Appeal court rules in favour of U.S. war dodger

[Praxius]

Appeal court rules in favour of U.S. war dodger - CTV News

TORONTO — The Federal Court of Appeal says a Canadian immigration official failed to consider the hardships a high-profile American deserter in denying him permanent residence in Canada.

In a unanimous judgment Tuesday, the court called the immigration officer's rejection of Jeremy Hinzman's application "significantly flawed" and "unreasonable."

The court ruled that officials must take another look at Hinzman's application to be allowed to remain in Canada on humanitarian and compassionate grounds.

Hinzman was the first U.S. Iraq War resister to seek refuge in Canada.

He, along with his wife Nga Nguyen and their son Liam arrived in Canada on January 3, 2004.

Their daughter Meghan was born in Toronto on July 21, 2008.

The Federal Court of Appeal noted that Hinzman holds "strong moral and religious beliefs" against participation in war.

The immigration officer "had the duty to look at all of the appellants' personal circumstances, including Mr. Hinzman's beliefs and motivations," the court said.

"This decision is important for all Iraq War resisters in Canada," said Michelle Robidoux, spokeswoman for the War Resisters Support Campaign. "The Federal Court of Appeal has clearly said that immigration officers can no longer ignore the sincerely held beliefs of these soldiers."

Hinzman, of Rapid City, S.D., was a former U.S. Army specialist from the 82nd Airborne Division in Fort Bragg, N.C.

Good for him and his family... hopefully they eventually become citizens because this country needs more people who can think for themselves rather then blindly follow orders like robots. Regardless of if one supports a war or doesn't, for me it has more to do with the ability to stand up for one's principles, and for his situation of not wanting to go fight in a war he and many others feels is unjustified, he should not have to face punishment and/or prison for not wanting to kill innocent or those trying to defend their own country from an invader who justified their actions based on lies.

And regardless if he wouldn't have faced jail time and only have to deal with a court martial with a dishonorable discharge, standing up for his beliefs is honorable and is a direct part of what our country's are supposed to be all about and are supposed to defend.

Even if he didn't face jail and he and his family were set free back in the US, what kind of life do any of us here expect he and his family would have down there surrounded by many who think they're traitors?

Regardless of one's views on Iraq and War Resisters/Deserters, everyone should be able to agree that their lives in the US are truly over and they'd have no future there, thus allowing them to stay here is the only fair and decent thing to do for them.

It's not like they were criminals who raped and murdered or dealt in drugs.... he chose not to go to another country and kill people he felt didn't deserve it and never did anything to his country.

Now that this decision has been made, I wonder how many more US soldiers may flood over our borders?

 

[Machjo]

I do see an inconsistency here. It says he has a strong religious belief against 'war', not any specific kind of war. If that's the case, then why did he join the military?

And if this is owing to a change in beliefs after joining the military, then what about his beliefs with regards to keeping a contract?

If for example, the argument was about engaging in an illegal war, then I might see the point. But in that case, could he not have simply requested a transfer from Iraq to work under ISAF?

I'm just curious as to how these beliefs came about.

Now don't get me wrong. If he can meet immigration requirements like anyone else, I welcome him to Canada. But it would seem to me the honourable thing for him to do would be to go to the US, face the court marital, put that behind him, and then come back if he really wants to.

 

[Cliffy]

During the Vietnam war we welcomed dodgers and deserters. It was our policy. I know many of them and they have contributed considerably to the well being of this country. The change in attitude here seems to coincide with the change in focus of our military from a peace keeping force to a more aggressive stance. I, for one would welcome all who would have the courage to leave their lives and loved ones behind for their moral convictions, to make a new life for themselves in a strange land. I would also, and have done so, discourage anybody I know who is contemplating a life in the military because of my moral convictions that might is not right and that killing in war is no different than killing on the streets of this country. Until Canada changes its focus back to peace keeping and humanitarian work (rescue and relief) I do not support our military intervention in other countries.

 

[DurkaDurka]

During the Vietnam war we welcomed dodgers and deserters. It was our policy. I know many of them and they have contributed considerably to the well being of this country.

You like skipping over important details, don't you? You do see the difference between willingly signing up for the armed forces opposed to being conscripted?

I have empathize with this guy's situation but do we really need new wards of the state who run away from their contractual duties under the guise of religions BS? This guy is a coward, he's no hero or conscientious objector.

 

[Cliffy]

Many who join the military do so to escape extreme poverty and or dead end lives. We have no way of knowing all the details of this man's reasons, but it looks to me like he thought he was trying to make a life for himself and his family when he was thrust into a war he could not support and run the risk of his children growing up without a father. Whatever, I do not judge him for his actions but I do support his willingness to start a new life without retribution. Wanting to live is not being a coward and cowardice is not a crime.

If you are out in the streets of TO and a gun fight breaks out, are you going to charge in and try and stop it? Would you be a coward if you just stood by and watched people get gunned down? Try and put yourself in his shoes.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

During the Vietnam war we welcomed dodgers and deserters. It was our policy. I know many of them and they have contributed considerably to the well being of this country. The change in attitude here seems to coincide with the change in focus of our military from a peace keeping force to a more aggressive stance.

I think there has been a significant sea change since Conservatives came to power. Harper has taken a hard line against deserters from USA. I assume his refugee application was denied by a Conservative administration. During Vietnam era, Trudeau was in office; he never got along with USA and never missed a chance to poke one in the eye of USA.

Anyway, the court decision is to be welcomed. Iraq war was an unjust war, and deserters should be considered in a favorable and lenient light by Canada. Besides, many of them bring skills in short supply in Canada and as such should be welcome here. I would much rather have an American deserter as an immigrant, rather than an Arab of doubtful beliefs, somebody who could become a tool of Islamic terrorists.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Many who join the military do so to escape extreme poverty and or dead end lives. We have no way of knowing all the details of this man's reasons, but it looks to me like he thought he was trying to make a life for himself and his family when he was thrust into a war he could not support and run the risk of his children growing up without a father. Whatever, I do not judge him for his actions but I do support his willingness to start a new life without retribution. Wanting to live is not being a coward and cowardice is not a crime.

If you are out in the streets of TO and a gun fight breaks out, are you going to charge in and try and stop it? Would you be a coward if you just stood by and watched people get gunned down? Try and put yourself in his shoes.

His reasons are irrelevant, he shows poor character by abandoning his duties & his contractual obligations. Anyone with an IQ over 40 would realize that joining the armed forces will probably result in them doing things they do not like. If he was a man, he would have completed his contractual duties then immigrated here.

Your analogy between TO & Iraq/Afghanistan is nonsensical. I'm not a police officer or a soldier, therefore I wouldn't be expected to put my self into the middle of a gun battle.

I think there has been a significant sea change since Conservatives came to power. Harper has taken a hard line against deserters from USA.I assume his refugee application was denied by a Conservative administration. During Vietnam era, Trudeau was in office; he never got along with USA and never missed a chance to poke one in the eye of USA.

Anyway, the court decision is to be welcomed. Iraq war was an unjust war, and deserters should be considered in a favorable and lenient light by Canada. Besides, many of them bring skills in short supply in Canada and as such should be welcome here. I would much rather have an American deserter as an immigrant, rather than an Arab of doubtful beliefs, somebody who could become a tool of Islamic terrorists.

So we should just be a garbage dump for cowards unwilling to fulfill their contractual duties? These are professional soldiers here, not some teary eyed hippies from the 70's who were conscripted into a war.

 

[Praxius]

I do see an inconsistency here. It says he has a strong religious belief against 'war', not any specific kind of war. If that's the case, then why did he join the military?

I first thought that but then re-read through before posting the report..... they said "strong moral and religious beliefs" against participation in war. The quote ends after beliefs and doesn't say he's actually against participation in war. That's the report stating those beliefs are against participation in war (ie: CBC swaying public opinion by how they word the report) This is mere assumption on my part, but I am assuming he has strong moral and religious beliefs towards How he participates in a war.

Though if he is indeed outright against participating in a war, then yes.... I'm also confused as to why he'd join up.

And if this is owing to a change in beliefs after joining the military, then what about his beliefs with regards to keeping a contract?

IMO, a contract is not as important as someone's life..... the life being those he'd take by remaining obligated to said contract. Also, from past threads about this topic, many have disputed if the contract in question was actually valid to the war in question.

..... Now don't get me wrong. If he can meet immigration requirements like anyone else, I welcome him to Canada. But it would seem to me the honourable thing for him to do would be to go to the US, face the court marital, put that behind him, and then come back if he really wants to.

Obviously he doesn't think he is in the wrong, shouldn't be punished for his decision based on the participation in an illegitimate war and because of this belief/position, he also believes he'd never get a fair trial in the US..... and I believe he wouldn't.

If you already know the outcome, then why jump into the fire? He doesn't seem like an idiot to go against his personal beliefs of participating in this war, so why would he be an idiot to participate in a military legal process that he already knows will find him guilty and already consider him guilty before the process even begins?

You like skipping over important details, don't you? You do see the difference between willingly signing up for the armed forces opposed to being conscripted?

Very little difference.

When you're drafted it usually means a war is already going on and you have no choice but to serve, kill and possibly die...... the difference here is that most of these people who don't agree with the war probably signed up freely before the war began and figured they'd be put to use in legitimate conflicts that would be justified in defending their nation, home and loved ones..... but then the war starts and they already signed up..... therefore they have no say, just like those who were drafted.

To me, what these people are going through compared to those who were drafted in the past are only different by a few minor technicalities.

Those drafted into the military to serve an already existing war and who fled to our country didn't believe in the war, just as these people who signed up before the fact do not believe in the war they're currently being forced to fight in.

I have empathize with this guy's situation but do we really need new wards of the state who run away from their contractual duties under the guise of religions BS? This guy is a coward, he's no hero or conscientious objector.

Well if citizenship in this country revolved around someone's obligations to a contract, then there'd be a pile of us being shipped out of the country for breaking contracts with cable companies, cell phone companies, marriages, business agreements, etc.

I wouldn't allow these guys to serve in our Canadian Forces, but I wouldn't ban them from being a citizen because they broke a contract..... that's just silly and full of personal bias that really doesn't matter.

 

[Cliffy]

And how many contracts (treaties) did we break with the original inhabitants of this country? Durka, you seem to have a slight deficiency in our own history.

 

[Praxius]

Besides.... Rules (Contracts) are made to be broken ;-)

 

[Curiosity]

Regarding military service during war

I belive for the COs there are jobs in medical - technical - clerical - mechanical - food service - religious teaching and compassionate service in many areas - which can substitute for active fighting. There are and were choices for that person - he chose to abstain and while I think he should be allowed that choice - many service people now are opting to belong to the military to "earn" their right to stay in the U.S. legally - whether this will make a good fighting force or not remains to be seen.

I understand Canada's sympathy in this man's fight - however I can't refrain from being disappointed when Canada feels it can create options for a citizen of the U.S. to break the law and receive asylum.

But it your right and I can't do anything about it.

Some day the two nations need to sit down and talk real talk about their differences and future support whether agreed with or not. It would be in the best interests in future friendship understanding and a valuable commodity these days PEACE between the two nations who share a border.

 

[DurkaDurka]

And how many contracts (treaties) did we break with the original inhabitants of this country? Durka, you seem to have a slight deficiency in our own history.

Having problems staying on topic, Cliffy?

Very little difference.

When you're drafted it usually means a war is already going on and you have no choice but to serve, kill and possibly die...... the difference here is that most of these people who don't agree with the war probably signed up freely before the war began and figured they'd be put to use in legitimate conflicts that would be justified in defending their nation, home and loved ones..... but then the war starts and they already signed up..... therefore they have no say, just like those who were drafted.

To me, what these people are going through compared to those who were drafted in the past are only different by a few minor technicalities.

Those drafted into the military to serve an already existing war and who fled to our country didn't believe in the war, just as these people who signed up before the fact do not believe in the war they're currently being forced to fight in.

Well if citizenship in this country revolved around someone's obligations to a contract, then there'd be a pile of us being shipped out of the country for breaking contracts with cable companies, cell phone companies, marriages, business agreements, etc.

I wouldn't allow these guys to serve in our Canadian Forces, but I wouldn't ban them from being a citizen because they broke a contract..... that's just silly and full of personal bias that really doesn't matter.

Very little difference between joining voluntarily and being conscripted? Are you serious? Take note of the "Armed" in Armed services, especially when it's the US military. Also, his reasons for signing up are irrelevant, you do not get to pick your battles.

So Praxious, in your esteemed & enlightened opinion. People should be able to walk away from their duties & contracts without any sort of penalty?

Besides.... Rules (Contracts) are made to be broken ;-)

I bet you have an amazing credit rating. :roll::lol:

 

[Cliffy]

Having problems staying on topic, Cliffy?

No. In my mind it was right on topic. We seem to be very selective about whose contracts are to be honoured or not honoured. The Iraqi war was not honourable. It was entered into under false pretenses as anybody could tell. If I was ordered to kill innocent people in a land that had not harmed me or my country in any way, I would get the hell out of there too.

 

[DurkaDurka]

No. In my mind it was right on topic. We seem to be very selective about whose contracts are to be honoured or not honoured. The Iraqi war was not honourable. It was entered into under false pretenses as anybody could tell. If I was ordered to kill innocent people in a land that had not harmed me or my country in any way, I would get the hell out of there too.

Regardless of whether the war is legal or not, soldiers do not have the luxury of picking and choosing which battles they'll fight in. That's one of the risks one takes when joining the armed forces... fighting battles they don't necessarily believe in. Joining the armed forces under some naive assumption that they'll only fight wars they approve of is stupid at best. He had a choice and apparently he chose wrong. Why does Canada have to waste money and resources on this coward now?

 

[Cliffy]

Regardless of whether the war is legal or not, soldiers do not have the luxury of picking and choosing which battles they'll fight in. That's one of the risks one takes when joining the armed forces... fighting battles they don't necessarily believe in. Joining the armed forces under some naive assumption that they'll only fight wars they approve of is stupid at best. He had a choice and apparently he chose wrong. Why does Canada have to waste money and resources on this coward now?

I think he was very brave and honourable to his family. As for wasting money, I don't know. Is he and his family on welfare or something? It must be hard to hold a job with the government harassing you all the time with threats of deportation.

 

[DurkaDurka]

I think he was very brave and honourable to his family. As for wasting money, I don't know. Is he and his family on welfare or something? It must be hard to hold a job with the government harassing you all the time with threats of deportation.

Think legal costs. Cliff.

 

[Cliffy]

Think legal costs. Cliff.

Well if they didn't harass him and just let him in, there wouldn't have been legal costs, would there? Seems to me the blame for that lies with immigration being dickheads.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Well if they didn't harass him and just let him in, there wouldn't have been legal costs, would there? Seems to me the blame for that lies with immigration being dickheads.

Since when did we just have an open-door immigration policy?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Since when did we just have an open-door immigration policy?

We don't. My understanding is that even after this court decision, deserters from USA will still be considered on a case by case basis. The only difference is that now the standards of evidence are substantially different, as a result of the decision.

 

[ironsides]

And another coward heads to Canada. Good riddance.

There is no draft and this coward did volunteer. Just another who cannot honor a contract.