News Analysis - The West Has Little Room to Respond to Karzai?s Criticism - NYTimes.com
Just why are we there?
Just why are we there?
The Morass of Afghanistan
- Thread starter Spade
- Start date
Too funny! The West always seems to lose control of their puppet regimes. Damn! Give these barbarians a little too much power and it always goes to their heads. Karzai is just another in a long line of puppets gone wild.
Just shows you how little the government cares about what we think or want. Business is business.
Morass is such a negative word. Stabilized overall operations would be more effective and better for morale.
Cliffy is most correct. Things are going just fine in whatever this half-assed country is called this week. Bombs are being paid for and delivered to their recipients. Times are very good in the bomb biz.
Cliffy is most correct. Things are going just fine in whatever this half-assed country is called this week. Bombs are being paid for and delivered to their recipients. Times are very good in the bomb biz.
We've heard the official stories. As in most of them, story is the key. Maybe we should be on the sidelines selling them bullets and bombs. Once they've blasted themselves into manageable numbers, we can cut off the supply train and take on the winner.
The war sucks. Of three family members who have been there, none of them liked it there. None of them asked to be there.
Karzai is putting on a show like any politician would. If the "foreign" forces leave the Taliban will kill him within a matter of weeks.
The last 2 paragraphs should say it all.
"Mehram Ali, a man from Wardak Province who was shopping in Kabul over the weekend, voiced a similar qualm. “We need the international community to keep supporting us and our government,” he said.
“In this recent situation we do need foreign soldiers to help us in bringing peace and stability for our country, and if the foreigners leave us, then the people of Afghanistan will face adversity from every direction, and Afghanistan will return to what it was like 10 years ago when we had the Taliban government.”
You mean to tell me people join the Forces and are surprised when they're sent to a war zone! Shocking! Too bad they couldn't have figured out that our military does things like that before they signed up...
The last 2 paragraphs should say it all.
"Mehram Ali, a man from Wardak Province who was shopping in Kabul over the weekend, voiced a similar qualm. “We need the international community to keep supporting us and our government,” he said.
“In this recent situation we do need foreign soldiers to help us in bringing peace and stability for our country, and if the foreigners leave us, then the people of Afghanistan will face adversity from every direction, and Afghanistan will return to what it was like 10 years ago when we had the Taliban government.”
You mean to tell me people join the Forces and are surprised when they're sent to a war zone! Shocking! Too bad they couldn't have figured out that our military does things like that before they signed up...
This has been discussed ad nauseum and asking why we're there has been answered from both sides of the fence over and over again.
The better question might be "When will Karzai be replaced?" His rigging the election and comments of late seem at odds with what his citizens want.
The better question might be "When will Karzai be replaced?" His rigging the election and comments of late seem at odds with what his citizens want.
Karzai is a fantastic leader, he is delivering nothing and lambasting foreigners. That's the job of Asian despots. Look, we didn't vote for him, Afghans did. Somebody had to win the election there, and some other guy would be just like the mayor of Kabul is now.
The key point is to keep moving, keep bombiing, keep shooting, declare victory and go home. Everything these days is overengineered and this war is no exception.
The key point is to keep moving, keep bombiing, keep shooting, declare victory and go home. Everything these days is overengineered and this war is no exception.
In the last two weeks, Karzai has
1. Threatened to join the insurgency
2. Blamed the UN for rigging the election in his favour
3. Suggested the foreign troop build up will not be sent against the Taliban
4. Has embraced policies no different from the Taliban
Yep, the war go on!
1. Threatened to join the insurgency
2. Blamed the UN for rigging the election in his favour
3. Suggested the foreign troop build up will not be sent against the Taliban
4. Has embraced policies no different from the Taliban
Yep, the war go on!
So is the PR move that puts a split in so Karzai will be welcomed by the Taliban and distanced from the US should Iran suffer an attack from Israel or the US. Part of the same
ploy that has put distance between them in the recent weeks.
ploy that has put distance between them in the recent weeks.
So far it has lasted almost as long as WWI & WW II combined. Anybody out there still thinks it was a good idea to invade that country?
C'mon Gopher, are you suggesting that leaving the Taliban in power and giving Al Qaeda free reign is the way we should have gone?
That's pretty well telling them that whatever they were doing was OK and keep it up, we'll just sit back and ignore it all.
Maybe we could have just sent over some diplomatic types to give them a stern talking to, maybe even shake a finger at them while we're at it. They're calm, rational people right? It's not like they're killing women for exposing their ankles or blowing up centuries old monuments because it doesn't jive with their own version of religion or whipping children for flying kites.. Because that would be crazy! They'll listen to reason won't they?
That's pretty well telling them that whatever they were doing was OK and keep it up, we'll just sit back and ignore it all.
Maybe we could have just sent over some diplomatic types to give them a stern talking to, maybe even shake a finger at them while we're at it. They're calm, rational people right? It's not like they're killing women for exposing their ankles or blowing up centuries old monuments because it doesn't jive with their own version of religion or whipping children for flying kites.. Because that would be crazy! They'll listen to reason won't they?
I would give you a "green" for keeping this topic alive but - it won't let me. Keep it up because every effort to get Canadians out of Afghanistan and back on home land is important.
Too many people have died. Nothing has changed. The Taliban is still in power. It won't matter if we stay forever, it won't change. How can you not get that?
You do know that the current Taliban is the new name for the CIA sponsored fighter of the war against the USSR, right? Those activities were conducted by the CIA sponsored opposition to the elected Government who were making progress with rights for women and education for all children despite opposition by the 'old guard' and that it who the CIA funded.
Probably for the same reason when I saw some guy getting ready to hit his wife I stepped between them. I could have just sat back and said "not my problem"
It will change and it will take a long time, maybe a couple generations. If you push the Taliban back, provide the means to educate, give those people the rights we take for granted, it will change. If that farmer can harvest grain instead of marijuana and poppies, if he can sell his excess to that new mill in the next town and have a some money left for other necessities, it will change. If a child is sick and the family can bring him to a local clininc, if that doctor happens to be an Afghani who returned home after being educated, If that child can go home healthy, it'll change. If young women can go to school, if they can continue and go to university and study economics or urban planning, if educated women can have a say in where their country is headed, it'll change. Shall I go on or does that cover the gist of it...
It will change and it will take a long time, maybe a couple generations. If you push the Taliban back, provide the means to educate, give those people the rights we take for granted, it will change. If that farmer can harvest grain instead of marijuana and poppies, if he can sell his excess to that new mill in the next town and have a some money left for other necessities, it will change. If a child is sick and the family can bring him to a local clininc, if that doctor happens to be an Afghani who returned home after being educated, If that child can go home healthy, it'll change. If young women can go to school, if they can continue and go to university and study economics or urban planning, if educated women can have a say in where their country is headed, it'll change. Shall I go on or does that cover the gist of it...
The CIA sponsored the Mujaheddin, not the Taliban, to fight the soviets who had invaded to support the then communist government.
The Taliban were ethnic Pashtuns who were supplied, educated, and supported by the Pakistani Government in the 2nd civil war which followed the defeat of the Soviets. Al Qaeda is more closely linked to the Mujaheddin.
Mohammad Daoud, after taking power in a coup, had tried to carry out badly needed economic and social reforms but met with resistance and had little if any success. Mr. Daoud then turned on his opposition, killing the leader and trying to imprison the rest. Some Military brass escaped (future warlords) and start a resistance/uprising which is when the Soviets were invited in by Mr Daoud. The resistance grew into the Mujaheddin and so on.