Obamacare Unconstitutional?

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,665
113
Northern Ontario,
Next step ...the Supreme Court!

RICHMOND, VA (RNN) - A Virginia judge struck down a portion of the health care law that requires an individual to purchase health insurance or face a penalty.

U.S. District Court Judge Henry E. Hudson ruled in a Richmond, VA, court Monday that that portion of the law is unconstitutional.

The mandatory coverage law was not scheduled to take effect until 2014.

Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli filed the lawsuit challenging the law.

The ruling will be appealed by the Obama administration, said Cuccinelli, in a statement issued on his official website.

"This won't be the final round, as this will ultimately be decided by the Supreme Court," he said. "But today is a critical milestone in the protection of the constitution."

Hudson is the first judge to strike down the law, which had been upheld by two others in Virginia and Michigan.

Twenty-five similar lawsuits are pending across the country, including one in Florida in which 20 states are a party.

Cuccinelli has called the victory a celebration of the same principles our founding fathers articulated over 200 years ago.

"We are proud to defend their work and the same first principles today in the 21st century," he said.

District judge: Parts of healthcare law ruled unconstitutional - WMBFNews.com | Myrtle Beach/Florence, SC | News, Weather, Sports
 

Icarus27k

Council Member
Apr 4, 2010
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Actually, the next step is several U.S. Courts of Appeals. I say "several" because other federal judges at the same level as this one (Henry Hudson) have ruled just the opposite (that the individual mandate is constitutional).
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
108,748
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Low Earth Orbit
16,500 more IRS agents needed to enforce Obamacare


New tax mandates and penalties included in Obamacare will cause the greatest expansion of the Internal Revenue Service since World War II, according to a release from Rep. Kevin Brady, R-Texas.
A new analysis by the Joint Economic Committee and the House Ways & Means Committee minority staff estimates up to 16,500 new IRS personnel will be needed to collect, examine and audit new tax information mandated on families and small businesses in the ‘reconciliation’ bill being taken up by the U.S. House of Representatives this weekend. ...
Scores of new federal mandates and fifteen different tax increases totaling $400 billion are imposed under the Democratic House bill. In addition to more complicated tax returns, families and small businesses will be forced to reveal further tax information to the IRS, provide proof of ‘government approved’ health care and submit detailed sales information to comply with new excise taxes.
Americans for Tax Reform has a good breakdown of the bill by the numbers.
Isn't it reassuring that at a time of recession, government will do what's necessary to ensure its growth?






 

Icarus27k

Council Member
Apr 4, 2010
1,508
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38
Q: Will the IRS hire 16,500 new agents to enforce the health care law?

A: No. The law requires the IRS mostly to hand out tax credits, not collect penalties. The claim of 16,500 new agents stems from a partisan analysis based on guesswork and false assumptions, and compounded by outright misrepresentation.


Source: IRS Expansion | FactCheck.org
 

Icarus27k

Council Member
Apr 4, 2010
1,508
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Yeah. The logic of why the claim is untrue is written out in detail at FactCheck.org, an objective website run by the University of Pennsylvania's Annenberg Public Policy Center.
 

Icarus27k

Council Member
Apr 4, 2010
1,508
7
38
It will only be 10,000 new agents? Tieing taxation to healthcare is just plain idiocy.

Even if it were 10,000 new agents (which it wont be), hiring them for the purpose of giving taxpayers money in the form of tax credits from the health care law sounds acceptable.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,665
113
Northern Ontario,
Actually, the next step is several U.S. Courts of Appeals. I say "several" because other federal judges at the same level as this one (Henry Hudson) have ruled just the opposite (that the individual mandate is constitutional).
The reason I said ...next step the supreme court.... because it will ultimately end there when all 25 states that have brought a lawsuit have been heard at lower levels
Maybe in about two years....about the same time as the next presidential election???
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
138
63
Location, Location
I understood that it is the part that forces people to buy healthcare that was booted.

Neither the Supreme Court nor any federal circuit court of appeals has extended Commerce Clause power to compel an individual to involuntarily enter the stream of commerce by purchasing a commodity in the private market," the judge concluded.
 

Icarus27k

Council Member
Apr 4, 2010
1,508
7
38
I understood that it is the part that forces people to buy healthcare that was booted.
That quote from Judge Hudson's ruling is a perfect example of cherry picking facts to make it seem like your case is stronger than it really is. While it is true that neither the Supreme Court nor a federal appeals court has ruled on whether the individual mandate is constitutional or not, two federal district court judges (the same level judge as Hudson) has just recently ruled that the mandate is perfectly constitutional.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
I can't believe some people, Americans are the last people in the world to understand that medicare is
a benefit to the society, the individual and the economy in general. The companies would like universal
medicare it cuts down on those fat cat insurance companies. I don't think the system is perfect but it
sure beats mortgaging your house. We are in the 21st century in case some people missed the calandar
change. Advanced societies have found a way to deal with the concept a long time ago. There is a small
group of people who want to hold onto manipulating the system for their own wealth, and then there is the
religious who use it to condemn abortion, and so on. I don't think the Americans understand how funny they
look to the rest of the world, while they cry bloody murder about a system that is an improvement, the
other people in the advanced world are getting comic relief watching their behaviour. As for Obama and
medicare, in my opinion he didn't go far enough. To even suggest Obama is a communist or a left winger
is in fact a joke. His problem comes from the belief, that some people will eventually want to compromise.
The Republicans don't want to compromise, they want their power back. Obama should push the things
through and let people begin to enjoy them, for a few years, it is what every other progressive government
with guts has done for a hundred years. Obama should do something instead of talking everything to death.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
17,466
138
63
Location, Location
It doesn't matter if it's a benefit to society, the issue for Americans is whether or not they want to be forced to have it.

Americans have a different outlook on these things than Canadians do. Whether it's a net benefit or not has nothing to do with the politics of it.
 

The Old Medic

Council Member
May 16, 2010
1,330
2
38
The World
Once again, someone posts that simply has no understanding of how the US Courts (or the entire governmental system) works.

As has been pointed out, this will go to the Federal Court of Appeal that has jurisdiction over Virginia. Just as other cases will go to their respective Courts of Appeal. Then, if those Courts also have disparate rulings, the Supreme Court will almost undoubtedly take this up eventually (that may well take years to get there). If any of those Courts rule against the parties, then those parties will try to take the case to the Supreme Court (which does NOT have to take the case, if they don't want to).

The really important case will be heard in Florida. That is the case where 20 State Attorney's General are suing the government because of a variety of things that are being imposed on the States. It is almost certain that this will result in a ruling against the US Government.

The House of Representatives will NOT provide any funding to hire any IRS agents to oversee Obamacare. The Republicans have stated very clearly that they will not fund ANYTHING to do with this program. Without funding, it will remain ineffective, and unenforceable, regardless of what the courts may eventually decide.

Without the House of Representatives voting for funding, there is absolutely nothing that the administration can do.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,778
454
83
In other news, public health care revenue will be used to supply Obama's 5 billion dollar trips to India. This objective report was brought to you by your friendly neighbourhood right-wing think tank.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
A lot of what Obama is doing is uncnstitutional.

More evidence emerging that that Constitution supporters are considered “domestic threats
By Douglas Hagmann & Judi McLeod Full Story


A report published today by Kurt Nimmo states that a Department of Homeland Security fusion center in Florida conducted surveillance on Ron Paul supporters and other political groups. A law enforcement sensitive bulletin dated 4 June 2010, issued by the Central Florida Intelligence Exchange, identified one event hosted by Ron Paul’s Campaign for Liberty that was subjected to official intelligence monitoring by that arm of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. Mr. Nimmo notes that the Central Florida Intelligence Exchange was established with the assistance of an $850,000 Department of Homeland Security grant, which is your tax dollars at work. The center is specifically tasked with looking for terrorist leads.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
Dood! Who set up Homeland Security? Who passed the patriot Act? Who declared war on a sovereign nation under false pretenses?

Republicans are grabbing at straws to get dirt on Obama that Bush started under the Republican watch. But it is a mute point because there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats, or Bush or Obama. The constitution is just a piece of paper. Dubbya was right. It means nothing to those who are really in control. Some day it might just sink in what is going on down there (and everywhere) if people would just stop getting caught up in petty emotionally charged issues that keep them blinded to what is really going on. You are not the land of the free. You are no different than we are - chattel, corporate assets whose only value to the ruling class is your slave labour to the machine. People have been whining and complaining for a hundred years and yet the situation just keeps getting worse. There is only a controlled illusion of freedom. Until that reality sinks in, we will all just go along complaining and getting deeper in dept and nothing will ever be done about it. Dept is slavery. Either get used to it or do something about it.