Mid East Peace Talks Resume

[Goober]

Mid East Peace Talks Resume
Both side have thorny issues to resolve - Land is, approx 97 % settled with land swaps by both sides

Sticking points will be the Right Of Return and Jerusalem - Both Issues Israel is stringently against

You may see a divided Jerusalem - But small and controlled/patrolled jointly - who knows though

Hopefully they can come to an agreement but the fly in the ointment is the distinct possibility of attacks by Hezbollah & Hamas -

Any agreement would be anathema to both Groups and Iran & Syria - Syria wants the Golan back and Israel want arms flows stopped that flow from Iran to Hezbollah & Hamas

Israel, Palestinians agree to resume peace talks - The Globe and Mail

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Friday that Israel and the Palestinians have agreed to resume stalled direct peace negotiations in Washington early next month.

She made the announcement at the State Department with special Mideast peace envoy George Mitchell at her side.

The breakthrough marks a small but important step toward easing tensions in the Middle East. The goal is to agree on arrangements for two sovereign states, Israel and an independent Palestine.

 

[earth_as_one]

I think I've seen this headline before...

Many times over the years...

The problem is, the US isn't an impartial peace broker.

The US military industrial complex profits from the $billions$ the US gives Israel each year in military and economic support. I find it difficult to believe that US President Obama and his secretary Hillary (both of whom have sworn unshakable support for Israel, repeatedly) are likely to negotiate a fair and just peace.

If anyone was serious about peace, the process would be led by an impartial adjudicator from a non-aligned country with a reputation for fairness. The americans might be able to impose a form of peace on Israel, but the Palestinians don't trust the Americans or the Israeli/US installed dictator Abbas:

The PNA has received financial assistance from the European Union and the United States (approximately USD $1 bln. combined in 2005). All direct aid was suspended on 7 April 2006 as a result of the Hamas victory in parliamentary elections.[8][9] Shortly thereafter, aid payments resumed, but were channeled directly to the offices of Mahmoud Abbas
Palestinian National Authority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Palestinians have a slim chance of peace or justice resulting from these "talks". Israel plays for time, Abbas for money and Obama for midterm elections.

 

[Goober]

I think I've seen this headline before...

Many times over the years...

The problem is, the US isn't an impartial peace broker.

The US military industrial complex profits from the $billions$ the US gives Israel each year in military and economic support. I find it difficult to believe that US President Obama and his secretary Hillary (both of whom have sworn unshakable support for Israel, repeatedly) are likely to negotiate a fair and just peace.

If anyone was serious about peace, the process would be led by an impartial adjudicator from a non-aligned country with a reputation for fairness. The americans might be able to impose a form of peace on Israel, but the Palestinians don't trust the Americans or the Israeli/US installed dictator Abbas:

The PNA has received financial assistance from the European Union and the United States (approximately USD $1 bln. combined in 2005). All direct aid was suspended on 7 April 2006 as a result of the Hamas victory in parliamentary elections.[8][9] Shortly thereafter, aid payments resumed, but were channeled directly to the offices of Mahmoud Abbas
Palestinian National Authority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Palestinians have a slim chance of peace or justice resulting from these "talks". Israel plays for time, Abbas for money and Obama for midterm elections.

Why is it that when a democratic society decides to discontinue support to what many consider to be a Terror Org - It is then called by people like yourself as inhumane -

Govts are elected in a fair and open election

Hamas if you check the record came to power because of a split vote - 2 or more PLO reps running for election against 1 Hamas candidate.

Then you call them elected democratically -

Then they gunned down and killed of any dissent in Gaza - Rebut that my friend

They have an iron grip that includes targeted killings of PLO supporters - You fail to see that.


Yet you call yourself impartial.

Before the last US election it was Bush that was the problem - Now it is Obama - who has done more to reach out than bush ever did.

Why not come clean and realize that supporting Hamas and Hezbollah you are against any peace in the Mid East -

That you by your posts support the ongoing killings on both sides.

Arafat never wanted Peace -

Hamas does not want peace

But you continue to support those that are in favor of War -

That you are in favor of the disappearance of the State of Israel

As to the US - They more than anyone want peace in the Mid East - It causes their foreign relations with Arab Countries any number of problems.

 

[earth_as_one]

All sides in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict have their war criminals.

IMO, the scale and duration of Israel's collective punishment and religious discrimination against non-Jews, qualifies as a crime against humanity.

Regarding the last Palestinian election:

Hamas Sweeps Palestinian Elections, Complicating Peace Efforts in Mideast

Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, January 27, 2006


In Wednesday's voting, Hamas claimed 76 of the 132 parliamentary seats, giving the party at war with Israel the right to form the next cabinet under the Palestinian Authority's president, Mahmoud Abbas, the leader of Fatah.


Fatah, which has dominated the legislature since the previous elections a decade ago and the Palestinian cause for far longer, won 43 seats. A collection of nationalist, leftist and independent parties claimed the rest...


Hamas Sweeps Palestinian Elections, Complicating Peace Efforts in Mideast - washingtonpost.com

Regarding the 2006/2007 Hamas Fatah conflict:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah%E2%80%93Hamas_conflict

Hamas 83 killed Fatah 165 killed
98 civilians killed
1,000+ wounded on both sides, at least 600 killed in factional fighting.[3]

Perhaps you can explain why a democratically elected government had to use force to gain power?

Also, please comment on the effect US and Israeli support of Fatah during this civil war.
The Gaza Bombshell | Politics | Vanity Fair
IMO, American and Israeli efforts to arm and train Fatah militants contributed to the level of ensuing violence and influenced the outcome of the conflict.

Currently the US, Israel and other western nations only recognize Abbas, whose mandate expired in July 2009. Abbas is not very popular with a majority of Palestinians:

Open Letter to Mahmoud Abbas | RamallahOnline.com

22 July 2010
Open letter to ... Mahmoud Abbas, whose elected mandate expired in July 2009 and who has remained in power under controversial emergency laws.

We are Palestinians of diverse perspectives and affiliations — scholars, intellectuals, artists, activists, trade unionists, human rights advocates and civil society leaders, inside historic Palestine and in exile — who are united in our commitment to the fulfillment of the fundamental rights of all Palestinians, particularly our inalienable right to self-determination. This universally sanctioned right encompasses, at a minimum, freedom from occupation and colonization in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, including Jerusalem; full equality for Palestinian citizens of Israel; and the right of return for Palestinian refugees and their descendants.

During a 9 June meeting with the AIPAC, you reportedly said: “I would never deny [the] Jewish right to the land of Israel,” a statement that you have yet to retract. We regard this announcement, which adopts a central tenet of Zionism, as a grave betrayal of the collective rights of the Palestinian people. It is tantamount to a surrender of the right of Palestinian citizens of Israel to live in equality in their own homeland, in which they have steadfastly remained despite the apartheid regime imposed on them for decades. It also concedes the right of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes.

No Palestinian institution or leader has ever accepted an exclusive Jewish claim to Palestine, which is irreconcilable with the internationally recognized rights of the Palestinian people. Our rights inhere in us as a people; they are not yours to do with as you please.

We, as Palestinians urgently need a legally and democratically elected leadership that is responsible, capable and committed to the fulfillment of our national rights and aspirations to live in freedom, dignity and just peace in our ancestral homeland. We call on all Palestinians to immediately revive the democratic processes that our people have struggled so hard to build, so that we can designate leaders with an effective vision and strategy for achieving our rights as a people.

Here's how Abbas became dictator:

PLO body elects Abbas ‘President of Palestine’
(AFP)

24 November 2008
RAMALLAH, West Bank - Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas was elected president of Palestine on Sunday by a key decision-making body of the PLO, amid tensions with rival Islamists, officials said.
The symbolic vote was taken at a meeting of the Palestine Liberation Organisation’s 120-member Central Council.
“I announce that the PLO Central Council has elected Mahmud Abbas president of the State of Palestine. He takes on this role from this day, November 23, 2008,” the body’s chairman Salem al-Zaanun told reporters.
He said the vote was taken on a proposal from 75 members of the Council.
“After a democratic debate, this proposal was adopted nearly unanimously, with only one member voting against,” he said, without giving the exact number of participants....
Khaleej Times Online - PLO body elects Abbas ‘President of Palestine’

I don't support Hamas or Hezbollah. What I'm doing is not buying the BS, unlike you.

Abbas has no "mandate" to "negotiate" on behalf of the Palestinian people. But that doesn't seem to matter to the Americans or Israelis. They claim they have someone who is the legitimate representative of the Palestinian people and he appears willing to sell out fellow Palestinians for the right price. I doubt Abbas's collaboration with the US and Israel will lead to peace.

I believe a majority of Palestinians and Israelis want peace. IMO, no one will have peace, until everyone has freedom and justice.

 

[Goober]

Yes War Crimes have been committed by all sides - But not to sidetrack an issue - Who has caused the most since 48?[/FONT]


QuoteIMO, American and Israeli efforts to arm and train Fatah militants contributed to the level of ensuing violence and influenced the outcome of the conflict.Currently the US, Israel and other western nations only recognize Abbas, whose mandate expired in July 2009. Abbas is not very popular with a majority of Palestinians:

Correct in some areas - But more popular than Hamas I would say - Hamas wants the destruction of Isreal - Fact not fiction -

One point I would appreciate is a short reply to a question or 3 but cut & paste makes it to long to get a good point across - Just suggesting.

 

[taxslave]

I think that there are too many people on both(all?) sides with a vested (money) interest in keeping the conflict going to have peace any time soon. I would like to be proved wrong on this.

 

[CDNBear]

I think that there are too many people on both(all?) sides with a vested (money) interest in keeping the conflict going to have peace any time soon. I would like to be proved wrong on this.

I agree.

Regarding the last Palestinian election:
Regarding the 2006/2007 Hamas Fatah conflict:
Fatah?Hamas conflict - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Perhaps you can explain why a democratically elected government had to use force to gain power?

Perhaps you can explain why Hamas had to throw the opposition off a roof?

I don't support Hamas or Hezbollah.

Yes you do, you have stated repeatedly, that they are the only honest people involved, even though it's been proven time and time again, they lie cheat and steal.

What I'm doing is not buying the BS, unlike you.

No you swallow a whole other bucket of it.

Abbas has no "mandate" to "negotiate" on behalf of the Palestinian people. But that doesn't seem to matter to the Americans or Israelis. They claim they have someone who is the legitimate representative of the Palestinian people and he appears willing to sell out fellow Palestinians for the right price. I doubt Abbas's collaboration with the US and Israel will lead to peace.

But if Israel is willing to sit down and negotiate an end to this great big ugly, what does that matter?

I believe a majority of Palestinians and Israelis want peace.

So do I, so why do you want to throw a monkey wrench in the deal?

IMO, no one will have peace, until everyone has freedom and justice.

And people like you stay out of it.