A Moonbase now. junk the ISS moneypit

[dumpthemonarchy]

Something is holding us back from settling the moon.

We ought to have a thriving Moonbase by now. The missile tech is old, it hasn't changed in decades. Can anyone recall anything useful being done on the ISS? It is the most wasteful moneypit I have ever heard of. It was supposed to be a halfway station to the moon. Then it was highjacked.

The tech to send cargo into space or the moon is well established. Before astronauts land on the moon, tons of cargo could be sent ahead of them on rockets and a habitation ready to live in.

Space travel will never be interesting to the masses until we have people living and working in space on a regular basis. Then the funding will be come because people and corporations will see the benefits on a daily basis. The research that could be conducted has huge potential, but nothing.

We rubes have been duped.


According to Wiki, the ISS has cost
International Space Station - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Costs
The cost estimates for the ISS range from 35 billion to 160 billion dollars.[26] ESA, the one agency which actually presents potential overall costs, estimates €100 billion for the entire station over 30 years.[25] A precise cost estimate for the ISS is unclear, as it is difficult to determine which costs should be attributed to the ISS programme, or how the Russian contribution should be measured.[26]

 

[Machjo]

I'm not against the exploration of space, but only once we've solved many earth-based problems first. Priorities I say.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

I'm not against the exploration of space, but only once we've solved many earth-based problems first. Priorities I say.

That'll never happen. We have billions of people who can't agree on anything, we can't in Canada. In other less democratic countries, people are held back from doing what they want to do. So they come here.

Time to move up and move on, we have the tech to go to the stars, there is no perfect time in the future, the future is now.

 

[Cliffy]

I would be more than happy to assist anybody who wants to leave the planet for points on the moon or other planets. I would be willing to carry their baggage and help load it on the ship, providing they only buy a one way ticket. Its a brave new solar system out there, hop on board.

 

[ironsides]

I think that by exploring space we will be able to solve some of the problem we now have here on the Earth and will have in the future.

 

[earth_as_one]

Why not have a moon base and the ISS? Its requires less energy to move material from the moon to the ISS orbit than from the earth to ISS orbit. Mining and manufacturing on the moon and near earth asteroids to make spacecraft will eventually be less expensive than trying to move material from the earth to space.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Why not have a moon base and the ISS? Its requires less energy to move material from the moon to the ISS orbit than from the earth to ISS orbit. Mining and manufacturing on the moon and near earth asteroids to make spacecraft will eventually be less expensive than trying to move material from the earth to space.

That was the idea of the ISS. But material still has to be shot up from Earth to the ISS. I say bypass the bloated ISS middleman and shoot the goods straight to the moon.Programming rockets and robots to do this is nothing new.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Then the funding will be come because people and corporations will see the benefits on a daily basis.

Not without a major PR campaign, and I think that's the real issue. People won't see the benefits until they're told what they are, they're far from obvious. Do you realize, for instance, that the miniaturization of electronics that makes possible the computers we're all using to have this conversation is partly an offshoot of the U.S. space program? How could anyone possibly quantify that? It's not possible to justify basic research on a short term cost/benefit basis. All of our modern computing and communication and power generation and distribution technologies are based on Maxwell's equations describing the electromagnetic field, and who could have foreseen that when he published them 150 years ago?

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Not without a major PR campaign, and I think that's the real issue. People won't see the benefits until they're told what they are, they're far from obvious. Do you realize, for instance, that the miniaturization of electronics that makes possible the computers we're all using to have this conversation is partly an offshoot of the U.S. space program? How could anyone possibly quantify that? It's not possible to justify basic research on a short term cost/benefit basis. All of our modern computing and communication and power generation and distribution technologies are based on Maxwell's equations describing the electromagnetic field, and who could have foreseen that when he published them 150 years ago?

Why a major PR campaign? Just redirect the money from the ISS moneypit to a moonbase. What research or industrial offshoot have come from the ISS? So people are bored by it.

The big PR space campaign is now space tourism. It is so bogus, it has no future. A moonbase is exploration and expansion of the human species. Some real R&D will happen there.

 

[earth_as_one]

That was the idea of the ISS. But material still has to be shot up from Earth to the ISS. I say bypass the bloated ISS middleman and shoot the goods straight to the moon.Programming rockets and robots to do this is nothing new.

The purposes of the ISS include learning how microgravity affects people, materials and material processing. Its also a platform and work space which is easier for people on earth to get to than the moon.

Its likely that in the future, large spaceships for travel in our solar system or beyond, will be built/assembled in space, just like the ISS was. The moon and near earth asteroids will eventually be a low energy source of raw materials. I expect that eventually we will be doing mining and refining on the moon and maybe even some component manufacturing, but the moon isn't as dust free or as low microgravity an environment as the ISS. So we need the ISS.

Now that the ISS exists, I doubt the world will abandon the it any time soon.

If your point is that the money spent on the ISS would have been better spent on robotic missions, then yes I agree.

But the ISS or something like it was an inevitable part of space exploration. Now that we have it, the wisest move would be to try to exploit the ISS as much as possible. The ISS doesn't prevent other space exploration activities, but it does reduce the available money and resources for these other projects.

 

[lone wolf]

I really want to see that first shipment of ore do it's re-entry thing....

 

[TenPenny]

Something is holding us back from settling the moon.

We ought to have a thriving Moonbase by now.

Why would you think that?

 

[petros]

ISiS is by far the best military high ground platform to date.

The eye in the sky...

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Why a major PR campaign?

Read my second sentence again.

What research or industrial offshoot have come from the ISS?

That's exactly my point; you don't know, because the story hasn't been told. And do you really think that what's spent on the ISS could sustain a permanent moon base? I'd expect it to be orders of magnitude more costly.

 

[petros]

“The Atlantis is carrying up all of our biology ad bio-technology experiments, that are being done by all the different partners for the space station – Japan, Europe, Canada – all have experiments on this flight. Also, It has the MRM – 1 in it, which is the Mini Research Module which gives Russia the space that they need for their laboratories in space. So it really enables research in bio-technology by the whole partnership,” says Robinson, who has an interdisciplinary background in the physical and biological sciences.
She says a vaccine development is a key area for research on the ISS.

Dr. Julie Robinson, Chief Scientist, International Space Station program, NASA.

“Different kind of bacteria become more virulent when they’re in space. And we’re trying to understand that virulence and see if we can use that to develop better treatments for illnesses. One that we’ve been working on in the past was Salmonella, which was the bacteria that causes food poisoning. Very important in the US as well as the developing world. Salmonella’s a huge health problem,” she explains.
The work done on the ISS has been validated too, with a possible treatment on the anvil.
“We’ve had the success with the Salmonella – there is a candidate vaccine that’s been developed and that’s been proposed to our regulatory agencies as a new drug – to the FDA (Food and Drug Administration). And it’s being evaluated now. It’s not a vaccine yet because it hasn’t been tested and proven to work in humans but its a good candidate vaccine,” says Dr. Robinson.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

The purposes of the ISS include learning how microgravity affects people, materials and material processing. Its also a platform and work space which is easier for people on earth to get to than the moon.

Its likely that in the future, large spaceships for travel in our solar system or beyond, will be built/assembled in space, just like the ISS was. The moon and near earth asteroids will eventually be a low energy source of raw materials. I expect that eventually we will be doing mining and refining on the moon and maybe even some component manufacturing, but the moon isn't as dust free or as low microgravity an environment as the ISS. So we need the ISS.

Now that the ISS exists, I doubt the world will abandon the it any time soon.

If your point is that the money spent on the ISS would have been better spent on robotic missions, then yes I agree.

But the ISS or something like it was an inevitable part of space exploration. Now that we have it, the wisest move would be to try to exploit the ISS as much as possible. The ISS doesn't prevent other space exploration activities, but it does reduce the available money and resources for these other projects.

The space bureaucrats would have the "planning" and "design" phases go on forever. The missile tech to go to the moon is over forty years old. We can get there, done. Let's get to the next level then. The next level of development is living and working on another terrestial body-the moon.

The moon is close by and it has water, and water is a key ingredient for survival and fuel to go to other planets. Launching rockets from the moon is easier than Earth because the moon's gravity is so much weaker. The moon is the launching base to Mars and beyond.

What is the point of spending billions of bucks to assemble spaceships in space? That means many people have to live up there, in the ISS which is old and will be abandoned soon. The point is not to travel through space like a tourist but to live on other planets and do research so we can get to other planets and build better and more rockets.

Why would you think that?

Because we have the missile tech to get to the moon, that means we can bring stuff there, like buildings and people. Then we can start working and living there. There has been a massive failure somewhere in NASA and space programs around the world. Sure, the Cold War distracted people until the 1990s, but in almost 20 years, nothing significant has been done in getting a base on the moon.

For the well over $100 billion bucks spent on the ISS, which has yielded nothing significant, we could have dropped a lot of stuff on the moon and few people to build a base.

The moon is only a few days away, all the time, it is not like Mars where we're close only once every few years. Why we have had such a pull back from the 1969 landing is a puzzle. Going to ISS is a joke. Hey, maybe the moon landing didn't happen, but then it would have had to be faked several times-scratch that.

 

[earth_as_one]

The ISS is pretty cool to watch flyover. Here is a link to give sighting times for your location.
Human Space Flight (HSF) - Realtime Data

If its a clear night, you can't miss it.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Read my second sentence again. That's exactly my point; you don't know, because the story hasn't been told. And do you really think that what's spent on the ISS could sustain a permanent moon base? I'd expect it to be orders of magnitude more costly.

It was the missions to the moon that brought many new tech achievements and spinoffs. One someone mentioned to me is the shell in race cars that cuts down on deaths when they crash and tumble. Another was cordless power tools, CAT and MRI scans. This story is now quite old and actually quite stale.

Perhaps a moon base would have been more expensive than the ISS, but the ISS is wearing out and will soon crash and become junk on Earth. A moon base can last forever. Put it in a crater to cut down on radiation for the astronauts and start expanding.


Here it says the tech exists to go there and its loaded with resources.

Homer Hickam: How About a Moon Base? - WSJ.com

<LI class=dateStamp>DECEMBER 14, 2010How About a Moon Base?

NASA's great engineers can pull it off without vast amounts of money. They merely need to be given the mission.

How about the moon? It's close, it's loaded with resources, and we can get there with existing technology.

Build a station there, like the National Science Foundation's South Pole Station, and invite the world to join us. We'll give our technological prestige a sorely needed boost, and something else will also happen: New and wondrous products based on NASA requirements for metallurgy, composite materials, solar arrays, computers and batteries will boost our economy, just as the technologies of the Apollo mission did.

It happened once, it could happen again. Worth a try, senators.

Mr. Hickam, the author of "Rocket Boys," "Back to the Moon" and "The Dinosaur Hunter," is a former NASA engineer.

“The Atlantis is carrying up all of our biology ad bio-technology experiments, that are being done by all the different partners for the space station – Japan, Europe, Canada – all have experiments on this flight. Also, It has the MRM – 1 in it, which is the Mini Research Module which gives Russia the space that they need for their laboratories in space. So it really enables research in bio-technology by the whole partnership,” says Robinson, who has an interdisciplinary background in the physical and biological sciences.
She says a vaccine development is a key area for research on the ISS.

Dr. Julie Robinson, Chief Scientist, International Space Station program, NASA.

“Different kind of bacteria become more virulent when they’re in space. And we’re trying to understand that virulence and see if we can use that to develop better treatments for illnesses. One that we’ve been working on in the past was Salmonella, which was the bacteria that causes food poisoning. Very important in the US as well as the developing world. Salmonella’s a huge health problem,” she explains.
The work done on the ISS has been validated too, with a possible treatment on the anvil.
“We’ve had the success with the Salmonella – there is a candidate vaccine that’s been developed and that’s been proposed to our regulatory agencies as a new drug – to the FDA (Food and Drug Administration). And it’s being evaluated now. It’s not a vaccine yet because it hasn’t been tested and proven to work in humans but its a good candidate vaccine,” says Dr. Robinson.

Just more inside the system work by tedious bureaucrats happy to get a paycheque. Salmonella is not a major killer in the world, check it out at WHO.

 

[ironsides]

That was the idea of the ISS. But material still has to be shot up from Earth to the ISS. I say bypass the bloated ISS middleman and shoot the goods straight to the moon.Programming rockets and robots to do this is nothing new.

That will happen as soon as we can efficiently convert elements on the moon to make such a base self supporting. Then our solar system will be our mining grounds.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

That will happen as soon as we can efficiently convert elements on the moon to make such a base self supporting. Then our solar system will be our mining grounds.

According to the link I posted above from the Wall Street Journal, we can already do this with existing tech. The question is why we aren't doing this right now.

The problem could be that the USA seems to need a "story" of some sort. Like the actor that asks the director of the scene, "What's my motivation?" The director replies, "A job, you moron, do it." A bit of butt kicking is required here as all the tools are ready.

This could be one reason why so many say the USA has lost its leadership role in the world. Got a chance to work on the sexiest and most technologically project known to man, and they're sitting in the rec room playing video games and watching pornos. Pardon me while I yawn.