Car smoking ban carrying children

theconqueror

Time Out
Feb 1, 2010
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Calgary Herald April 5, 2010 - Tories cool on car smoking ban

Health group urges protection for children:

A cancer advocacy group is calling on Alberta and other provinces to ban smoking in vehicles carrying children, but the provincial health minister said more discussion is needed before any legislation can be put forward.

In its annual report card, the Cancer Advocacy Coalition of Canada said second-hand smoke in the enclosed spaces of cars and trucks is even more dangerous to children, who are more susceptible to chronic diseases, such as asthma, as a result.

"Their lungs absorb it much more easily," said Dr. Pierre Major, vice-chairman of the coalition. "We should be protecting children from these carcinogens."
The cancer report card also said ventilation does little to combat second-hand smoke in vehicles.

"Even with all four windows down, second-hand smoke in a car is higher than in a smoky bar," the report says.

While all provinces have laws prohibiting smoking in public places, only six provinces and the Yukon territory have adopted legislation that bans smoking in vehicles carrying children. So have five communities across Canada, including Okotoks.
Alberta is among four provinces and two territories that have yet to enact this type of legislation.

Health Minister Gene Zwozdesky said such a law is something to consider, but requires more discussion first.

"The health of children is paramount and oftentimes they are exposed to this second-hand smoke and that is not a healthy thing," he said Monday. "At the same time, we have to respect the rights of the smoking public."
He said he will look at the issue.

A poll by the Canadian Cancer Society in 2008 showed 82 per cent of Canadians supported such a ban, along with 69 per cent of smokers.
The report says it is unclear why other provinces have been slow to follow the lead of those that created the laws.

"All Canadian provinces and territories regulate the use of seatbelts and car seats for children based on safety, but the concerns about the health hazards of (second-hand smoke) in vehicles have not caught the public's attention," the report says.
Major said he doesn't believe anyone would oppose the proposed legislation, but it often needs someone to champion it.

Okotoks passed its legislation in July 2008 and began enforcement in September. However, more than 18 months later, no fines have been issued, said Mayor Bill McAlpine.

The town's bylaw officer has talked to a few people after stopping them, he said.

"No tickets have been written. And we've probably only stopped a couple of cars in that year and a half regarding smoking," he said.
Passing the legislation in the municipality did bring some attention to the issue and may have applied some pressure to the provincial government, but it's difficult to enforce when it only applies to the town.

"What do you do with people who come into town?" he said.
McAlpine wants the Alberta government to create laws that would cover the entire province.

"It should be a provincial legislation," he said.
The coalition's report recognizes the difficulties in policing the law, but said the same is true for seatbelt legislation and laws that have banned the use of cellphones.

"Most Canadians will follow the law," Major said, noting that even if it only reduces the number of people driving and smoking with children in their vehicles, that still means fewer are being exposed to the second-hand smoke.


 

Stretch

House Member
Feb 16, 2003
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"Even with all four windows down, second-hand smoke in a car is higher than in a smoky bar," the report says.

smells like bullchit to me..........if its that bad, ban smoking altogether AND STOP COLLECTING THE PHUCKING TAXES OFF OF TOBACCO!!!......effing governments.......I feel better now ;-)
 
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bobnoorduyn

Council Member
Nov 26, 2008
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As the sun travels East to West so do stupid laws. I mentioned this a couple of years ago as the thoughtful and inteligent councillors of Bridgewater and Wolfville NS, copying Maine, (because stupididy follows stupidity) came up with bans on smoking in vehicles with minors as well as outdoor public spaces. Now I quit smoking eons ago so it doesn't affect me directly, however, I detest officialdom's intrusions into the personal lives of the public. If they want to direct how parents raise their children they should do it themselves and jolly well pay for it too. These are people who have to justify their existance and enact stupid legislation to make names for themselves.

These are just back door vehicles that allow more state control of our persoanl lives. Not to mention the revenue generating potential.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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What's the matter, you can't wait a few minutes for your fix out of respect for your kids? Or is this an infringement on your right to expose your kids to addictive drugs?

As long as the punishment is an inconvenience, a small fine and a lecture from the officer, I fully support this law.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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Nothing new.... I believe the whole idea started here in Nova Scotia (Wolfville I believe).... along with, I believe, Bridgewater who decided to ban smoking in all public places except the town bridge, which was federally owned.

A big stink went over the town ban, but there wasn't much resistance against the car ban.

But their arguments mentioned above are almost identical, word for word, as the arguments used here for the car ban.

Apparently driving, with all the windows down, is worse then a closed in smoky bar??

I never did see their information that brought them to such a conclusion and to me, sounds completely stupid.

It's common sense most won't smoke in the car with their children with the windows up, and most around here already didn't smoke with their kids in the car period.

I don't see why a law is required when the greater majority of people are mature enough to use their own common sense to not do it on their own.
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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Oh... and for something that's taxed and still claimed to be perfectly legal, I think it's completely foolish to enact such stupid restrictions on smoking in public, smoking in your own car, smoking anywhere in a town, like you're some sort of freak out to kill everybody around you..... oh but it's still perfectly legal and we're still willing to tax you up the ying yang.

I thought the whole indoor banning, no smoking on outdoor patios, etc. were bad enough honestly. I mean seriously.... no smoking on an outdoor patio?? Most restaurants have their patios/decks right out on the sidewalk with hundreds of vehicles driving by, bellowing out worse crap then what you'd find in a smoke.

Proof enough that the people who make these laws are complete short-sighted morons.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Tobacco under specific circumstances may be legal, but its not harmless and I can't think of any reasonable excuse for being forced to breathe tobacco smoke.

The right of the individual to an addictive and toxic substance does not outwieigh the right of other individuals to not be exposed to an addictive and toxic substance... especially when the individuals are too young to consent.

Children can't consent to tobacco until 16. Until then, they have a right to tobacco smoke free air. If an adult smokes in a confined space with an infant , they should get a small fine and a lecture. Up there in seriousness with talking on your cell phone and driving.

You want to smoke? Feel free. Just don't force anyone else to join you or expect to be harassed.

Smoke responsibly. Take it outside. Respect others right to breathe tobacco free air.

I admit car exhaust is a similar problem, probably far more serious. But its not a problem which is as easily remedied. If avoiding exposure to car exhaust was a simple as taking it outside, I support that solution too.

I am against idling cars inside confined spaces like parking garages or near main entrances. I'd like to see those people fined too for the same reason.
 
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Socrates the Greek

I Remember them....
Apr 15, 2006
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If a parent loves his or her kids more then a filthy killing habit, then they shouldn’t have kids. A parent's addiction is killing the non addicted their children, or making them sick while on the way to school or from or any other time in the car, while the wind blows the smoke into their faces.. So sickkkkkkk:angryfire:
 
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Socrates the Greek

I Remember them....
Apr 15, 2006
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If a parent loves his or her kids more then a filthy killing habit, then they shouldn’t have kids. A parent's addiction is killing the non addicted their children, or making them sick while on the way to school or from or any other time in the car, w
hile the wind blows the smoke into their faces.. So sickkkkkkk:angryfire:

Sorry, I meant to say if a parent doesn’t love their kids and they love the habit more then they should not have kids.8O
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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It would have been nice if such a law had existed when I was a kid. I used to get car sick every time I went somewhere with my parents who were both smokers. It was not until I moved away from home that I realized it was the smoking in the car that was making me ill. Good idea so far as I am concerned.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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"Even with all four windows down, second-hand smoke in a car is higher than in a smoky bar," the report says.
BS, I'd like to see the scientific evidence of that.


The town's bylaw officer has talked to a few people after stopping them, he said.
:lol:, I love By-Law officers, I would have told him to get stuffed, that's even i did stop for him, lol.

What's the matter, you can't wait a few minutes for your fix out of respect for your kids?
Ever driven across the country?

Or is this an infringement on your right to expose your kids to addictive drugs?
It's been a time honoured tradition, to allow people to raise their children as they saw fit to. You parents did it, look how you turned out.

As long as the punishment is an inconvenience, a small fine and a lecture from the officer, I fully support this law.
Of course you support it, you have a history of support the infringement of others rights.

Smoke responsibly. Take it outside. Respect others right to breathe tobacco free air.
In some places, you can't even take it outside without being harassed.

It would have been nice if such a law had existed when I was a kid. I used to get car sick every time I went somewhere with my parents who were both smokers. It was not until I moved away from home that I realized it was the smoking in the car that was making me ill. Good idea so far as I am concerned.
That's awesome.

I remember driving from Comox to Val Cartier in a 68 Valiant, in February, two smokers, windows barely cracked, lived in a small home, and I mean small, 15' by 23'. They smoked rollies everywhere they went. I turned out just fine. Not everyone is you.
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
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I don't know what the big deal is. Smoking in a car with children has ben banned in Toronto for quite a while. The world didn't come to an end.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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Tobacco under specific circumstances may be legal, but its not harmless and I can't think of any reasonable excuse for being forced to breathe tobacco smoke.

The right of the individual to an addictive and toxic substance does not outwieigh the right of other individuals to not be exposed to an addictive and toxic substance... especially when the individuals are too young to consent.

Children can't consent to tobacco until 16. Until then, they have a right to tobacco smoke free air. If an adult smokes in a confined space with an infant , they should get a small fine and a lecture. Up there in seriousness with talking on your cell phone and driving.

You want to smoke? Feel free. Just don't force anyone else to join you or expect to be harassed.

Smoke responsibly. Take it outside. Respect others right to breathe tobacco free air.

I admit car exhaust is a similar problem, probably far more serious. But its not a problem which is as easily remedied. If avoiding exposure to car exhaust was a simple as taking it outside, I support that solution too.

I am against idling cars inside confined spaces like parking garages or near main entrances. I'd like to see those people fined too for the same reason.

Besides me knowing much of that, I never said minors or anybody else should be forced to inhale 2nd hand smoke, but the laws in general that ban smoking in certain areas, regardless of who visits those areas, even if it's all smokers who go there, can't smoke there.

Even putting all the smokers in some quarantine in the corner of Tim Hortons wasn't good enough.

I had family smoke around myself and my brother & sister, in fact I could maybe think of three kids growing up who were not constantly exposed to 2nd hand smoke, and none of us got cancer or asthma, or problems with breathing. Doctors continually told me I got quite the strong set of lungs on me despite such an evil environment to raise a precious little child such as myself.

You want to know why so many people think the fear over tobacco and the various bans are overblown/exaggerated?

Because if tobacco was so evil, so deadly, can seriously harm little babies, that it is necessary for smokers to only to be allowed to smoke in some back alley away from civilization for the sake of all humanity..... why the hell isn't it made illegal?

The way people go on about tobacco, you'd think we were talking about some biological weapon.

The point being, is that the government and other officials are continually sending us mixed messages on the subject. It's evil, destructive, out to kill all of humanity so we have to isolate the smokers from the rest of the world..... yet keep buying them because we need the taxes we put on them to help fund the health care system, your local highways and your children's education, thus we also endorse use of it.

If it's really and truly that evil and that bad.... make it illegal and ban it altogether. Forget about the stupid taxes you get off the smokes... stand up for principle and do it because it's the right thing to do.

Otherwise, if the government is going to continually two-face the whole subject because it benefits them, then why should anybody believe a damn thing they say, especially when they're playing both sides at the same time (ie: looking like they're cracking down on the evil tobacco, yet getting profit in their pockets from the continual sale of the evil tobacco and using the excuse of tobacco being so evil to continually increase the taxes on a product their customers are addicted to, thus more and more profit for them)

People can make any excuse they want.... Because those taxes are really needed.... many people would go out of business and workers lose their jobs..... it would increase the illegal sale of tobacco.....

.... Doesn't matter. If it's as evil as so many say it is, why deal with the devil? Ban it altogether.

Hell, Marijuana is illegal and it just makes you snack and play video games.... yet tobacco is physically and mentally addictive, ruins your health and the health of those around you, you're an out cast of society, a burden to the health care, plain all around evil scum of the earth..... but keep smoking, it's perfectly legal and we need the taxes. :-?

Certainly one fk't up world we live in, that's fer sure.
 
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CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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I don't know what the big deal is. Smoking in a car with children has ben banned in Toronto for quite a while. The world didn't come to an end.
Of course not, Torontonians, and Canadians by and large, are complacent. They'll sit idly by as one right after another is slowly whittled away, until finally the Nanny State does all our thinking for us.
 

s_lone

Council Member
Feb 16, 2005
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Of course not, Torontonians, and Canadians by and large, are complacent. They'll sit idly by as one right after another is slowly whittled away, until finally the Nanny State does all our thinking for us.

Which right? Your right to intoxicate your children?
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
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Which right? Your right to intoxicate your children?
Is that any different then raising your kids to think they believe in and follow the one true religion? To hate gays? To hate infidels? To support unrestrained drug use? To drink and drive? And so on... You bet it's different.

The difference here is, I may be harming my kids, but they aren't wielding the misguided teachings to harm others.

Now lets examine how this law is enforced. A Cop sees you smoking in a car with someone, that may or may not be a minor, he stops you. He now has to ask that "minor" for ID, if it is not obvious. This is a breach of the law. You do not have to identify yourself to the authorities, without cause. Historically, that cause has been that you are in breach of the law. In this instance, the "victim" is having their rights violated, if and only if the minor acquiesces, which they do not have to do. This then poses a new problem. If you can not meter the law evenly and equitably, the law is bias and therefore against the Charter of Rights.

Furthermore, the Police are using a clause in the Highway Traffic Act, to enforce a moral code, that has nothing to do with the safe operation of a motor vehicle. This is not what that clause was written to enforce. It's abuse of the law. I know not one single Officer, and I know many, that think this is an appropriate use of their time, and the law.

Hence why, the bulk of these fines are being tossed out of court, 1, because a good paralegal can defeat it the grounds I highlighted, 2, because more often then not, the Officer just doesn't waste his/her time showing up.

This is a slippery slope, how long before the State wants to ban smoking in our own homes? How long before the State uses our children, indoctrinated at school, to rat their parents out?

This is not a law, nor a course I wish to see a free society to take lightly.
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
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BC already has this law. Thankfully, I'd already quite smoking before it was passed.

Addiction is a funny thing. It can convince you to do anything and it will convince you that it's ok to do it.