SWINE FLU vs. OTHER STRAINS

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
We keep hearing that the mortality toll from the Swine Flu is fewer than other strains of flu in previous years but yet so much more is made of this particular strain. Would it not have been better just to develop the vaccine as has been done for 25 years with any other flu and given it to the population in due course without all the hoopla, hysteria and fear mongering?
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
We keep hearing that the mortality toll from the Swine Flu is fewer than other strains of flu in previous years but yet so much more is made of this particular strain. Would it not have been better just to develop the vaccine as has been done for 25 years with any other flu and given it to the population in due course without all the hoopla, hysteria and fear mongering?

JLM

From what I understand this flu is a combination of Avian, Swine and Human Flu - all mixed up in one and the 1st of its kind - People born before 57 have had exposure to a similar but not the same vrus so many will have antibodies in the system that can attack the virus.

It attacks many who recover quickly, It also has a tendency to send the immune system, when it is attacking the virus to literally attack healthy organs etc - much the same way Lupus can do. So for serious cases it can mean one day alive and 24 hrs later dead.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
The shots are free down here. I don't like getting the regular flu,never mind the Swine flu so a shot doesn't sound that bad. The regular flu shot we get every year is changed almost every year because of changes in the strain. A shot from 25 years ago is useless today, what they are hoping for is that if someone got a version of H1N1 years ago that some immunity might still be in your body and give you some protection. I don't think they are sure what we had 25+ years ago. The mortality for the H1N1 seems to be higher with children and young adults (up to 35 or so)
 

Francis2004

Subjective Poster
Nov 18, 2008
2,846
34
48
Lower Mainland, BC
Any ideas on how many people would die without the vaccine? Just asking for an estimate

Problem is how many will die this year, who will have been attributed to the swine flu, but will not have had it ?

As we know many die every year of the regular flu and with the hysteria of the H1N1 flu going on many will be added to the list who will not even have had this flu. They will have had another strain of the flu that will have caused the problems but with so much hoopla about H1N1 it will all be put on its tab..

Estimates will be hard to gather as people put on much more then really should have been attributed to it in the first place..
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
63
Moving
Problem is how many will die this year, who will have been attributed to the swine flu, but will not have had it ?

As we know many die every year of the regular flu and with the hysteria of the H1N1 flu going on many will be added to the list who will not even have had this flu. They will have had another strain of the flu that will have caused the problems but with so much hoopla about H1N1 it will all be put on its tab..

Estimates will be hard to gather as people put on much more then really should have been attributed to it in the first place..

SF2004

A simple blood test can tell which flu caused the death -
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
Any ideas on how many people would die without the vaccine? Just asking for an estimate

Tried looking for a answer to your question, thought it was a very good question. Couldn't find any estimates of how many would die without the shot. But did find the following information that I thought was pretty interesting.

This information is from back in August 2009

"More than 4,500 Americans are expected to take part in the various human trials of H1N1 vaccines.
Although wide scale vaccination of the general public is expected in the fall, public health officials caution people not to let down their guard. While highly effective vaccines, such as the one for measles, can have success rates of 95 percent or better -- typical flu vaccines offer a protection level in the area of 70 to 80 percent, according to Goodman.
Also, humans take as much as two weeks to generate antibodies to flu after a vaccination. If two separate doses are required (a likely scenario, according to health experts) the lag time could be five weeks or longer before a patient develops immunity.

Also in September, researchers plan trials using adjuvants -- ingredients added to a vaccine to enhance its effectiveness. Health officials say adjuvants might be used in the event of severe shortages in vaccine supply, or if studies determine a particular additive produces a more effective immune response."
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
113
63
Vancouver Island
JLM

From what I understand this flu is a combination of Avian, Swine and Human Flu - all mixed up in one and the 1st of its kind - People born before 57 have had exposure to a similar but not the same vrus so many will have antibodies in the system that can attack the virus.

It attacks many who recover quickly, It also has a tendency to send the immune system, when it is attacking the virus to literally attack healthy organs etc - much the same way Lupus can do. So for serious cases it can mean one day alive and 24 hrs later dead.

There seems to be such a grey area (the unknown) because this flu is different,
and is connected to 'swine', and yes, just as in the case of the young boy who
died a short while ago, he was a very healthy person, developed the flu, which
had to be monitored, but all of a sudden it attacked his heart, and he died very
quickly.
We received the information from the government, which explains quite thoroughly how to watch carefully how the flu is progressing, as the HlNl can
work it's way into a place that threatens life, it is rare, but it does happen.
I don't think the 'normal' flu we always deal with will attack a healthy person
then threaten that life, I would assume most of the deaths are either very young
children or old people who have some weaknesses in their system allready, or
people with poor immune systems caused by either life-style, or another illness.
Yes, us older folks seem to have some immunity to the HlNl, for the reasons you
described.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
Yes, treat it like any other flu. Except what happens when it's one of those new viruses like that which caused the 1918 pandemic? With so many people traveling across the planet, how many people die today if we're caught flat footed, prepared for a marathon start when it's a 100 m sprint?
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
Is there a possibility that the drug maker that has the contract with the Canadian government is selling a portion of the H1N1 drugs to the highest bidder?

I only ask this because they seem to be coming up short on the numbers promised.

In pandemics of the past drug makers gouged the general population and governments
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
22,827
7,779
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
Is there a possibility that the drug maker that has the contract with the Canadian government is selling a portion of the H1N1 drugs to the highest bidder?

I only ask this because they seem to be coming up short on the numbers promised.

In pandemics of the past drug makers gouged the general population and governments


Sounds more like it's just simple mismanagement. It happens when
Government is involved.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
Sounds more like it's just simple mismanagement. It happens when
Government is involved.

That's why I hate Gov't. involvement in any business- they are there to enact legislation and act as a watch dog and should limit their affairs to those two things.
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
25
38
Toronto
People are so stupid, like lemmings drowning in the sea. They are crying about lining up and not getting the flu shot. They squawk and squawk. They seem to forget that it is a free. If they don't like the way things are going, they can go to a third world country and see if they can get it faster. What a bunch of idiots. Especially considering the damn shot hasn't even been tested properly.
 
Last edited:

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
70
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
People are so stupid, like lemmings drowning in the sea. They are crying about lining up and not getting the flu shot. They squawk and squawk. They seem to forget thar it is a free. If they don't like the way things are going, they can go to a third world country and see if they can get it faster. What a bunmch of idiots. Especially considering the damn shot hasn't even been tested properly.

YFile - York prof questions safety of Canada’s drug-testing procedures

Besides, by the time the vaccine would be "properly" tested for use in Canada, Canada's government would likely have caused the deaths of quite a few people just by its usual obfuscating tendencies.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
43
48
My husband tells me that, the drug companies said they had to make a different vaccine for pregnant women. They reported this to the federal gov't who in turn passed the info onto the prov. gov't. Stopping to make this safer vaccine for pregnant women caused a shortage. Prov. gov't's apparently have not shared this information with the people. I heard yesterday that AB is out of vaccine. BC (to the best of my knowledge) still has some but they are now (only now)giving it to only those who really need it. I have not heard if more is on the way or not.
An aside to Cliff: As I understand it, the H1N1 is free to all who want it. We all know that government paid for it and somewhere down the road - they will drag it out of us. It's also been reported that the residents of East Vanc. got their shots long before those with things like Asthma, heart disease etc. I won't condemn them for their lifestyle but for the most part, their lifestyle has been a choice. Others with things like Asthma etc. usually have not come upon their particular difficulty by a lifestyle choice. I have a daughter-in-law affected by asthma and she certainly didn't develop it due to lifestyle. Fortunately, she got both her shots a couple of days ago. She says that she had a nurse on either side of her, each putting a needle in an arm at the same time and both her arms were very sore within a few hours. So - if you get your shots, be aware that you will probably suffer from sore upper arms.
People who have had this flu say that the difficulty in breathing is somewhat equal to having an elephant standing on your chest.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
My son came down with Swine Flu a few days ago. Today his wife and two small children are showing the first symptoms. They are going to have a rough few weeks, and I'm feeling more than a little useless because I can't do a thing to help.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
I feel for your kids and grandkids Juan. When Jenn and I got it this last spring, it hit hard and fast. VI's description of how it felt to breathe is fairly accurate. >Jenn was constantly using her inhaler and I even ended up using it a few times and I don't have asthma. It put us on our backs(literally) for 3 or 4 days with temps hitting 39.7. It took another good 3 weeks to staqrt feeling have normal, and when it comes to my Jenn, even 7 months later her blood thinner levels are still out of wack( still having problems regulating them) and the Doc says it's because of the H1N1 flu.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
I feel for your kids and grandkids Juan. When Jenn and I got it this last spring, it hit hard and fast. VI's description of how it felt to breathe is fairly accurate. >Jenn was constantly using her inhaler and I even ended up using it a few times and I don't have asthma. It put us on our backs(literally) for 3 or 4 days with temps hitting 39.7. It took another good 3 weeks to staqrt feeling have normal, and when it comes to my Jenn, even 7 months later her blood thinner levels are still out of wack( still having problems regulating them) and the Doc says it's because of the H1N1 flu.

That sounds rough Gerry. I'm getting the Swine Flu shot tomorrow. I'm now in the priority group.....over seventy and a history of heart trouble. A few years back I got the Hong Kong Flu and that hung around for over a month. A couple weeks after the shot I can go over to the mainland and help the kids out without as much fear of catching the damn bug.