Could we be wrong about global warming?

[Stretch]

Could we be wrong about global warming?

By: malterwitty
Tags:

• SCIENCE/HEALTH/CLIMATE/NATURE

Could the best climate models -- the ones used to predict global warming -- all be wrong?
Maybe so, says a new study published online today in the journal Nature Geoscience. The report found that only about half of the warming that occurred during a natural climate change 55 million years ago can be explained by excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. What caused the remainder of the warming is a mystery.
"In a nutshell, theoretical models cannot explain what we observe in the geological record," says oceanographer Gerald Dickens, study co-author and professor of Earth Science at Rice University in Houston. "There appears to be something fundamentally wrong with the way temperature and carbon are linked in climate models."
Could we be wrong about global warming? - Science Fair - USATODAY.com

 

[JLM]

Could we be wrong about global warming?

By: malterwitty

Tags:

• SCIENCE/HEALTH/CLIMATE/NATURE

Could the best climate models -- the ones used to predict global warming -- all be wrong?
Maybe so, says a new study published online today in the journal Nature Geoscience. The report found that only about half of the warming that occurred during a natural climate change 55 million years ago can be explained by excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. What caused the remainder of the warming is a mystery.
"In a nutshell, theoretical models cannot explain what we observe in the geological record," says oceanographer Gerald Dickens, study co-author and professor of Earth Science at Rice University in Houston. "There appears to be something fundamentally wrong with the way temperature and carbon are linked in climate models."
Could we be wrong about global warming? - Science Fair - USATODAY.com

Yes and No- Pretty hard to deny we are presently in a trend of G.W. as the polar ice caps are melting. The question is the cause, is it created by man or is it just that we are at a high point on a long term graph and just a repeat of natural warming trends.

 

[taxslave]

Considering that Greenland was green a few hundred years ago and the North West Passage was largely open to sailing ships for a while I would say we have a ways to go to get back to where we once were. I know that the greenies that are constantly crying about global warming are for the most part crying wolf but they do have a point in that we must clean up behind ourselves. The real problem is that they have cried wolf so many times that one day they will be right and everyone will ignore them.

 

[lone wolf]

Considering that Greenland was green a few hundred years ago and the North West Passage was largely open to sailing ships for a while I would say we have a ways to go to get back to where we once were. I know that the greenies that are constantly crying about global warming are for the most part crying wolf but they do have a point in that we must clean up behind ourselves. The real problem is that they have cried wolf so many times that one day they will be right and everyone will ignore them.

Greenland was a lot closer to the equator then too

 

[#juan]

There is no doubt that there is global warming.. The cause? Well the industrial part of us, including manufacturing, and motorcars, and trains and planes, is dumping 7 or 8 trillion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year and it has to have some effect. There are quite a few other greenhouse gasses that we don't seem to worry as much about but they are there and the climate is changing. Nobody doubts that global warming is happening. We just seem to be loath to point a finger.

 

[lone wolf]

Global warming? No doubt. Ice ages? No doubt. Whatever part man played in it didn't kill off the dinosaurs or carve out the Great Lakes. That we should clean up our act goes without saying because we still have to breathe air and drink water.

 

[JLM]

Greenland was a lot closer to the equator then too

That must have been QUITE a few hundred years ago.

 

[lone wolf]

That must have been QUITE a few hundred years ago.

I could never figure out why those old Vikings named a block of ice Green and a volcanic rock Ice ... or who messed with the logbooks....

 

[#juan]

I could never figure out why those old Vikings named a block of ice Green and a volcanic rock Ice ... or who messed with the logbooks....

Those old Vikings were not so dumb. The called one great mass of ice and rock "Greenland", and another, fairly hospitable and fertile country "Iceland". The whole idea was to fool competitors.

 

[JLM]

I could never figure out why those old Vikings named a block of ice Green and a volcanic rock Ice ... or who messed with the logbooks....

Makes perfect sense - those guys were drunk all the time.

 

[GreenFish66]

I call it Climate change..Follow the patterns..Evidence shows the earth is warming in many places more than the norm.Over all There are many facts to prove Global warming..The question is whether Humans are impacting the climate..I would say almost all scientists agree ..We are.In some huge ways..Most have to do ..with market greed With little need..We humans have to sustain our world ..Our we will lose it ..do to famine /disease /poverty/pollution...Gotta be conscience of the world outside our windows/little bubbles..Clean the smog and pollution off the glasses .Look at the effects we are having on this planet, and as a more serious result, us..All of us..

Green/Clean tech ensures a prosperous /healthy /sustainable future..

Greed /instant gratification /self interest will get us nowhere fast..

 

[JLM]

Actually this subject has pretty well been chewed to death over the past couple of years and none of us are any smarter.

 

[coldstream]

What GW has become is a giant, grasping irrational industry.. political, financial, social. It has never had any reality in evidence. The GW models have never been able to prove anything, and are never held accountable to their predictions.

At its origin is a deep seated pagan spirituality.. that sees man as a parasitic predator of 'Mother Earth'. It sees the planet as an function of an entropic universe, the product of an random accident, with no final destiny, merely an inevitable winding down into a primordial thermal ooze at the end of things.

It is viciously anti human, anti development. It is no surprise that they chose Carbon, the primary energy producing element in our society, and the basis of life in the universe as the arch villain in its concocted 'models'.

There is no GW, never was. Science has never been able to predict climate two weeks forward, much less decades. We have never been able to explain the shifts in temperature in the Cold and Warm epochs of human history, yet have the arrogance to state our 'carbon footprint' will be the critical factor in determining as vast warming.

The Glaciers are advancing in many parts of the world as are the Ice shelves.
We seem to be in the throws of a periodic cold period. GW has now become a political and economic agenda. With trillions of dollars invested, and political movements dedicated to it. The question is, with the massive evidence that this is all a fraud, will people actually have the sense to look beyond what the media, and completely compromised and intimidated 'scientific' institutions tell them, and see that the GW Emporer is not wearing any clothes.

 

[lone wolf]

Ice age? Insider tip.... Buy BIC

 

[#juan]

What GW has become is a giant, grasping irrational industry.. political, financial, social. It has never had any reality in evidence. The GW models have never been able to prove anything, and are never held accountable to their predictions.

At its origin is a deep seated pagan spirituality.. that sees man as a parasitic predator of 'Mother Earth'. It sees the planet as an function of an entropic universe, the product of an random accident, with no final destiny, merely an inevitable winding down into a primordial thermal ooze at the end of things.

It is viciously anti human, anti development. It is no surprise that they chose Carbon, the primary energy producing element in our society, and the basis of life in the universe as the arch villain in its concocted 'models'.

There is no GW, never was. Science has never been able to predict climate two weeks forward, much less decades. We have never been able to explain the shifts in temperature in the Cold and Warm epochs of human history, yet have the arrogance to state our 'carbon footprint' will be the critical factor in determining as vast warming.

The Glaciers are advancing in many parts of the world as are the Ice shelves.
We seem to be in the throws of a periodic cold period. GW has now become a political and economic agenda. With trillions of dollars invested, and political movements dedicated to it. The question is, with the massive evidence that this is all a fraud, will people actually have the sense to look beyond what the media, and completely compromised and intimidated 'scientific' institutions tell them, and see that the GW Emporer is not wearing any clothes.

Coldstream you've hit a new low. Anyone with half a brain and one eye can see that there is global warming. From the evidence it looks like man and his industry is causing it. If we look at the Canadian Arctic we see bare ground that hasn't been bare in thousands of years. The Northwest Passage was open all year. There is no evidence that GW is a fraud. You just have to look. I am a mechanical engineer but you don't have to be an engineer to see that GW is a growing problem. The oil companies just love your attitude and your ignorance.

 

[coldstream]

Juan, the Oil Companies, or at least their stockholders (really a part of the Global Investment Organism that acts in unamity in its, and ONLY its, interests) are the one's that are pushing GW now. They know that any constriction of production of carbon will raise the price per unit, creating a pent up demand that cannot be met due to regulatory limitation.

They are also heavily invested in Carbon Credits, a boondoggle of epic proportions, that will create a new trading regime in the world, played off against currencies and national aspirations and necessities.

And the sea ice was the thickest in decades in the Arctic last year. Everywhere glaciers and ice shelves are advancing, while an increasingly desperate GW industry.. afraid that their lies will be exposed.. finds selective anecdotes to 'prove' its case, and appeals to fear, ignorance and environmental 'sentimentality' to sell it.

I suggest you use some the the rationality and objectivity your degree indicates you have to see through the nonsense and hype of the GW industry and its fakery.

NONE of this is happening. The solutions to GW will be catastrophic to the world economy if allowed to be fully implemented. It is all a cruel and rapaciously avaricious fraud.

 

[#juan]

Juan the Oil Companies, or at least their stockholders are the one's that are pushing GW now. They know that any constriction of production of carbon will raise the price per unit, creating a pent up demand that cannot be met due to regulatory limitation.

They are also heavily invested in Carbon Credits, a boondoggle of epic proportions, that will create a new trading regime in the world, played off against currencies and national aspirations and necessities.

And the sea ice was the thickest in decades in the Arctic last year. Everywhere glaciers and ice shelves are advancing, while a increasingly desparate GW industry finds selective anecdotes to prove its case, and appeals to fear, ignorance and environmental 'sentimentality' to sell its case.

I suggest you use some the the rationality and objectivity your degree indicates you have to see through the nonsense and hype of the GW industry and its fakery.

NONE of this is happening. The solutions to GW will be catastrophic to the world economy if allowed to be fully implemented.

Coldsteam I don't know where to start.

Sea ice was not the thickest last year. Ice shelves are not advancing. Where did you find this stuff?

Ocean temperatures are rising. Surely you've read about the polar bears having to swim miles further to reach the sea ice.

 

[coldstream]

Coldsteam I don't know where to start.

Sea ice was not the thickest last year. Ice shelves are not advancing. Where did you find this stuff?

Ocean temperatures are rising. Surely you've read about the polar bears having to swim miles further to reach the sea ice.

You know what they do Juan. They send camera crews up to Hudson Bay to await the start of arctic freeze up when all the land bound Polar Bears will start to swim out to ice flows to hunt seals.

Then they'll take these images of something that has been an annual event for millenia, crop it of any context of what these bears are actually doing, frame it in convenient public form, over dirge like music, with their own message of gloom and doom, and human responsibility for doing in these magnificent creatures. The currency is one on guilt and blame, and it is completely fabricated and unconscienable.

Their motive is profit first, and philosophical second, in engendering and spirit of deep pessimism and futility to the human cause. And we are all (or most of us) falling for it.

 

[Tonington]

Could we be wrong about global warming?

By: malterwitty
Tags:

• SCIENCE/HEALTH/CLIMATE/NATURE

Could the best climate models -- the ones used to predict global warming -- all be wrong?

All models are wrong. Some are useful. The ones used to predict global warming are underestimating a known climate shift, and you think this is a good thing? The high end of the uncertainty for climate sensitivities actually is below the warmth of the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum. About half to one-third of this previous warming can be explained by greenhouse gases alone. This indicates that our current models don't capture all the feedbacks in the climate system, and that these feedbacks are extremely positive. To date, the models don't include slow feedbacks like melting permafrost, and the obscene amounts of greenhouse gases stored there, because we just don't know when and how fast we can expect them. How could we, with only one planet?

Models are the laboratory for earth sciences...and nobody ever said they were perfect.

 

[GreenFish66]

Global warning has been "greenwashed " all to hell ..That's why I say "climate change"

Greenwashing - is the unjustified appropriation of environmental virtue by a company, an industry, a government, a politician or even a non-government organization to create a pro-environmental image, sell a product or a policy, or to try and rehabilitate their standing with the public and decision makers after being embroiled in controversy.


..The U.N..Has been debating these issues for years.Big Polluters know the pressure is building and they are being forced to change their wreckless/careless/abusing/greedy/short sited/polluting ........ways..

Some are making the changes(slowly as required) ..Others will never change and will crash/burn out with their market shares.(They 8O;-) keep trying to take us All along that destructive path.Been headed that way far too long! ..No more..) .

As better more effecient markets take their place..(and they are more than ever ).Ol polluting marketeers will retire their ol oil games with little long term gains.

Prosperity and sustainability is achievable ...A goal being set and accomplished by those who have seen the light through the smog and slick, toxic darkness. ..

Many such people on my Green/(clean)tech thread ..lol:roll::smile:

Global warming is happening ..Are humans contributing? IS the bigger question...Just one of many subjects studied.. It is an essential/important debate to have..It is not the the biggest issue we as humans face...Climate change is a bigger ,more followed issue nowadays ..Up there with /Poverty /disease/famine/degradation/pollution

Peace or torn to pieces ?

Pieces are fine as long as at the end we agree on

1 Peace ..1 Whole..1 Bigger picture

Peace