Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan
Paperboys, servers and puppet masters don't plant IEDs, throw acid in little girls' faces and spray crowds of innocents with automatic gun fire in order to force their "rights' to exist above yours, do they?
Irrelevant emotional jargon...... Paperboys, Servers and Puppet Masters don't carpet bomb villages, killing dozens of civilians and then turn to the media and claim they had it coming because they were in their villages when they wanted to take out one or two Taliban.
... So were the victims of those serial killers and child molesters; they too deserve the very rights that people like Jeff Dhamer, Hitler, Jim Jones and Omar Khadr have eviscerated in pursuing their own selfish agendas.
Which is why people like the above are sent to courts to seek justice in the first place, otherwise nothing would be done..... and considering it's not the victims on trial, the above is also irrelevant emotional jargon.
Selfish agendas? Which ones are those, them seeking actual justice?
There is no justice served when someone is thrown into a kangaroo court that's designed to only hand out guilty verdicts.... there is no truth sought, there are no facts proven, thus there is no real justice to victims because the truth never really comes out and all that is served is the desire for revenge..... regardless if that revenge is trusted upon the truly guilty person or an innocent person.... so long as someone suffers that's all that seems to matter.
I understand quite well that victims should have justice served and make sure those who made them into victims are punished accordingly, which would make you think they'd want a Real Court using Real Laws and Real Due Process
being used to get to the truth, rather then using a court system that ignores internationally accepted rules and regulations towards justice and law and a system that continually judges their captured as guilty long before they ever step foot in that court.
May or may not?.. He admitted it. Had he not done so, he should have manned-up and plead his innocence and reaped his rewards through the courts... Further, it takes a lot of balls to blame the medic for Khadr's murderous and cowardly actions.
Oh, so he should have pleaded his innocence should he?
Funny, I thought that's what he's been continually doing for the last friggin 8 years...... clearly it wasn't working and they were just going to stall his case for as long as it took for him to eventually break and confess so he could get the hell out of there, rather then rot there for the rest of his life.
And I know damn well that if you were tossed into the exact same situation at the age of 15 right up until now and you knew you were innocent, yet continually told by everybody around you that you're guilty, you were tortured and threatened with rape and getting attacked by dogs, have your country abandon you and have your country's intelligence agency turn a blind eye and faced more and more years of this continual abuse until you confessed, you would have probably cracked sooner then he did and admitted guilt so you could go home..... so don't stand there and act all high and mighty like you're the omnipotent perfection of mankind for all to adhere to.
Oh and about me blaming the medic for a "murderous and cowardly act?"
Well, considering he was supposed to be the trained soldier, Omar apparently wasn't a "Soldier" and Omar was a 15 year old kid that seemed to get the upper hand on a trained soldier whom was part of a force that started the fight in the first place and attacked them without warning..... and at best, Omar was defending himself after already being wounded, followed by being shot twice in the back by a cowardly US Soldier while he was unarmed..... you tell me who should have been more responsible in this situation.
One would think the "Trained Soldier" who started the fight in the first place would do a little better then get killed by a 15 year old kid, whom by the US's words, wasn't a "Soldier"...... yet at the same time the US claims was a member of a terrorist organization in which they declared war on (War on Terrorism after all)
The brain-washed angle is nothing more than an excuse... There are plenty of people that have been manipulated pyschologically and not killed.
Wow, way to completely miss the mark with your comparisons. Not everybody brainwashed is tossed into a war zone to kill..... some are brainwashed into religious cults to cut off their balls and commit suicide so they can be teleported to an alien vessel hiding behind a passing comet.
Maybe you should get a little education on what Brainwashing is all about so that you can actually discuss the topic of brainwashing with a little intelligence and understand what point was being made.
Hold the US accountable but not Khadr?... Great, really great.
You're damn right it's great..... at best, Omar was defending himself after already being wounded..... what the US did after the conflict due to their embarrassment of losing one of their own trained soldiers at the apparent hands of a little kid is exactly where human rights and international laws went out the window.
Hmmmm, toss all the blame on a brainwashed 15 year old kid who was dragged over there by his lunatic father as opposed to tossing the blame on one of the world's leading and more powerful countries in the world whom are supposed to stand for freedom, democracy and all that other crap the UN and every other western nation believes in..... and using their blood lust for vengeance to publicly witch hunt a little kid rather then doing the right thing in the first place....... yeah, I'll blame the US and hold them accountable.
So, the only court you'll recognize as legitimate is the one that holds Khadr innocent?
You don't read very well do you?
Here, let me shove it back into your face again so you can take your time, read it slowly and perhaps learn something for once:
"his right to due process and true justice was averted, therefore any final conclusions that come from this mockery of a court system are invalid imo..... even if the court system found him innocent."
The Medic's right to life was slightly violated too.... Ever consider that?
I personally don't give a rats ***..... he was a soldier, he voluntarily joined up to serve, he went over there to fight an illegitimate war against people who were not directly responsible for what happened on 9/11 and in the military during a time of war..... there is always the risk of being killed in some way. He knew this, every friggin soldier out there knows this and if he couldn't hack this and if he couldn't accept this fact, maybe he shouldn't have signed up in the first damn place.
You can't join the military, go off to war, start blowing things up and killing people, get shot or killed by the enemy in the middle of combat and then cry foul because that's not what you had in mind.
Frig get a clue.
Right to Life indeed.... what about Omar's Right to Life? At the time he apparently tossed the grenade, he was already wounded and blinded in one eye..... they started the attack, he was seriously injured.... in my books and in the books of just about every other court system out there, that's justifiable action in order to preserve one's own life, especially when one fears that their life is in danger.
AKA: Self Defense.
You might have an argument for his so-called "Right to Life" if he was a civilian, and even if he was a civilian..... where's the protection of one's "Right to Life" for all the countless civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq that were murdered by the US?
Oh that's right, they're Muslims..... they're not the same level of human as the rest of us, I forgot...... and people wonder why there are some out there who don't like us.
Says you... Is that 'cause Khadr flip-flopped or because you didn't get the only "truth" that you'll accept?
Neither, it's because, as I have already explained to you, they created this illegitimate court system that was not only bias, illegal and un-recognized by any other country, it ignored all recognized human rights and protections even the US claimed to uphold..... but it was designed to find those in the court guilty and nothing but guilty.
Because of that, any final ruling by this court, innocent or guilty, would be at fault because true justice was never meant to be sought in the first place.
Sez me, sez the UN and sez many others and many other countries who already go their citizens back years ago after they pleaded guilty in order to go home.
And still isn't served... A known, convicted and admitted killer will soon be walking amongst us.
A conviction in an illegitimate court not recognized by any other nation, government or the UN for that matter is no conviction at all...... and an admission of guilt in a farce is no real admission.
The Gitmo courts were never designed for real truth or for real justice, thus why provide a "Real" plea?
Interesting point... What would he have been considered in Afghanistan?
Doesn't matter considering US invented rules and laws have been applied to this situation, and in both the US, Canada and the rest of UN Member nations, he's still considered a child, regardless of whatever kind of Monkey show the US can invent..... that's all that matters.
Besides, since when did the US ever give a damn about what people think or consider in Afghanistan?
Quote: Originally Posted by Cliffy
No, you don't know that he killed anybody. You only have hear say evidence from the US military, the same military that thinks collateral damage is just a fact of war, that has violated every human rights law on the planet and has been and continues to cover up its many war crimes and criminals. The same military that had just killed a number of the kid's family and friends. Even if he did throw a grenade, he was just trying to protect himself from the murderous thugs that were approaching his position. How was he to know one of them was a medic? If you want to believe them, that is your right, but from their track record, I will not believe a single word that is uttered by any one of them.
Considering the documents that were never shown in his case pointing at the contradictions in the US soldier's stories about who was alive at the time of the grenade being tossed, who they actually saw toss the grenade and claimed they killed after the fact, and the fact that much of that information was edited and re-written after the fact to suit the story that it was only Omar left alive to toss the grenade, therefore it must have been he who did it.
Even though based on their obviously modified and contradictory records, not one single soldier involved saw him throw the grenade in the first place.
With the above alone, that's more then enough to warrant reasonable doubt.
By the way, here's some related news on this case:
Omar Khadr is seen on the third day of his sentence trial at Camp Justice
on Guantanamo Bay on Wednesday in this sketch by courtroom artist
Khadr’s lawyers aim to discredit psychiatrist
Khadr?s lawyers aim to discredit psychiatrist - Canada - TheChronicleHerald.ca (external - login to view)
GUANTANAMO BAY, Cuba — A Danish psychologist who believes Muslims are raised to be aggressive and that inbreeding has damaged their genes informed a damning expert opinion of the risk Omar Khadr poses to public safety, court heard Wednesday.
Under cross-examination by defence lawyers, Dr. Michael Welner said he talked to Nicolai Sennels before coming to the conclusion that the Canadian-born Khadr was "highly dangerous" — an opinion he gave Tuesday on the first day of Khadr’s sentencing hearing......
....... "If a Muslim does not react aggressively when criticized he is seen as weak, not worth trusting and he thus loses social status immediately," Sennels wrote.
In another article, Sennels, 34, attributed a host of problems within the Islamic world to intermarriage among first cousins.
"Massive inbreeding within the Muslim culture during the last 1,400 years may have done catastrophic damage to their gene pool."
Sennels has also stated that Muslim integration into western societies is not possible, a view Welner called "political."..........
........ Testifying for a second day, Welner found his credibility under attack as the defence hammered him for being selective in his depictions of Khadr.
Welner had testified on Tuesday that Khadr was only interested in the Quran, and had shown little interest in western literature.
However, during testy exchanges with defence lawyer Maj. Matthew Schwartz, Welner conceded Khadr had indicated little interest in the Qu’ran before being shipped to Guantanamo.
He also testified Khadr had in fact read books by South African President Nelson Mandela, U.S. President Barack Obama, and even romance writer Danielle Steele.
He qualified his view by saying Khadr’s dangerousness lay in his ability to be "inspiring and be incendiary" to other radical Islamists.
Khadr, 24, who smiled and chatted with his lawyers, grew pensive as Welner testified, at times glaring at him.
Welner admitted that professional colleagues did not review his opinion to ensure a lack of bias.
It was also the first time he had assessed a radical jihadist for any risk to public safety.
After interviewing Khadr for seven hours earlier this year, Welner concluded that the detainee did not have any mental illness.
Later Wednesday, court heard the first of what are expected to be several victim-impact statements. Former special forces sergeant Layne Morris described how he was hit in the head by shrapnel during the 2002 raid on the compound where Khadr was captured.
He thought he had been shot and was "standing there dead," Morris testified, at times finding it difficult to stay composed.
"It was complete despair — I would not get to see my kids again."
Morris lost sight in one eye and later successfully sued Khadr’s late father in a Utah court, winning a judgment in the tens of millions of dollars.
Well that's the risk you take when you join up in the military...... to expect those you're shooting at and attacking with intent to kill to not somehow try and fight back to defend themselves..... is quite honestly retarded.
"I was in complete despair - I would not get to see my kids again."
Sorry, that just sounds like a ***** response if you ask me.... blubbering like a baby over what could have happened, which never did. He was in a combat operation, which was dangerous (usually combat operations are)..... He's still alive.... quit your wincing.
And how the hell did he manage to sue Omar's dead father who obviously couldn't testify..... and win tens of millions of dollars in the process?
Where's that tens of millions of dollars going to come from? Are they going to make a portal into the afterlife to hunt him down with his 72 virgins and shake all the loose change out of their g-strings?
This has turned into such a soap opera for the US public it's just ridiculous..... military soldiers sobbing as they recall how they thought they were going to die, but weren't...... US officials standing up in front of the cameras with their chests all puffed out and bragging that justice was served and without a shadow of doubt the person they're holding is guilty.... .psssh....... and an overly-biased Danish psychologists coming along and claiming he's some Uber dangerous lunatic ready to blow himself up the first chance he gets...... as if the Danish aren't known for their bigotry against anything Muslim and then later being chewed apart by the defense over obvious blunders, bias and misinformation on his part..... which no doubtfully will be ignored by the US goons running the show and still consider it all as valid........
...... I guess some countries still need some time to move into the 21st century.
Next up in the courts will be Galileo Galilei
for suggesting the Earth revolves around the Sun.
Last edited by Praxius; Oct 28th, 2010 at 11:58 AM..