Father charged in son's spanking.

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#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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An Ontario father has been charged with assault after allegedly spanking his nine-year-old son with excessive force.
The man, who is not being named to protect the identity of the boy, has been released from custody on a promise to appear in court on Sept. 30, said a new release Tuesday from the Renfrew detachment of the Ontario Provincial Police.
The incident took place in public in Renfrew, a town about 90 kilometres west of Ottawa, on Aug. 18, said OPP Const. Janice Sawbridge.
"A witness saw what happened and was very concerned about the amount of force that was used," she said.
Family and children's services were involved in the investigation.
Sawbridge said that in her experience with the Renfrew detachment, complaints about spanking and charges against a parent related to spanking are very rare.
Section 43 of the Criminal Code of Canada, enacted in 1892, provides parents, teachers and caregivers — including babysitters and foster parents — a defence when they use corporal punishment as "reasonable force" to discipline children.
The Supreme Court of Canada upheld the century-old law in 2004 when it was asked to rule on whether spanking constitutes "reasonable force" for disciplining children, or whether it is a form of abuse.


I haven't read that the boy was injured and I don't know what brought on the spanking. I have certainly seen kids who needed a spanking. What I see here is that the parent's authority over this kid has gone out the window.



Comments?
 

strange

Electoral Member
Jul 16, 2009
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if he used excessive force and the ourt deems it excessive then yes he should be charged and tried.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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An Ontario father has been charged with assault after allegedly spanking his nine-year-old son with excessive force.
The man, who is not being named to protect the identity of the boy, has been released from custody on a promise to appear in court on Sept. 30, said a new release Tuesday from the Renfrew detachment of the Ontario Provincial Police.
The incident took place in public in Renfrew, a town about 90 kilometres west of Ottawa, on Aug. 18, said OPP Const. Janice Sawbridge.
"A witness saw what happened and was very concerned about the amount of force that was used," she said.
Family and children's services were involved in the investigation.
Sawbridge said that in her experience with the Renfrew detachment, complaints about spanking and charges against a parent related to spanking are very rare.
Section 43 of the Criminal Code of Canada, enacted in 1892, provides parents, teachers and caregivers — including babysitters and foster parents — a defence when they use corporal punishment as "reasonable force" to discipline children.
The Supreme Court of Canada upheld the century-old law in 2004 when it was asked to rule on whether spanking constitutes "reasonable force" for disciplining children, or whether it is a form of abuse.


I haven't read that the boy was injured and I don't know what brought on the spanking. I have certainly seen kids who needed a spanking. What I see here is that the parent's authority over this kid has gone out the window.




Comments?
It's gone out the window alright and kids use it against their parents if their parents are weak enough to let them. You can disciplin your children without hitting them but sometimes, a tap (and I do mean a slight tap) - enought to startle a child, is necessary. I watch far far too many kids right up to around age 12 go through my till or nearby tills, screaming at the top of their lungs because they cannot have the toy or candy they want. I like the way my kids handled their kids. When anything like that started, they all left the store and went home with the child knowing that the family outing was ruined and came to a halt because they were acting in-appropriately. Privileges can and should be taken away. If you take them away for an hour or a day - they laugh at you because it's not long enough to cause any "pain". My kids take away all electronic devices from their kids for a week and if it happens again before or immediately after they get the privilege back, the lost privilege gets lost for a lot longer. Even when they come to my house, as their parents bring them through the door, they are reminded that they cannot use those devices.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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I was standing in the check-out line in our local supermarket while a lady struggled with a full grocery cart and two kids that looked to be 8 to 10 years old. One of the kids, the oldest one, wanted something that he couldn't have and he was screaming bloody murder. The lady finally came to the end of her rope and she marched the screaming kid down one of the isles and we heard a couple smacks and when they came back the kid was quietly crying. The people in the line didn't exactly applaud but I think they approved. I know I did.
 

Cannuck

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Feb 2, 2006
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That's kinda like closing the barn door after the horse gets out. By the age of 5 my kids never acted out in public because they knew it would only happened once.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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I didn't see it, so I can't comment on whether it was excessive or not. Goodness knows it's mighty easy to snap and take corporal punishment too far. 1 or 2 good swats versus 7 or 8 hard hits... an open hand versus a closed one swung sideways... a hit to the buttocks versus a hit just centimetres above.

I spank, and make no apologies for it, but I also won't sit here and pretend that I should have the right to do it any way, with any force, any number of times I feel like, or that I'm not at risk of stepping too far.

What I will say about it though is that when something is so close to what is legal, social services seems the preferable route to legal action.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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If, in public, you witness a parent physically correcting a child without using
excessive force....you back up that parent with your actions and behavior.

The "it takes a village to..." philosophy. If a child realizes that their behavior
is frowned upon buy not only the parent, but others around them, it helps to
shame them towards proper behavior.

This philosophy also works on the non-entitled parents that are letting their
children run amuck. Praise or expressing dissatisfaction goes a long way
from seemingly impartial outsiders in public places in most cases.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
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Northern Ontario,
I never spanked when my kids were young.....I used one of them wide rubber bands cut once so I would have a six to eight inch elastic before it was stretched out....only had to use it a couple of times until they were about five....and just the sight of me reaching into my pocket to get it would be enough to calm them down in a store...
It won't break any bones or even break the skin....but it stings like hell...and you have to be calm and cool to aim good...and never above the shoulders...:cool:
 

SirJosephPorter

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Nov 7, 2008
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I don’t think it is ever right to hit a little kid. Hitting a kid is the easy way out. The kid stops doing what he was doing, and temporarily it works. However, it teaches the child a very tragic lesson. It teaches him that the way to get your own way is to use force, use violence. A boy who is spanked reputedly may well grow up to be a wife abuser, while a girl who is spanked repeatedly may well grow up to be a battered wife.

It is more difficult to discipline a child without spanking. I think that is why so many parents resort to spanking; it is the easy way out. Giving out punishment without spanking one has to be more creative. It requires more thought and more resourcefulness.

And also the Biblical injunction (spare the rod and spoil the child) plays into the natural tendency of the parent to beat their children. But in my opinion, violence against children is never justified.

So yes, if the courts determine that excessive force was used in this case, the father must be convicted and sentenced.
 

SirJosephPorter

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I was standing in the check-out line in our local supermarket while a lady struggled with a full grocery cart and two kids that looked to be 8 to 10 years old. One of the kids, the oldest one, wanted something that he couldn't have and he was screaming bloody murder. The lady finally came to the end of her rope and she marched the screaming kid down one of the isles and we heard a couple smacks and when they came back the kid was quietly crying. The people in the line didn't exactly applaud but I think they approved. I know I did.

Juan, what would have happened if the lady had let her son keep on screaming to his heart’s content? Why was it necessary to beat him? Let him keep on screaming, he will eventually stop on his own, when he sees that mom isn’t giving in.

But she beat him and he stopped. As I said, it is the easy way out, it works temporarily. But it can do severe long term damage.

I remember once seeing a family in a food store, there was man, wife and two kids. The smaller kid, a girl was sitting in handle bar of the shopping cart. She was doing something naughty, I don’t remember what. Mother gave her a hard whack. She kept on doing what she was doing. A couple of minutes later, father came and gave her even a harder whack. Again, she didn’t cry, she kept on doing what she was doing.

I felt sorry for the little girl, her future was bleak. She obviously had been beaten repeatedly so that she was used to getting beaten, it was no big deal for her. That is why she didn’t cry when she was hit by mom and by dad. But I think she had nothing but trouble stored in her future.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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Juan, what would have happened if the lady had let her son keep on screaming to his heart’s content? Why was it necessary to beat him? Let him keep on screaming, he will eventually stop on his own, when he sees that mom isn’t giving in.

But she beat him and he stopped. As I said, it is the easy way out, it works temporarily. But it can do severe long term damage.

She didn't beat him. She smacked him quite hard on his backside twice. I also have to say that this kid was screaming at a volume that was just below the threshold of pain. Mommy was tired and she needed a break from this little monster.....So did everyone in the store.
 

SirJosephPorter

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She didn't beat him. She smacked him quite hard on his backside twice. I also have to say that this kid was screaming at a volume that was just below the threshold of pain. Mommy was tired and she needed a break from this little monster.....So did everyone in the store.

Parenting is not easy, juan. It may have been just below the threshold of pain, but the mother must endure and teach the kid that such tantrums do not yield any result. I know that is the difficult thing to do, the easy way out is to give him one or two whacks.

But getting whacked does not teach the kid anything, except that might makes right. If he throws two or three tantrums like this, mom ignores him, does not reward him with any attention, he will eventually realize that all his efforts are for naught and he will stop. That is the more difficult thing to do, but it teaches a valuable life lesson.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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That statement is wrong. Lots of people have been spanked (including myself) that don't believe might makes right. That is just an overly simplistic catch phrase.


It's what morons that don't have a f*ckin clue spout.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
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My Father didn't spare the rod (belt, boot, etc...) and I like to think I'm fairly
well rounded and mentally balanced. No Sociopathic tendencies and I don't
beat Cabbies over a twenty cent tip before I rob them of their fare.

As a Parent, I did what I had to do when I had to do it. My Son also seems
to be well rounded and mentally balanced. No Sociopathic tendencies and
he doesn't beat Cabbies over a twenty cent tip before he robs them of their
fare.
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
22,836
7,782
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
If, in public, you witness a parent physically correcting a child without using
excessive force....you back up that parent with your actions and behavior.

The "it takes a village to..." philosophy. If a child realizes that their behavior
is frowned upon buy not only the parent, but others around them, it helps to
shame them towards proper behavior.

This philosophy also works on the non-entitled parents that are letting their
children run amuck. Praise or expressing dissatisfaction goes a long way
from seemingly impartial outsiders in public places in most cases.


 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
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well it seems the key 'point' here is excessive force, as there are many levels of
spanking, so perhaps he was hitting far too hard.

Spankings to me are useless, a little spanking on the butt of a little child, (which
is usually covered by a thick layer of diapers, and other clothing), so it is just
the little jolt that gets their attention, can be of
some use while they are small, but as they get bigger, the spankings have to get
bigger, and that just makes the parent look like an idiot, if, by then they can't
figure out something much more intelligent than that.
I found that, a good grip on the arm, or part of their clothing, back them into a corner,(if it's not too far away) lol, eye to eye contact,
and use 'words' that give them the message, and help them learn at the same time.
My oldest daughter, at the age of 4, had a tantrum at the register, in a restaurant, while we were paying. She spotted candy in the glass enclosure,
and 'wanted' it. I said no, and it all started. We paid the lady, and quietly
walked out of the restaurant, and stood just around the corner from the door,
and in about 10 seconds, she came out the door calling my name, and was so
happy to see me, thought she had been left behind, while she was rolling around
on the floor. Didn't have that problem again.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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Parenting is not easy, juan. It may have been just below the threshold of pain, but the mother must endure and teach the kid that such tantrums do not yield any result. I know that is the difficult thing to do, the easy way out is to give him one or two whacks.

But getting whacked does not teach the kid anything, except that might makes right. If he throws two or three tantrums like this, mom ignores him, does not reward him with any attention, he will eventually realize that all his efforts are for naught and he will stop. That is the more difficult thing to do, but it teaches a valuable life lesson.

Ignoring only leads to escalation.
Might does make right.
A spanking gets attention, once you have someone's attention you can explan what it is you need to have.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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Ignoring only leads to escalation.

Depends upon what you mean by ‘ignoring’, unforgiven. Ignoring a child when he is throwing a fit, a tantrum is a very good way of dealing with him. In fact, spanking him when he throws a fit tells him that throwing a fit is a surefire way of attracting attention. If a child cannot get good attention, he will try to get bad attention. Beating up the child when he is having a temper tantrum is totally counterproductive.

Might does make right.

Indeed, that is the message a child does get when he/she is spanked. When he grows up, he may feel justified in enforcing his will by violence. When she grows up, she may think that if her spouse beats her up, that is a sure sign that he loves her (since her mom loved her and she beat her up).

A spanking gets attention, once you have someone's attention you can explain what it is you need to have.

It doesn’t work that way, unforgiven. Usually the parent is too angry to explain anything. Do you think that the mom that juan mentioned sat her kid down and explained anything to him? Don’t you believe it. And anyway, children have a short attention span. All the child remembers is that he has been beaten, he probably won’t remember any accompanying explanation. What he does take from the episode is that might makes right.
 
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