prevent them from naming him that.

Did you need it pointed out to you Colpy?

I was already fully aware that Iggy was pretty much in it for the glory.

But that isn't my issue. What I take issue with, isn't so much in pointing out his divided loyalties to the anti American asshats.

It's in the wording chosen by the writer. It actually sounds anti American.

Clearly it is. First off, regardless of what one might think of Iggy himself, the video suggests that to love the US automatically proves one hates Canada (i.e. that it i not possible to love both countries equally, and that to love Canada one must hate all other countries, as that is the proof of love for Canada). It also suggests that to go out and work and seek knowledge abroad is paramount to treason, which also suggests that the Conservatives look down on Canadian entrepreneurs who do business abroad, which also shows the conservatives' lack of understanding of what free trade is about suggesting that they support free trade without actually understanding what it is they are supporting, making them look like right idiots.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Clearly it is. First off, regardless of what one might think of Iggy himself, the video suggests that to love the US automatically proves one hates Canada (i.e. that it i not possible to love both countries equally, and that to love Canada one must hate all other countries, as that is the proof of love for Canada). It also suggests that to go out and work and seek knowledge abroad is paramount to treason, which also suggests that the Conservatives look down on Canadian entrepreneurs who do business abroad, which also shows the conservatives' lack of understanding of what free trade is about suggesting that they support free trade without actually understanding what it is they are supporting, making them look like right idiots.
My point exactly.

The issue isn't in Iggy in this case. It's the Harper Gov't pandering to anti American sentiment.

That pretty much gives it life, promotes and otherwise acknowledges it to have a value. Things I find abhorrent.
 

Machjo

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Though I'm no fan of Iggy's, quite frankly his having worked abroad has absolutely no bearing on my support for him or lack thereof. In fact if anything, it's even a positive trait in showing his willingness to seek knowledge abroad. His ability to love an adopted country and identify with it is also a big, big plus for me, showing that he also understands what local and national integration actually mean.

If anything, a smart Liberal campaigner would turn these traits to the Liberals' advantage. If anything, this would be the ultimate embarrassment for the Harper government, for the Liberals or other parties to turn around and say that what Harper sees as faults (entrepreneurism, willingness to seek opportunity abroad, an ability to love people of other nationalities, etc.) they view as virtues worth promoting.

Now of course the main reason I won't vote for Iggy is because he's not in my riding, but that's another matter. Even if he was in my riding, I'd have to consider seriously what my other options were.

I should say though that that video alone would not turn me against voting for a Conservative candidate. I would however definitely expect that candidate to publicly distance himself from such cheap and baseless rhetoric and even cal his party on it. That would prove a truly independent-minded candidate as opposed to a party hack.

I am curious though to see if any Liberal candidate will be smart enough to turn this add on the Conservatives. If I were a Liberal, I sure as hell would/ It would make Harper look stupid.