Chancellor Angela Merkel declares "Multiculturalism has failed"

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
108,893
11,177
113
Low Earth Orbit
POTSDAM, Germany — Germany's attempt to create a multicultural society has "utterly failed," Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Saturday, adding fuel to a debate over immigration and Islam polarizing her conservative camp.
Speaking to a meeting of young members of her Christian Democrats (CDU), Merkel said allowing people of different cultural backgrounds to live side by side without integrating had not worked in a country that is home to some four million Muslims.
"This (multicultural) approach has failed, utterly failed," Merkel told the meeting in Potsdam, south of Berlin.

She said too little had been required of immigrants in the past and repeated her usual line that they should learn German in order to get by in school and have opportunities on the labor market.
The debate over foreigners in Germany has shifted since former central banker Thilo Sarrazin published a book accusing Muslim immigrants of lowering the intelligence of German society.
Sarrazin was censured for his views and dismissed from the Bundesbank, but his book proved highly popular and polls showed a majority of Germans agreed with the thrust of his arguments.



Merkel has tried to accommodate both sides of the debate, talking tough on integration but also telling Germans that they must accept that mosques have become part of their landscape.
She said on Saturday that the education of unemployed Germans should take priority over recruiting workers from abroad, while noting Germany could not get by without skilled foreign workers.
In a weekend newspaper interivew, her Labor Minister Ursula von der Leyen (CDU) raised the possibility of lowering barriers to entry for some foreign workers in order to fight the lack of skilled workers in Europe's largest economy.

"For a few years, more people have been leaving our country than entering it," she told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung. "Wherever it is possible, we must lower the entry hurdles for those who bring the country forward."
The German Chamber of Industry and Commerce (DIHK) says Germany lacks about 400,000 skilled workers.

Yet Horst Seehofer, chairman of the Christian Social Union (CSU), the CDU's sister party, has rejected any relaxation of immigration laws and said last week there was no room in Germany for more people from "alien cultures."
 
Last edited:

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,778
454
83
"Adopting a language has failed."

Actually, scrap that. It should be obvious that one of the unfortunate repercussions of any infusion of multiple cultures is that the economy will suffer. Sucks, but that is how it's going to be for a while.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
108,893
11,177
113
Low Earth Orbit
Sounds like she wants a "united Europa with a fatherland for all us all, and all the foreigners out."

That sounds vaguely familiar.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
108,893
11,177
113
Low Earth Orbit
Yup, Sarkozy is openly fascist.

I once heard that Merkel was Hitler's daughter through Braun's sister. LOL
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
108,893
11,177
113
Low Earth Orbit
She said on Saturday that the education of unemployed Germans should take priority over recruiting workers from abroad, while noting Germany could not get by without skilled foreign workers.
Bayer is still around. They figured out what to do last time this was brought up.


Crack open the old filing cabinets and IBM cards and just replace the word "Juden" with "Muslim" and away we go.
 

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
2,014
24
38
Calgary, AB
So why is it "fascist" to want immigrants to conform to your culture rather than make you adopt to theirs and to want them to contribute to your country rather than be a drain on it? If things were so wonderful "back home" why didn't the immigrants stay there?

When you move to another country you are making a conscious decision to go and to live by their rules. A society shouldn't have to change to suit those who attempting to become part of it.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
So why is it "fascist" to want immigrants to conform to your culture rather than make you adopt to theirs and to want them to contribute to your country rather than be a drain on it?

It's fascist to want immigrants to conform, because fascism among it's other aspects, is a system where individualism is rejected in favour of a monolithic identity. Pluralism and fascism are immiscible.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
It's fascist to want immigrants to conform, because fascism among it's other aspects, is a system where individualism is rejected in favor of a monolithic identity. Pluralism and fascism are immiscible.


In the 60's Germany imported large numbers of unskilled laborers, mostly from Turkey. - No entitlement to citizenship at a later date - If I recall they could not bring their families etc - that was changed a few years or more ago -

The Germans thought that these guest workers would stay for a period of time and then leave - They were wrong.

The Turks and others for the most part lived within their own ethnic communities and many did not learn to speak German and understand the culture - The same goes for the poor way that Germany treated these workers.

Then you ended up with a large population that could not interact with the local countries citizens on a day to day basis - Children were poorly schooled in German and had major difficulties in schools, needless to say - this also led to a larger Turkish underclass, low skilled, failing to learn language and customs - And in Germany for those that have lived there, local customs are very important.

So was Merkel correct in stating Multi-culturalism has failed in Germany - Yes - can it work - yes - But the Federal and State Govts have to be willing and open to their local ethnic communities.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
In the 60's Germany imported large numbers of unskilled laborers, mostly from Turkey. - No entitlement to citizenship at a later date - If I recall they could not bring their families etc - that was changed a few years or more ago -

Not sure why anyone would expect that to succeed, though I would imagine this was not an immigration policy so much as an economic policy...
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
Not sure why anyone would expect that to succeed, though I would imagine this was not an immigration policy so much as an economic policy...
That was 50 years or so ago - I do not think Germany was alone in that view. But they can make it work and it will take time - But all the players from Ethnic Minorities to the State and federal govts have to be singing from the same sheet.
It will take decades to change people opinions and then consider the GermanEducation System.Lots of hard work, misunderstanding and yes more mistakes will be made - By all involved.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
First of all fascism is an extreme form of neoconservatism. Conforming is essential in
that societal structure. People in Germany and France are not being asked to conform
to one dress or belief system, they are clearly demonstrating they feel threatened by the
German and French people.Governments can say and do whatever they want until the
mass population decides other wise. If you watch what is happening in Germany, France,
and even Holland and Belgium, you see it is not a left or right issue. The people clearly
want something done about the Muslims who live amongst them. The real action that the
population wants is likely nothing short of ethnic cleansing. They just want them out.
The first step is to enact laws, the second is to act out of public safety concerns and the
third is to take other actions, to force them out.
Europe is not an accepting region of the world, and economics and a belief that the old
hatreds could be dissolved with a multicultural state were introduced decades ago.
The result is, economically the national born citizens now hate immigrants at a whole new
level, Like kinds, those who have similar backgrounds are pointing the finger at the ones
who are different, the Muslims. France, the Netherlands, Germany and others in Eastern
Europe are about to go through another round of heightened Nationalism once again.
As the economy slows in North America and it soon will, we will see more and more of that
here too.
There is another problem here as well. Europe, North America, Australia, we are considered
to be democracies, with a societal approach to handling problems. In the Middle East and
some other regions, especially Africa the world is viewed from a tribal and religious center.
Tribal and societal structures usually don't work that well together and the eventually do
break down.
Like is or not, multiculturalism, was never a success, therefore it didn't all of a sudden fail.
The uneasy truce ended and the real problems began almost from the beginning.
These countries in Europe especially are heading for serious civil disruptions if not civil war,
if something is not done as people will vote for majority candidates that will take action regardless
of current laws, we have seen that before in many parts of Europe
In North America, the Republicans are slowly creating the them against us mentality, and that
too will boil over. Even in this country I hear people who have never been on the right and are
still what you would call left of center figures, saying something must be done about the Muslims.
Why is this so, we are facing insecure historical times, with a lot of financial insecurity, and in the
minds of many They don't think like us.
Personally it troubles me to think we as a world of people have gone through so much, and struggled
to provide a better future for our kids, and now we find we might not have become more civilized
after all. When world leaders give up its not to far in the future that ugly situations become reality.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
First of all fascism is an extreme form of neoconservatism. Conforming is essential in
that societal structure. People in Germany and France are not being asked to conform
to one dress or belief system, they are clearly demonstrating they feel threatened by the
German and French people.Governments can say and do whatever they want until the
mass population decides other wise. If you watch what is happening in Germany, France,
and even Holland and Belgium, you see it is not a left or right issue. The people clearly
want something done about the Muslims who live amongst them. The real action that the
population wants is likely nothing short of ethnic cleansing. They just want them out.
The first step is to enact laws, the second is to act out of public safety concerns and the
third is to take other actions, to force them out.
Europe is not an accepting region of the world, and economics and a belief that the old
hatreds could be dissolved with a multicultural state were introduced decades ago.
The result is, economically the national born citizens now hate immigrants at a whole new
level, Like kinds, those who have similar backgrounds are pointing the finger at the ones
who are different, the Muslims. France, the Netherlands, Germany and others in Eastern
Europe are about to go through another round of heightened Nationalism once again.
As the economy slows in North America and it soon will, we will see more and more of that
here too.
There is another problem here as well. Europe, North America, Australia, we are considered
to be democracies, with a societal approach to handling problems. In the Middle East and
some other regions, especially Africa the world is viewed from a tribal and religious center.
Tribal and societal structures usually don't work that well together and the eventually do
break down.
Like is or not, multiculturalism, was never a success, therefore it didn't all of a sudden fail.
The uneasy truce ended and the real problems began almost from the beginning.
These countries in Europe especially are heading for serious civil disruptions if not civil war,
if something is not done as people will vote for majority candidates that will take action regardless
of current laws, we have seen that before in many parts of Europe
In North America, the Republicans are slowly creating the them against us mentality, and that
too will boil over. Even in this country I hear people who have never been on the right and are
still what you would call left of center figures, saying something must be done about the Muslims.
Why is this so, we are facing insecure historical times, with a lot of financial insecurity, and in the
minds of many They don't think like us.
Personally it troubles me to think we as a world of people have gone through so much, and struggled
to provide a better future for our kids, and now we find we might not have become more civilized
after all. When world leaders give up its not to far in the future that ugly situations become reality.

I think that you are in error on the point that most want Muslims out - They want Muslims to assimilate better - Better educated as many in France for 1 have low levels of education and are then stuck - feel the are not part of the larger group - that they are being discriminated against - But the fault lies with both the French Govts and many Muslims themselves - The west is not to accommodating of those that call for jihad for instance as one Imam in France did when he praised the Madrid Bombings- He was deported within 6 weeks.

To many Muslims cling to the ethnic groups and are swayed by the groups opinions - That is only natural - We can all be swayed by a large group rightly or wrongly- To often Muslim immigrants are forgetting why they immigrated to a western country - Freedom to live without fear of persecution along with many other rights - Not all but a fair number

The Mosque and their living within largely their own ethnic neighborhoods can be one reassuring but also prevents their immersion and understanding of the majority culture.

Their Imams and elders hold immense power and influence over many of these groups.

But France like many European countries have not done a very good job of reaching out. The same goes with the ethnic populations as well.

The world is changing and to think that an ethnic cleansing will occur is in my opinion beyond belief and credibility.

The Govts of the Countries also have to tackle these groups that promote hatred - Whether they are European or a visible minority - Both have to be undermined and attacked as an evil that will destroy their country and turn many average citizens upon each other.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
You do have many valid points here that I agree with, however there are many and I
mean a sizable number that just want them out. I was surprised to hear some of the
things I did with some people I know. I was surprised, because these were not the
conservative backers, they tended to be more on the political left what ever that is
these days. To my surprise, they say they just want them out of the country and
somewhere else. I fear there is an increasing rise in nationalism, on ethnic grounds.
Economic Nationalism is one thing, but when it becomes an excepted norm on a
social basis, and drifts evermore toward exclusion of one group or another I think it
can lead to serious problems. The other problem with Muslims is that there is no
central leadership, to assist in forming a stable opinion base of influence. High
unemployment, and low education, is a nasty mix sometimes that limits the rise of
some groups. The other thing the Muslim community needs in the west, is a stable
middle class, with good jobs and access to education.
Those preaching violence leaders or not should be deported immediately.
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
You do have many valid points here that I agree with, however there are many and I
mean a sizable number that just want them out. I was surprised to hear some of the
things I did with some people I know. I was surprised, because these were not the
conservative backers, they tended to be more on the political left what ever that is
these days. To my surprise, they say they just want them out of the country and
somewhere else. I fear there is an increasing rise in nationalism, on ethnic grounds.
Economic Nationalism is one thing, but when it becomes an excepted norm on a
social basis, and drifts evermore toward exclusion of one group or another I think it
can lead to serious problems. The other problem with Muslims is that there is no
central leadership, to assist in forming a stable opinion base of influence. High
unemployment, and low education, is a nasty mix sometimes that limits the rise of
some groups. The other thing the Muslim community needs in the west, is a stable
middle class, with good jobs and access to education.
Those preaching violence leaders or not should be deported immediately.

I will make the same point - Research - Info - parties and percentages voted for - new laws enacted - France, Germany, Italy and the UK as focal points - that would be enough to post an excellent thread for discussion - i am sure it will not be slanted that is why i suggest it come from you.

And the answer is???