USA Can Still Take Our Water

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
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Americans can still take our water.

Water bill wouldn’t stop U.S. from draining Canada’s rivers, experts warn - The Globe and Mail

Water bill wouldn’t stop U.S. from draining Canada’s rivers, experts warn

Legislation to prevent Americans from diverting rivers that cross border doesn’t go far enough, council says

The key point is that water means jobs and survival. I can live with some bottled water exports, but bulk water exports? Forget it.

We can live without oil, but we can't live without water. Water is the new oil.


Water bill wouldn’t stop U.S. from draining Canada’s rivers, experts warn - The Globe and Mail

Water bill wouldn’t stop U.S. from draining Canada’s rivers, experts warn

Legislation to prevent Americans from diverting rivers that cross border doesn’t go far enough, council says

Gloria Galloway

Ottawa — Globe and Mail Update Published on Wednesday, Jun. 02, 2010 3:22PM EDT


A federal proposal to keep water in Canadian rivers and lakes from being exported wholesale to an increasingly thirsty United States will not stop the Americans if drought convinces them to come after Canada’s greatest natural resource, experts say.

An act introduced last month by Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon would prohibit the diversion, within Canada, of water from rivers that cross the international border.

But the Canadian Water Issues Council, a group of water experts and former senior water policy makers who advise the Munk School of Global Affairs at the University of Toronto, says the legislation fails to address the real issues.
Of much greater concern than protecting water in the cross-border rivers is the possibility that the Americans would pay to divert lakes and streams that do not currently flow across the border, the Council said this week in a letter to Mr. Cannon.

As the climate changes and U.S. rivers run dry, Canadians have become increasingly concerned that water will become a major bilateral issue and they will be helpless to prevent Canadian rivers and lakes from being drained by their neighbours to the south.

There is little point in stopping diversions from rivers that are already flowing into or out of the United States as the new Act aims to do, said Ralph Pentland, the letter’s author, in an interview with The Globe and Mail.

The water that flows from Canada to the United States eventually becomes the property of the Americans without the need for diversion. And the Americans can take the water from the rivers that flow in the opposite direction before it even gets to Canada.

So “if you think about it,” said Mr. Pentland, “why would anybody take water out of that river for the purpose of exporting it to the U.S.?”
On the other hand, said Mr. Pentland, there would be value to the Americans in finding water to channel water from lakes and rivers that do not flow into basins that eventually spill into their territory.

“So the Act as it’s written wouldn’t accomplish anything,” he said. “But we are saying with some fairly minor changes it could become very effective.”
Another problem with the Act, says the Council, is that it does not prohibit pipelines or canals from being built to send water south into the United States from bodies of water that do not cross the border.

An existing law called the International River Improvements Act requires anyone wishing to build such a conduit to obtain a federal licence. The Council argues that no licences should be granted, period.

“Export in itself is not the danger, said Mr. Pentland. “You want to prevent the removal of water from river basins because you want to protect the ecological integrity of the river basis.”

The major bulk-water export schemes that have been proposed in the past contemplated diverting water from the Yukon down the Rocky Mountain trench and into the United States, or from James Bay into the Great Lakes.

The Council drafted its own proposed legislation to protect bulk water diversion earlier this year and asks to be included on the list of experts that will advise politicians as the debate Bill C-26.

When the Act was introduced on May 13, Mr. Cannon said that protecting Canadian waters for Canadians is a top priority of the Conservative government.
“This important legislation makes it clear that we are not in the business of exporting our water,” said Mr. Cannon. “Canadian water is not a commodity. It is not for sale.”

Critics, including the Council of Canadians, have pointed out that the act does not prohibit the export of bottled water. But Mr. Pentland said that practice does not cause him undue concern.

“In my mind as a water engineer, that’s a trivial amount of water,” he said. “When you are talking about bottled water you are talking about a few swimming pools.”
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Great, don't just let us click the link and read for ourselves; paste the entire thing after pasting a snippet of it.:roll:
They can't have our water here. They'd be trespassing to get it.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Now this one ... I really would like to see.....
Do you want fresh water (winter ice) or use desalination to remove the salt first. Who is going to buy the salt? Nobody. Use rail cars and take the ice just far enough that when it melts the lakes are the closest place to flow to. Some way to hasten the spring melt so it keeps track with the rest of the melting.
Either way a glass of that water would be about $150. Why not wait until the north unfreezes and then you have ready made farmland and a large steady supply of fresh water. Hauling Peat south makes more sense as it can make marginal land quite productive and Canada and Russia both have more than enough of that.

As it is James and Hudson Bays might become the new home for everybody from the Gulf, for a damn good price.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Funny.

Right now in BC fish farms-owned by Norwegians, on the coast feed Californians while wild fish get sea lice and natural runs are reduced. Farming a predator has never made sense and is a failure of fishing policy nation and world wide.
Funny. I always though mink were predators.

Do you want fresh water (winter ice) or use desalination to remove the salt first. Who is going to buy the salt? Nobody.
I will. I rarely use salt at all but when I do it is seasalt.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
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Yup. Mink.

Mink farming seems to work as the farms do not affect other animals much. But this is a bit off topic.

Main point is we cannot sell our water in bulk to the USA. Exporting crops like wheat is okay because that is exporting water indirectly. We have to sell value added products and not simply be hewers of wood and drawers of water-literally. This is not good for the country. It is private gain and public loss.

We are a water superpower and we ought to act like one, instead of being a supplicant which so many people seem inclined to lean towards. In the USA they know the water flow of all their rivers, not in Canada. So we need a national water policy to utilize this resource.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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In the bush near Sudbury
Do you want fresh water (winter ice) or use desalination to remove the salt first. Who is going to buy the salt? Nobody. Use rail cars and take the ice just far enough that when it melts the lakes are the closest place to flow to. Some way to hasten the spring melt so it keeps track with the rest of the melting.
Either way a glass of that water would be about $150. Why not wait until the north unfreezes and then you have ready made farmland and a large steady supply of fresh water. Hauling Peat south makes more sense as it can make marginal land quite productive and Canada and Russia both have more than enough of that.

As it is James and Hudson Bays might become the new home for everybody from the Gulf, for a damn good price.
The lowest of those Great Lakes is about 250 feet above sea level and you have to climb a 1400 foot hill to get a flow into it from 0 feet. The only way James Bay can flow south is if your pour water on your globe.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
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Mink farming seems to work as the farms do not affect other animals much. But this is a bit off topic.
*shrugs* You mentioned it.

Main point is we cannot sell our water in bulk to the USA. Exporting crops like wheat is okay because that is exporting water indirectly. We have to sell value added products and not simply be hewers of wood and drawers of water-literally. This is not good for the country. It is private gain and public loss.

We are a water superpower and we ought to act like one, instead of being a supplicant which so many people seem inclined to lean towards. In the USA they know the water flow of all their rivers, not in Canada. So we need a national water policy to utilize this resource.
Oh, I know what your point is. I agree that we should protect our resources from exploiters.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
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*shrugs* You mentioned it.

Oh, I know what your point is. I agree that we should protect our resources from exploiters.

But we're not doing it. The rise in our dollar is being driven by selling raw resources-mainly to the USA.

An investment letter calls the Canuck buck a petrocurrency. An excerpt.

The International Energy Outlook Is Bullish for Canada#


Investing Daily
The International Energy Outlook Is Bullish for Canada

Amid the peaks and valleys, however, can be seen a definite long-term uptrend that happens to correspond with the ascent of the per barrel price of crude oil to what is highly likely to be a permanently elevated station above USD60 that ranges in the USD80s and tops out in the triple digits. In short, the Canadian dollar is a petrocurrency; what’s bullish for oil prices is bullish for the loonie. And emerging “middle-class demand” means consumption of more and more oil.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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I don't seer this as much of an issue. Very little water flows from the US to Canada, so that is not much of a concern and the only major waterway that flows from Canada to the US is the Columbia.

What is a concern is if the Americans go after the water that flows to the Arctic. along with a few BC rivers such as the Skeena and Fraser.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
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I don't seer this as much of an issue. Very little water flows from the US to Canada, so that is not much of a concern and the only major waterway that flows from Canada to the US is the Columbia.

What is a concern is if the Americans go after the water that flows to the Arctic. along with a few BC rivers such as the Skeena and Fraser.

It is possible to make huge diversions or build pipelines to ship water south and then you have bulk huge water exports. Not to mention plans to ship water by tanker which already is planned by Alaska. Right now, California gets a huge amount of water from N Calif and Oregon. I saw the system flying on a plane one day to Calif. It is huge. Water is just another commodity from one point of view.