Crime, not necessarly going down, but is it going up?

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
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www.cynicsunlimited.com
Stats Can and media state the crime rate is going down. But few seem to agree. So I asked a few people where I work and they all said, of course not, it's not going down. And no politician ever trumpets that it is. I agree also, I don't think crime is down because we all now .

1. must lock our bikes everywhere
2. there are far more security guards around
3. women don't feel safer on the streets at night
4. kids can't walk around by themselves, they must go on scheduled playdates

The Tories have glommed onto a feeling of uneasiness that most feel is true. Without a definitive answer to this question, it becomes political. What this may mean is that

1. we have too many immigrants
2. we resent our politicians from not taking a stand
3. the media incritically accepts academic studies and ignores facts on the ground


Getting to bottom of crime stats - thestar.com

Getting to bottom of crime stats


Re: Experts call crime rate study ‘embarrassing,’ Feb. 14

Whether Scott Newark’s study is “highly politicized” and without “statistical merit,” I am not in a position to judge. But surely it is misleading for the media and Statistics Canada to report that crime is going up or down given that they use only or mainly crimes known to the police that result in convictions.

As distinguished criminologists never tire of pointing out, crime statistics merely show “the tip of an iceberg.” What use is it to me to know that the “average” number of crimes is being referred to? What citizens want to know are the differential rates of crime within and between provinces, not the average for all provinces. It is the crime rates in their immediate and surrounding areas that are of great concern.

An official report of low crime is used glowingly by politicians to tout their party’s policies and to assuage the anxiety of citizens. Such a report is not necessarily suggestive of collusion. However, given Canada’s reputation for bureaucratic misdemeanors, a cynic might indeed suggest that it was.

It is surely not very meaningful to report that in the case of X, charged with multiple related crimes and convicted of only the most serious one, only one crime has been committed. X has been found guilty of only one crime; but other crimes were committed. Would X have been found guilty on the other related crimes? Maybe not, maybe yes. Using a conviction as the only evidence of the commission of a crime clearly minimizes the extent of crime. The recent G20 is a case in point.

Moreover, whether a crime is reported to the police depends on the victim‘s awareness of the crime as well as the ability and willingness to prosecute, and willingness to prosecute depends on whether there is faith in the fairness or efficiency of the justice system — which many citizens seemingly do not have. Police statistics are thus an imperfect mirror of crime, and should be used with caution by Statistics Canada.

Given that crime data depends on the concept of crime used as well as the procedures used to collate and report it, it follows necessarily that our explanations of crime data will be influenced by the assumptions implicit in the entire process.
Scott Newark’s study might not have met the strict standards of academic research, but does that necessarily undermine the validity of all his points?

Kenneth Aquan-Assee, Oakville
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
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Cars continue to be stolen even though some new cars are next to impossible to steal. Unlike the old days when one could push in a window and pull up a lock with a coat hanger, many new vehicles today are equipped with security everything. God help someone if they lock the keys inside. A person I know accidentally locked their keys inside their Mercedes. It was like to trying to break into a tank. They eventually had to get new keys flown out. It cost them several hundreds of dollars and about three days before they could drive again. Without the aid of a small nuclear device, that car would never be on a crime stat sheet.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
Go look at the amount of swarmings and group attacks/robberies on people in Halifax, in particular, the North End / Commons area..... and tell me that the crimes are going down. This past year has been pretty bad.

Not to mention the sleep watcher guy(s) in the south end who watch college/university girls sleep at night, either by looking in their windows or actually going inside and touching them.

Statistics tell you nothing.... just look through the local news papers daily and add up how many incidences you come across.

Let me take a look for the last day or so:

Sackville man arrested after vicious beating
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1230571.html

A man was nearly killed Friday night after a beating in Lower Sackville.

The victim, whose age hasn’t been released, arrived at an undisclosed Halifax hospital late Friday night and Halifax RCMP began investigating afterwards.

Staff Sgt. Scott Warnica, an RCMP spokesman, said the man showed up at the hospital with life-threatening injuries, but the officer didn’t know if the man’s condition had changed by Sunday afternoon.

Warnica didn’t know how the victim got to hospital, but he did have some information about the attack.
"I can say a weapon was used."

The weapon was said to be a baseball bat, but Warnica wouldn’t confirm that. He didn’t know if any weapons had been seized.

After the man arrived at the hospital, workers there contacted Halifax Regional Police. Regional officers called the RCMP after learning that the victim had come from Lower Sackville.

The RCMP later went to a house in the 100 block of Cobequid Road, secured the scene and arrested a man in connection with the case.

By late Sunday afternoon, no charges had been laid, but the suspect was still in custody.

Warnica did not know if the victim or the suspect lived at the Cobequid Road home.

Four teens charged after Dartmouth store robbed
http://thechronicleherald.ca/NovaScotia/1230582.html

Four teenagers will be in court today on robbery and weapons charges in connection with an early morning robbery in Dartmouth on Sunday.

Two males went into a Needs convenience store on Prince Albert Road at 3:15 a.m. One had a handgun and the pair ordered the clerk into a backroom.

The suspects took cash and cigarettes and fled, likely in a vehicle, police said. No one was hurt.

About six hours later, a Halifax RCMP officer stopped a vehicle on Caldwell Road and arrested two 16-year-olds and two 18-year-olds.

Police searched the vehicle and discovered property believed to have been stolen from Needs, plus a handgun, marijuana and hashish.

All four were being held overnight.

The two 16-year-olds have also been charged with Wednesday’s armed robbery of the New Penny Coin Shop in Dartmouth.

Now look in your own local news for your city/province's own crimes in the last day or two.

I didn't even look for these before I posted, I just knew there was going to be something..... and chances are, there will be more tomorrow...... now add them all up for a year and tell me if it's any safer out there then it was 20-30 years ago.
 
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darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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What has become of Halifax and Dartmouth. When I was a kid there these crimes were unheard of. Crime comes to places on TV in the movies and along with the music. These have become delivery systems for cultural disease.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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This is just another one of those subjects where statistics mean very little. Are crimes that aren't witnessed or reported or convicted counted? The only way of getting reliable statistics is to count the bodies.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,367
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Low Earth Orbit
Crime stats against children are the same as they were 30 years ago when kids roamed the streets freely playing ball, shinny and riding bike.

Wake up already.

The only thing that has changed is news people who craft linguistics to sensationalize a car crash in the Wal-Mart parking lot to trip off an emotional response that screws with your head and makes you actually buy a dollar store zit flashlight for 3 low payments of 55 freakin' dollars ea.

**** that. It just amazes me how gullible people are.
 

Trotz

Electoral Member
May 20, 2010
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Murder of Tim McLean - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Need I say more? Our immigration system allows men like Weiguang Li, who had a criminal record in China, to emmigrate to Canada and commit Crime. Hopefully, Mr. Harper will soon fix that once he has a majority in parliament.


Regardless, I have been told quite often that the crime rate in Kelowna and Penticton and in the rurals are much higher; which is a load of crock as I grew up in Vancouver and I can leave the door unlocked at a summer home in the interior, I can recognize criminals (whereas everyone looks the same in Richmond and Surrey) and I don't see people pushing drugs on street corners like back here.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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What has become of Halifax and Dartmouth. When I was a kid there these crimes were unheard of. .

I don't suppose the fact that more people live there has anything to do with it?

Are you people suggesting that 20 years ago, Halifax was a blissful place with no assaults or murders?
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
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I don't suppose the fact that more people live there has anything to do with it?

Are you people suggesting that 20 years ago, Halifax was a blissful place with no assaults or murders?


No, I'm suggesting that forty five years ago when I was a kid living there the crime was not as evident. Certainly things have changed for the worse I think.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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No, I'm suggesting that forty five years ago when I was a kid living there the crime was not as evident. Certainly things have changed for the worse I think.

Well, sure. There's quite a few more people there. If the percentage of nuts stays the same, you'd expect a lot more crime. 30 years ago, gays were beaten up on Citadel Hill.

45 years ago, in Halifax, only one gas station from each gas company could be open on Sundays. That only changed in the late 1970s or early 1980s.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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This is just another one of those subjects where statistics mean very little. Are crimes that aren't witnessed or reported or convicted counted? The only way of getting reliable statistics is to count the bodies.

This is pretty funny, the OP touched on the fact that StatsCan uses categories of crimes, and you come along now and think you can do better by counting bodies...what about crimes that don't leave bodies to count, what are you going to count to reflect those crime statistics?
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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Edmonton
Unreported crimes are way up.

If they are not reported how the hell would you know? That statement is a complete oxymoron.

As in all statistical data there has to be information to base numbers on. Crime stats are no exception. If fewer crimes are reported then there is little choice but to assume fewer crimes are being committed.