Religicide - The deliberate cleansing thru a variety of techniques including mass mur

[Goober]

Religicide - The deliberate cleansing thru a variety of techniques including mass murder.

Religious Cleansing /Mass Murder of Christians -Sikhs /Tamil/ Bahia's & other Muslim Minority Sects - Terror Attacks - No Govt action to prevent or apprehend- Middle East and other Countries - State sponsored Murder & suppression.

We in the West have witnessed this time and again - Christians /Religious Minorities targeted by another religion - resulting in mass murder - State sanctioned terror against Sikhs - Tamils -Christians and other minority Religious sects within a Country.

Some are perpetrated by fundamentalists - But many have the tacit or implicit and active support of the ruling Govt - Iran is yet again a clear example of Religicide.

Religicide - My personal definition as there is no Dictionary that recognizes this term. A word must achieve general and wide usage before it is accepted and is then defined.

State sponsored suppression of a specific religious group. A religious minority / sect/ offshoot of but not always the dominant religion within a State that may /will have strict religious beliefs and the interpretations of the majority / of the religion that controls the instruments of Power - Religion of that country considers these minorities to be heretics. Saudi Arabia is a clear example -

Examples include countries that have a massive majority of the population adhering to one particular branch of a religion. Where the dominant religion considers the minority beliefs to be heretical and against Gods will according to the dominating religious belief. Found in many countries in the Middle East /African Govts. Sudan /Nigeria as it is mainly Muslim in one area and Muslim in the other - Conflicts /Mass Murders arise where they meet over a number of things.

Found in many countries even those that proclaim they are democratic - India is one such country - where individual basic human rights are lacking, the basic protections and fundamental rights according to the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights of man and other safeguards found in a Western democratic country.

Countries where the Govt is controlled / influenced or an agreement is made to govern and sanctioned by religious figures - Again Saudia Arabia when it was founded. Using their Religious domination to arrest, torture, execute Religious minorities – prevented from attending schools of higher learning or subjected to strict quotas for employment, entrance to University , Govt Employment.

Using Religious differences to control the civilian population rather than address the issues of corruption, education. jobs, free expression, they use murder, imprisonment with or without a show trial. Followed by extreme sentences up to and including execution.
Actions by a Government to ostracize persons of a particular religious belief.

State sponsored pogroms - where the State either ignores or turns a blind eye or willingly participates -where specific religious groups are targeted for violent repression including mass murder. Court systems are rarely used to prosecute the perpetrators as many are controlled by the Govt. Again the Mass Murder of Sikhs in India is one clear case that has never been independently investigated. Reason many people in the Govt and other powerful organizations led and controlled the mass murder of Sikhs. - Egypt is another with the support of the Govt regarding attacks on Copt's who make up approx 10 % of the population

Active suppression approved by the Govt including exclusions for schools of higher learning, the ability to become members of an established and Govt recognized profession, business groups and trade unions or other similar groups and or organizations.

The active persecution resulting in “show trials” resulting in excessive jail terms and up to and including torture to gain confessions and sentenced to long prison terms or capital punishment.

Found in many Muslim countries, Malaysia along with India and - exception China - As China does not have a State Religion excepting the ultimate Power of the State - Religious beliefs are found to be in conflict with the Power of the State and are considered a threat to the Communist Party Elites resulting in many of the violations of basic Human Rights. Note the State sponsored persecution, long prison terms and executions of the Falun Gong. Rumour still persist that the Chinese Govt used members of the Falun Gong for forced organ removal, then they were sold. The prisoner would either die of be executed. This has not been fully proven or shown to be false.

India - Sikhs and Muslims and Christians have been killed by Hindu believers while only lip service is played out by the Govt in apprehending and prosecuting those that not only master mind the Murders but also sit in India's parliament. No action has ever been taken to apprehend these individuals. Why - They hold powerful positions within the Govt or are important religious figures.

The Mass Murder of Sikhs by Hindus after India Ghandi was assassinated is only one example of the complicity of the Indian Sate in the mass murder that was committed.

Christians in the Middle East have victimized by mass murders, violations of basic Human Rights, State Sponsored Terror - Iran and Egypt are just 2 of these countries -
Human Rights Council - Homepage

Some of the Countries on the UN Human Rights Council
Angola - Reports | Human Rights Watch
Argentina - Reports | Human Rights WatchBahrain - Reports | Human Rights Watch
Bangladesh - Reports | Human Rights Watch
Brazil - Reports | Human Rights Watch
Burkina Faso - Reports | Human Rights Watch
Cameroon - Reports | Human Rights Watch
Chile - Reports | Human Rights Watch
China - Reports | Human Rights Watch
Cuba - Search | Human Rights Watch
Djibouti - Search | Human Rights Watch
Ecuador - Search | Human Rights Watch
Gabon - Search | Human Rights Watch Ghana - Search | Human Rights Watch
Guatemala - Search | Human Rights Watch
Hungary - Search | Human Rights Watch
Jordan - Search | Human Rights Watch
Kyrgyzstan - Search | Human Rights Watch
Libyan Arab Jamahiriya - Search | Human Rights Watch
Malaysia - Search | Human Rights Watch
Pakistan - Search | Human Rights Watch
Qatar - Search | Human Rights Watch
Saudi Arabia - Search | Human Rights Watch

Countries not on the Council
Egypt - Search | Human Rights Watch
Sudan - Search | Human Rights Watch
India - Search | Human Rights Watch
Iran - Search | Human Rights Watch
Turkey - Search | Human Rights Watch
Ethiopia - Search | Human Rights Watch

Indira Gandhi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Persecution of Falun Gong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1984 Killing of 3000 Sikhs in Delhi by Goondas of Rajiv Gandhi

No justice for India's Sikhs | Schona Jolly | Comment is free | The Guardian

Iraq: Protect Christians from Violence | Human Rights Watch

Christians under attack - Riz Khan - Al Jazeera English

Sarkozy: Mideast Christians victims of ?cleansing? | Pitts Report

After Taseer Assassination: Some Muslims Refuse to Mourn - TIME

Death to Christians - The Globe and Mail

Christians Under Siege in the Muslim World - Photo Essays - TIME

LEBANON: The Christians Under Siege - TIME

The Global Radical Islamic Threat To Freedom: Ignore Or Excuse At Our Peril

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/opinion/06thu3.html

500 CHRISTIANS HACKED TO DEATH LAST NIGHT IN NIGERIA MUSLIM GENOCIDE END OF CHRISTIAN ERA | Dangers of Allah

 

[damngrumpy]

This has gone on for centuries and remember there was a time when the Christians were the
worst of the lot. Crusades remember those? In the middle ages the Christians murdered
those they regarded as witches or non believers. Sometimes the Christians killed other such
Christians because they didn't think like one group or another.
In fact one of the worst cases of ethnic cleansing based on religious principles was right here
in Canada. The British, ousted all those of French Heritage from the eastern maritimes and they
took over their lands. In the middle ages Christians went to the Middle East and claimed the
Holy Land. All those who were not Christians were regarded as enemies of Christianity. and
outright murdered. Yes there is killing and destruction of segments of the worlds population
I don't disagree with you, but what can and should be done? Are we going to send armies into
all these countries? We don't have enough soldiers for that. There are strange alliances as
well among the governments of the world. Sanity is only a concept when it comes to much of
the world, and at present it is not possible to achieve it. The only way to begin to correct some
of this and exercise our influence is to recognize our own mistakes and not go pointing
accusing fingers without addressing our own shortcomings. The only way to tell the true story
is to tell the whole story

 

[Goober]

This has gone on for centuries and remember there was a time when the Christians were the
worst of the lot. Crusades remember those? In the middle ages the Christians murdered
those they regarded as witches or non believers. Sometimes the Christians killed other such
Christians because they didn't think like one group or another.
In fact one of the worst cases of ethnic cleansing based on religious principles was right here
in Canada. The British, ousted all those of French Heritage from the eastern maritimes and they
took over their lands. In the middle ages Christians went to the Middle East and claimed the
Holy Land. All those who were not Christians were regarded as enemies of Christianity. and
outright murdered. Yes there is killing and destruction of segments of the worlds population
I don't disagree with you, but what can and should be done? Are we going to send armies into
all these countries? We don't have enough soldiers for that. There are strange alliances as
well among the governments of the world. Sanity is only a concept when it comes to much of
the world, and at present it is not possible to achieve it. The only way to begin to correct some
of this and exercise our influence is to recognize our own mistakes and not go pointing
accusing fingers without addressing our own shortcomings. The only way to tell the true story
is to tell the whole story

Yes it has gone on for centuries - Conflict between religions and mass murder committed by all. I am referring to the present day or last 30 to 40 years.

In many countries Christians are targeted by the Muslim majority - In Nigeria it is mainly where the 2 majority religions meet.

In Egypt the Copts have been the subject of ongoing persecution - With the active support of the ruling dictatorship - In Iran it is used against all that are not of the Shia beliefs.

In Saudi - Wahabi is the state religion under a deal brokered by Ibn Saud when he took power from the Hashemite- Strict controls - Minorities are treated like heretics at the least

India - mass murders yet nothing is done

The UN Councils are useless and I strongly believe that Western Countries should withdraw from such parts of the Un as the Human Rights Commission - They are and have a singular focus of Israel & Jews

Lastly - Why would / should we accept immigration from countries that have no basis in the barest form of human rights or even 1 step higher the basics of democracy.

India, China and Pakistan if I recall are the 3 countries that top the list for immigration to Canada. No I am not a white supremacist.

As to addressing our short comings - yes we have them and we also have a well entrenched Democracy with all the trimmings - The countries I mention have not even met the glimmer of Human Rights for all citizens

 

[Machjo]

As to the question of why we ought not accept immigration from countries with terrible human rights records, that reminds me of how Canada had turned back a boat-full of German Jews escaping Nazi Germany just prior to WWII. If anything, one would think they ought to get priority, if not as regular immigrants, then at least as refugees.

Consider too that much of the French Resistance based in England came from Vichy France, not the most respectful of human rights either.

And here's another question:

Should a Jewish father be allowed to send his child to public school at public expense in Ontario as his Catholic counterpart?

Personally, I'd say all or nothing, though lean more in favour of 'all', such as via a school voucher programme whereby parents could cash it in at any recognized school regardless of religious affiliation. That said, I also believe Israel needs to relax some of its discriminating rules against non-Jews. Clearly if I were anti-semitic, I would not be standing in defense of Jewish schools receiving the same funding as Catholic schools in Ontario.

As for other Arab states, yes, their situation is even worse than ours. But before we look across the pond while tramping on our own rights, let's clean up our own backyard. Then we'll be in a much stronger position to criticize others without retort.

 

[Goober]

As to the question of why we ought not accept immigration from countries with terrible human rights records, that reminds me of how Canada had turned back a boat-full of German Jews escaping Nazi Germany just prior to WWII. If anything, one would think they ought to get priority, if not as regular immigrants, then at least as refugees.

Consider too that much of the French Resistance based in England came from Vichy France, not the most respectful of human rights either.

And here's another question:

Should a Jewish father be allowed to send his child to public school at public expense in Ontario as his Catholic counterpart?

Personally, I'd say all or nothing, though lean more in favour of 'all', such as via a school voucher programme whereby parents could cash it in at any recognized school regardless of religious affiliation. That said, I also believe Israel needs to relax some of its discriminating rules against non-Jews. Clearly if I were anti-semitic, I would not be standing in defense of Jewish schools receiving the same funding as Catholic schools in Ontario.

As for other Arab states, yes, their situation is even worse than ours. But before we look across the pond while tramping on our own rights, let's clean up our own backyard. Then we'll be in a much stronger position to criticize others without retort.

So are you of the opinion that until we in Canada have achieved the Nirvana of Human Rights we should just shut up and ignore what is in many cases official govt Policy of Torture, repression, people disappearing in the night, show trials, then excessive prison terms or execution.

I am well aware of not only Canada's decision prior to WW2 but all of North and South America.

Why is it a problem to accept immigrants from many countries in South America - Eastern Europe for example.

As to refugees - Millions are in camps - run by the UN - Canada has one of the highest rates in the world for accepting refugees on a per capita basis. What would happen if the govt - Lib or Con stated that Canada would be accepting 1 Million refugees per year. Tell what the answer would be - tell me what problems we as a nation would incur.

Now your mention of Jews prior to WW2 - what relevance does it have today? You can live in the past, or choose to learn, adapt and move on to improved Human Rights.

Yes I am well aware of the plight of many First nations bands. So set that one aside.

Why are we in the West doing SFA about the deliberate persecution on Minorities in the countries I have mentioned.

 

[Machjo]

So are you of the opinion that until we in Canada have achieved the Nirvana of Human Rights we should just shut up and ignore what is in many cases official govt Policy of Torture, repression, people disappearing in the night, show trials, then excessive prison terms or execution.

I am well aware of not only Canada's decision prior to WW2 but all of North and South America.

Why is it a problem to accept immigrants from many countries in South America - Eastern Europe for example.

As to refugees - Millions are in camps - run by the UN - Canada has one of the highest rates in the world for accepting refugees on a per capita basis. What would happen if the govt - Lib or Con stated that Canada would be accepting 1 Million refugees per year. Tell what the answer would be - tell me what problems we as a nation would incur.

Well, it would seem being willing to accept refugees from such nations could be a start.

Secondly, Putting human rights into practice here could serve to help us better understand human rights abuses abroad and so be better prepared to tackle it. For example:

By understanding why it's so difficult to achieve equality for all religious groups in Ontario could help us to better understand religious discrimination abroad.

By understanding why we have failed to abide by treaties entered into in good faith here in Canada, we could then better understand the ethnic conflicts abroad.

After all, if we just brush our religiously and ethnically discriminatory policies here in Canada under the carpet, then how can we truly pretend to know how to solve these same problems abroad?

 

[damngrumpy]

To start with I think we should in fact adopt a policy of all schools being public schools that way
all the children will learn about each other. Setting one apart against each other when they are
young is one of the problems. We have to get past the idea that education is about the parents.
Education for the children is about the Children. I see nothing wrong with kids learning about
other languages, customs and religion if it will make a difference in a future world. I find the more
relationships will forge, and the more we know about each other the less we are likely to kill one
another.
As for allowing people to come here from war ravaged countries, and bringing the baggage of
hatred, I am not so sure for a few reasons. First we seem to be having problems with the idea
that we are a societal nation, not a tribal nation. Many who come here are still encumbered by
the change they are going to experience. I for one don't mind accommodating some changes but
be damned if I am going to give up my rights to make it pleasing to someone who thinks I am an
infidel if I don't. The other problem with all this immigration and refugee acceptance is that we get
ones who could afford to run and pay up front or through traffickers. In many cases we find later
they are among the worst offenders in the country of origin. Secondly, many of those entering our
country could be the educated ones who are needed in their homeland to make a better life in the
country of question. After civil wars, strife and chaos, how do we determine the aggressor from
the persecuted?
I understand that this chaos and murder is everywhere, but what can the west do about it? We
can't invade half the countries in the world and impose our civilization on them. One thing the UN
could spearhead is to ensure there is a viable economy and people have jobs and education that
allows them to build a middle class. Once that happens, people feel better about themselves and
they are preoccupied with building a better life for their kids and when that happens the shrill voices
of hate fade into the background. Think about it, when do we hear from the hate mongers and nut
cases in North America? When the economy threatens people economic and cultural stability.
If people truly have a superior way of life, they should not have to apply force to maintain it and
sustain it. Our best efforts lie in the ability to influence the better natures of those in that part of the
world and provide incentives for change. It is all that can be done, as many parts of the world
have not evolved from a tribal to a societal civilization that is just a fact of life.

 

[Goober]

So are you of the opinion that until we in Canada have achieved the Nirvana of Human Rights we should just shut up and ignore what is in many cases official govt Policy of Torture, repression, people disappearing in the night, show trials, then excessive prison terms or execution.

I am well aware of not only Canada's decision prior to WW2 but all of North and South America.

Why is it a problem to accept immigrants from many countries in South America - Eastern Europe for example.

As to refugees - Millions are in camps - run by the UN - Canada has one of the highest rates in the world for accepting refugees on a per capita basis. What would happen if the govt - Lib or Con stated that Canada would be accepting 1 Million refugees per year. Tell what the answer would be - tell me what problems we as a nation would incur.

Well, it would seem being willing to accept refugees from such nations could be a start.

Secondly, Putting human rights into practice here could serve to help us better understand human rights abuses abroad and so be better prepared to tackle it. For example:

By understanding why it's so difficult to achieve equality for all religious groups in Ontario could help us to better understand religious discrimination abroad.

By understanding why we have failed to abide by treaties entered into in good faith here in Canada, we could then better understand the ethnic conflicts abroad.

After all, if we just brush our religiously and ethnically discriminatory policies here in Canada under the carpet, then how can we truly pretend to know how to solve these same problems abroad?

Canada accepts refugees from a number of countries that have no Human Rights - So that point is not relevant

Putting Human rights in to practice in Canada - Do you see any minority that is actively persecuted, pogroms and mass murder, along with show trials, torture used to gain confession, lengthy prison terms from these trials and execution in Canada - Again not relevant

Why do you single out Ontario? I do not see mass murders in Ontario based upon religious beliefs - Again not relevant.

We in Canada as I stated previously have not and probably will never achieve the Nirvana or the fine balance of Yin & Yang culturally, ethnically or religiously so - Again not relevant.

 

[Machjo]

Canada accepts refugees from a number of countries that have no Human Rights - So that point is not relevant

Putting Human rights in to practice in Canada - Do you see any minority that is actively persecuted, pogroms and mass murder, along with show trials, torture used to gain confession, lengthy prison terms from these trials and execution in Canada - Again not relevant

Why do you single out Ontario? I do not see mass murders in Ontario based upon religious beliefs - Again not relevant.

We in Canada as I stated previously have not and probably will never achieve the Nirvana or the fine balance of Yin & Yang culturally, ethnically or religiously so - Again not relevant.

You seem to be exaggerating here. I've never lived abroad except Hong Kong and other parts of China, but can say that, Hong Kong aside, I did feel quite suffocated as far as freedom of religious organization go. That said, it was not nearly as bad as you portray it, not to mention that even in the short time I was there, I could sense a gradual improvement. And make no mistake about it, individual freedom of religion is well protected in China. Though granted as social beings, we still need the social organizational element.

So yes, the situation is China is worse than here, but the picture is by no means as black and white as you want to portray it. It's all shades of grey. Canada does discriminate in favour of certain religious groups though we still have freedom of religion. China grants freedom of religion, but only at an individual level with social organization being more restricted. This is hardly black and white, but shades of grey with Canada being a lighter shade than China. But grey is still grey.

Now if you're talking about Iran let's say, that may be a whole different matter. Yet even then, we should still go through the proper channels and not take the law into our own hands on the international stage.

And speaking of religion: Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

[Goober]

You seem to be exaggerating here. I've never lived abroad except Hong Kong and other parts of China, but can say that, Hong Kong aside, I did feel quite suffocated as far as freedom of religious organization go. That said, it was not nearly as bad as you portray it, not to mention that even in the short time I was there, I could sense a gradual improvement. And make no mistake about it, individual freedom of religion is well protected in China. Though granted as social beings, we still need the social organizational element.

So yes, the situation is China is worse than here, but the picture is by no means as black and white as you want to portray it. It's all shades of grey. Canada does discriminate in favour of certain religious groups though we still have freedom of religion. China grants freedom of religion, but only at an individual level with social organization being more restricted. This is hardly black and white, but shades of grey with Canada being a lighter shade than China. But grey is still grey.

Now if you're talking about Iran let's say, that may be a whole different matter. Yet even then, we should still go through the proper channels and not take the law into our own hands on the international stage.

And speaking of religion: Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

Machjo
I am not at all exaggerating - Have you read any of the links I provided?

I mentioned Countries that have perpetrated mass murders based upon a persons Religious beliefs

Your counter points mention Canada quite often - I had to use the examples of mass murders, torture, pogroms etc as you are not even reaching the standard of at least comparing apples and oranges.

China's religious Freedom you speak of is thru Churches where the State appoints Minister, Bishops, cardinals etc. That is not Religious Freedom by any means. It is State Controlled

The mass murder of Sikhs in India - Many of the leaders were or are still Members of political parties and over the years many have risen to positions of power. No impartial investigation was ever completed

Now to black and white and your opinion that it is mostly grey in China - What about the mass round up and imprisonment of Falun Gong members. Long prison terms, torture etc. That is not grey but clearly black and white. It is not difficult to make a distinction between China and Canada on this.

I did not bring up a specific Religion but a number of Religions - The thread is about Religious cleansing by the Govt - though the Govt itself may only represent a slight majority or even a minority of the population - they control the arms of power - Police - Security Services - Army and personally loyal Militias (or Death Squads in Iran)

 

[Machjo]

That's all nice. But do you honestly believe that a government that does not know how to deal with moderately discrimnatory religious legislation and passages in the Constitution will know how to deal with a problem 10 times its size abroad?

Common sense. It would be like expecting someone who does not know basic arithmetic to solve a complex algrebra question.

If our government could focus on solving our minor problems here, that would serve as a good training ground for how to solve bigger problems abroad. Until you pass grade one, you can't go on to grade two.

Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan right now. Iraq, though friendly towards the US, is also becoming friendly with Iran. And the highest levels of the Afghan government, though friendly with us, are also pushing opium. In fact, the Taliban was actually successful in suppressing opium production for the most part, bearing in mind that they were the ones turning a blind eye to it as a source of income in the war against the USSR and now against us.

The point is, if we can't solve our small problems here, how are we going to solve bigger problems abroad?

 

[Goober]

That's all nice. But do you honestly believe that a government that does not know how to deal with moderately discrimnatory religious legislation and passages in the Constitution will know how to deal with a problem 10 times its size abroad?

Common sense. It would be like expecting someone who does not know basic arithmetic to solve a complex algrebra question.

If our government could focus on solving our minor problems here, that would serve as a good training ground for how to solve bigger problems abroad. Until you pass grade one, you can't go on to grade two.

Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan right now. Iraq, though friendly towards the US, is also becoming friendly with Iran. And the highest levels of the Afghan government, though friendly with us, are also pushing opium. In fact, the Taliban was actually successful in suppressing opium production for the most part, bearing in mind that they were the ones turning a blind eye to it as a source of income in the war against the USSR and now against us.

The point is, if we can't solve our small problems here, how are we going to solve bigger problems abroad?

Machjo

You are in the box of until we have Human Rights Nirvana is Canada we cannot criticize, condemn other countries. As I have mentioned before we do not have the types of persecution in Canada that shall we say is rife in the Middle East

We are more likely to condemn Israel than Saudi - Israel than Egypt - Israel more than Syria.

You state that these Govts do not know how to deal with these problems - These Govts use the old Roman technique that has been used by many countries thru the centuries - Divide - Conquer - Separate - find an enemy outside of the State, Israel in this case and turn the main populations discontent with lack of jobs, corruption, towards minorities within the country.

Tunisia is just a recent example of riots over corruption. Lack of jobs and freedom. The Middle East and North Africa have a substantial population of youth that are ripe for revolution.

Lastly - Canada has provided assistance on Human rights, Governance, a legal system and more to many countries.

 

[captain morgan]

The point is, if we can't solve our small problems here, how are we going to solve bigger problems abroad?

The reason that Canada is saddled with having to deal with "our small problems" is due to the fact that Canada has dealt with the larger issues.

 

[Goober]

The reason that Canada is saddled with having to deal with "our small problems" is due to the fact that Canada has dealt with the larger issues.

Capt Morgan

I had the feeling, since proven that some of those that crap all over Israel, those that support Anti Apartheid Week, AKA Hate the Jew would not appear.

For all their spouting about Human Rights I wondered if they could defend the regimes that persecute persons of other faiths.

Seems they only believe in Human Rights for certain people, certain others are not to be included.

Makes a man wonder it does, makes a man wonder.

 

[Machjo]

Capt Morgan

I had the feeling, since proven that some of those that crap all over Israel, those that support Anti Apartheid Week, AKA Hate the Jew would not appear.

For all their spouting about Human Rights I wondered if they could defend the regimes that persecute persons of other faiths.

Seems they only believe in Human Rights for certain people, certain others are not to be included.

Makes a man wonder it does, makes a man wonder.

What kind of BS is this? I'd not even brought up Israel in this thread. And yes, before we criticize Israel, let's look at our own backyard.

As for the idea that Canada has solved its big problems and so can now stand as an authority for other nations, remember that these problems were solved from within in most cases, be it within the country or previously within the empire. When Canada sends troops abroad, we're then trying to solve their problems from without.

The issue is not with not wanting to promote human rights abroad, but rather with doing so the right way. We can't go into Iraq and dictate how they ought to treat the Kurds when we can't even honour our own treaties with the First Nations.

We can't go to Afghanistan and preach religious equality when our own constitution discriminates on the basis of religion.

If you care so much about human rights, then certainly you'd want to clear up our treaty obligations and discriminatory clauses of our constitution ASAP so that we can then get on with setting a firm example for other nations to emulate.

Human rights is not static, but a process. If Canada ceases from advancing in the field of human rights on the grounds that we are not the worst offenders, then we are sending a message to other countries that we don't really care about human rights except when it serves our own interests, as a pretext if you will. Other countries will respond to this impression without a doubt.

On the other hand, we our own country is constantly questioning itself and its own policies on a regular basis, then we are setting an example for other countries that we always need to advance and that we do take human rights seriously, not just when it benefits us materially, but as a principle independent of any material benefit.

To preach human rights abroad while ignoring it at home sends the clear message that human rights is just a pretext for other objectives.

 

[Skatchie]

To start with I think we should in fact adopt a policy of all schools being public schools that way
all the children will learn about each other. Setting one apart against each other when they are
young is one of the problems. We have to get past the idea that education is about the parents.
Education for the children is about the Children. I see nothing wrong with kids learning about
other languages, customs and religion if it will make a difference in a future world. I find the more
relationships will forge, and the more we know about each other the less we are likely to kill one
another.

This just creates problems. The kids segregate themselves and there is more violence. Parents actually need to take more control to fix our education system. That's why it's degraded so far. We let the government take too much control of everything. They've ruined it.

 

[Goober]

What kind of BS is this? I'd not even brought up Israel in this thread. And yes, before we criticize Israel, let's look at our own backyard.

As for the idea that Canada has solved its big problems and so can now stand as an authority for other nations, remember that these problems were solved from within in most cases, be it within the country or previously within the empire. When Canada sends troops abroad, we're then trying to solve their problems from without.

The issue is not with not wanting to promote human rights abroad, but rather with doing so the right way. We can't go into Iraq and dictate how they ought to treat the Kurds when we can't even honour our own treaties with the First Nations.

We can't go to Afghanistan and preach religious equality when our own constitution discriminates on the basis of religion.

If you care so much about human rights, then certainly you'd want to clear up our treaty obligations and discriminatory clauses of our constitution ASAP so that we can then get on with setting a firm example for other nations to emulate.

Human rights is not static, but a process. If Canada ceases from advancing in the field of human rights on the grounds that we are not the worst offenders, then we are sending a message to other countries that we don't really care about human rights except when it serves our own interests, as a pretext if you will. Other countries will respond to this impression without a doubt.

On the other hand, we our own country is constantly questioning itself and its own policies on a regular basis, then we are setting an example for other countries that we always need to advance and that we do take human rights seriously, not just when it benefits us materially, but as a principle independent of any material benefit.

To preach human rights abroad while ignoring it at home sends the clear message that human rights is just a pretext for other objectives.

Machjo -My post was not directed at you - I had the feeling, since proven that some of those that crap all over Israel, those that support Anti Apartheid Week, AKA Hate the Jew would not appear.

You appeared and I do not believe that you are in any way a racist - Hope this clarifies my post for you

 

[Machjo]

Machjo -My post was not directed at you - I had the feeling, since proven that some of those that crap all over Israel, those that support Anti Apartheid Week, AKA Hate the Jew would not appear.

You appeared and I do not believe that you are in any way a racist - Hope this clarifies my post for you

Fair enough.

But then we also need to clarify something else. Iran's persecution of the Baha'is, for instance, is atrocious. And yes, Canada ought to bring the issue up at the UN. At the end of the day though, seeing that Canada has no jurisdiction over Iran, it also follows that we ought not take any action, diplomatic, economic, military, cultural or otherwise, without the approval of the UN.

The same applies in reverse, by the way. To take one example, in 2006, a Jewish father, Grant Tadman, took the province of Ontario to the UN High Commission for Human Rights on the grounds that he had been discriminated against as a Jew by the Ontario Ministry of Education in favour of Catholics in the Pubic Education system, and the Commission agreed with him:

United Nations Human Rights Website - Treaty Bodies Database - Document - Jurisprudence - Canada

Yet the Ministry of Education of Ontario, along with the Ontario Government, opposed any changes to bring the system into conformity with contemporary international human rights norms. Now, if Israel ever took unilateral action against Canada over this, I'd be offended. That said, if Israel brought the issue forth to the UN for the international community to take action against Canada over this, that would be reasonable in that then it would be the international community as a whole that would be taking action against Canada and not a vigilante state taking the law into its own hands.

At the end of the day, it comes down to all countries abiding by the same rules. If Canada does not respect international rules, then we can't expect it of others either.

The same applies with Quebec's Bill 101 by the way:

Human rights in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Essentially the point is that Canada has no moral right to take unilateral military action against another country without explicit approval of the international community when we ourselves disrespect international laws.

As for Afghanistan, we did get that approval, with Iraq we did not and we did the right thing to not get involved in that. I would hope that Canada continues to respect international laws in that respect and will not initiate war with Iran for example again without the explicit approval of the international community, just as we would not want a country to attack Canada without a very valid reason to do so, along with all necessary checks and balances, to ensure it is in fact a valid and just war:

Just War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Trotz]

Islam has always been a religion of peace!

Mind you it's these same Bedouin Mohammedans who raped and massacred the Oriental Orthodox in the Middle East and Northern Africa and murdered and expelled the Greeks and Romans living there (800 AD).

Just like the Turkic Muslims in the Central East who formed the Mughal Empire and were intent on genociding the Hindu population.

 

[gopher]

Suppression of Native American religions by racist USA government:

Daily Kos: Indians 101: Suppressing Indians Religions in the Early 20th Century

It has also happened in Canada.