Quebec student shaken by U.S. border ordeal

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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CBC News - World - Quebec student shaken by U.S. border ordeal

A young woman from Gatineau, Que., says she was strip-searched and stranded in Windsor, Ont., in the middle of the night by U.S. border officials.

"It was a horrible experience," said Nina Vroemen, 20, who was on her way to volunteer at a California organic farm. "There was no need for that humiliation and mistreatment of a young female Canadian volunteer."

As of Wednesday morning, U.S. immigration officials had not returned calls about the case.

Vroemen, who studies theatre at Concordia University, set off from Montreal on May 5 on a Greyhound bus. She had found the volunteer job in California through World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms, and thought she would explore the U.S. by bus on the way there. She had previously volunteered through WWOOF in Europe.

"You can go to a farm anywhere in the world and help out," she told CBC's Ottawa Morning Wednesday. "You gain friends and experience…you travel, it's low cost and you feel good."

The bus arrived at the Windsor-Detroit border at 2 a.m., and Vroemen was interviewed about her plans by a U.S. border guard.

"He was trying to make it seem like … because I was getting room and board, that was considered being paid," Vroemen. "He told me that I was taking jobs from American citizens because I was going to help out on this community workshop."

'I watched the bus leave'

The guard asked for official documentation. She provided her WWOOF membership and password, but he said it wasn't enough, and denied her entry.

"They told me to take off all my stuff from the bus and I watched the bus leave," she recalled. "Two women came with blue latex gloves … I was just in a panic."

She was told to take off everything except her jumper and was patted down. Then she was fingerprinted and photographed.

"This photograph is me in tears," she recalled.

With that image on record, Vroemen said she is afraid to cross the border again.

Border officials ordered a taxi to send her to the Windsor bus station, even though Vroemen said it was probably closed and she had no Canadian money.

When she arrived at the station, the doors were locked, but a security guard directed her to a women's shelter. The beds were full, but she spent the night on the couch. The next morning, she managed to buy a new bus ticket and return home.

She said she doesn't think she will make another attempt to get to the volunteer job in California.

And people wonder why I have no interest in going to the US :-?

That's just despicable.... if they put their brain cells together, looked up the information to confirm her situation and story to be true (Google it jeez, it takes like 10 seconds of their time) they'd know she was telling the truth.

Instead, it sounds like some boarder guard acting on their own paranoid prejudice and power trip.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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I heard a rumour that US agencies only hire those with an IQ UNDER 100 because they are easier to indoctrinate to be goons.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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I'm sorry, can someone point me to the problem here? The problem where all your contempt is coming from?

A WWOOF card is not ID. Trying to pass if off as such is grounds for further investigation, including a strip search. And if you think that's a stretch, think again. To top all that off, neither Canadian nor US border services are responsible for you missing your flight of bus.

Especially if you try and pass of an organizations ID card as the appropriate ID to travel abroad.
 

Icarus27k

Council Member
Apr 4, 2010
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My country needs to stop with this schizo paranoid border enforcement crap. It makes the officials and the politicians that ordered them to secure the borders look like raving maniacs.
 

Icarus27k

Council Member
Apr 4, 2010
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Nothing threatens US national security enough that the borders have to be the Berlin Wall. It's completely absurd.
 

Machjo

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According to US law, if you have a valid Canadian passport, which she did, you are allowed to enter the US as long as you're not on any kind of black list of course.

Now of course entering the US is different from volunteering and I don't know the laws on that. It was her responsibility to find out the laws first before heading out. Now if it turns out she had the right to enter, then there could be a case, but I'd have to know first if she was allowed to volunteer in the US and what US law says about that and how it defines paid work, etc.

As for the border guard telling he she was taking work away from American citizens, he was way out of line. To refuse her entry is one thing; to be invoking nationalism as his reason is insulting.

All this being said, I hope:

1. Canadian border guards treat all who cross with respect while operating strictly within the confines of the law, and
2. that the Canadian Federal Government not engage in silly games of tit for tat with the US. That would just make us look as ridiculous.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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According to US law, if you have a valid Canadian passport, which she did, you are allowed to enter the US as long as you're not on any kind of black list of course.
Really? Where does it say that in the article?

It states she attempted to use her WWOOF ID card as an official ID, and nothing more.

As for the border guard telling he she was taking work away from American citizens, he was way out of line. To refuse her entry is one thing; to be invoking nationalism as his reason is insulting.
I'll have to agree with you there.
 

Machjo

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from the article:

"She provided her passport and WWOOF membership, but he said it wasn't enough, and denied her entry."

So she did provide her passport. But again, a passport only allows you entry, I believe for tourism, transit, etc. and I believe if I'm not mistaken, only for a limited duration at a time.

Since she was going to volunteer, there may have been other laws at play here. Again, I d not know if that border guard violated any rule in disallowing her entry, though his obvious prejudices certainly do not help his case.

I hope Canadian border guards are trained to be courteous and respectful and knowledgeable of the applicable Canadian laws, and that when a person has the proper documents to enter the country, and there is no other legal reason to deny entry, that entry be allowed.
 

Machjo

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A border guard, as a civil servant, ought to allow or deny entry according to strict legal criteria, and never on a whim. he is not the government, nor the people. His job is to carry out the wishes of the people as expressed through the laws established the Government.

Again, there may have been a valid legal reason unknown to me for that border guard to have denied her entry, and that's fair enough. However, his obvious prejudices do make it quite legitimate for us to question if that is indeed the case or if he was a rogue border guard.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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from the article:

"She provided her passport and WWOOF membership, but he said it wasn't enough, and denied her entry."
It actually says...

The guard asked for official documentation. She provided her WWOOF membership and password, but he said it wasn't enough, and denied her entry.
My bad, the article in the OP, says password. The link states otherwise. My humblest apologies.

So she did provide her passport. But again, a passport only allows you entry, I believe for tourism, transit, etc. and I believe if I'm not mistaken, only for a limited duration at a time.
You need a B1 Visa as far as I know.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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I'm sorry, can someone point me to the problem here? The problem where all your contempt is coming from?

A WWOOF card is not ID. Trying to pass if off as such is grounds for further investigation, including a strip search. And if you think that's a stretch, think again. To top all that off, neither Canadian nor US border services are responsible for you missing your flight of bus.

Especially if you try and pass of an organizations ID card as the appropriate ID to travel abroad.

Contempt arises when people can't read. She provided her passport and her WWOOF card. The US border service is certainly responsible when then held up this woman for no legal reason. She had all the required I.D.
 

CDNBear

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Contempt arises when people can't read.
:roll:

Speaking of can't read...

It actually says...

My bad, the article in the OP, says password. The link states otherwise. My humblest apologies.

You need a B1 Visa as far as I know.

She provided her passport and her WWOOF card. The US border service is certainly responsible when then held up this woman for no legal reason. She had all the required I.D.
You know that for a fact?

Since I'm pretty damned sure you need a B1 Visa to do any volunteer work in the US, and there's no mention of it in the article. Do you think you might be jumping the gun a little?
 

Machjo

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Contempt arises when people can't read. She provided her passport and her WWOOF card. The US border service is certainly responsible when then held up this woman for no legal reason. She had all the required I.D.

I agree that the article clearly says she had her passport. From the sounds of it the border guard denied her entry because she was going to volunteer. I do not know the legal details for that, and so do not know if he had valid reason to deny entry. If you know for sure he had no valid reason, fair enough. But it was the things he'd said to her that were totally out of line regardless of whether he had a right to deny her entry. It's not up to him to offer his opinion. He should have laid out to her precisely what law he was denying her access for. She'd have a right to that at least so that she could remedy the situation.
 

Machjo

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I'd say the same for someone entering Canada by the way. Though we can deny him entry, we also have an obligation to inform him of the specific law for which we are denying him entry so that he can remedy the situation later if needs be. After all the trouble a person goes through to get to the border that's the least they can expect.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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I'd say the same for someone entering Canada by the way. Though we can deny him entry, we also have an obligation to inform him of the specific law for which we are denying him entry so that he can remedy the situation later if needs be. After all the trouble a person goes through to get to the border that's the least they can expect.
Actually no we don't. We can deny entry, full stop.
 

Avro

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Feb 12, 2007
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:roll:

Speaking of can't read...



You know that for a fact?

Since I'm pretty damned sure you need a B1 Visa to do any volunteer work in the US, and there's no mention of it in the article. Do you think you might be jumping the gun a little?

Do you still agree with the treatment she recieved?
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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:roll:

Speaking of can't read...



You know that for a fact?

Since I'm pretty damned sure you need a B1 Visa to do any volunteer work in the US, and there's no mention of it in the article. Do you think you might be jumping the gun a little?

The U.S. Visa Waiver Program requires visitors from various countries to have Machine Readable Passports to enter the U.S. Canadian citizens are exempt from this program. This requirement does not apply to Canadians even if the passport is issued abroad.