Refuse to choose® women deserve better® than abortion

bluedog

Electoral Member
Jun 16, 2009
192
3
18
Nebraska
These site is worth exploring both pro and con.


There are 10,000 abortions per day performed in the United States of america. I am extremely ashamed to admit these numbers. Abortion is the number one 'procedure' by far as per occasion per year.

John Holden, Obama's science and technology advisor has asked for forced abortions in some cases and mandatory sterilization of those 'deemed unfit


See:
John Holdren, Obama's Science Czar, says: Forced abortions and mass*... - Politics



This man in the past has called for a 'Planetary Regime' to enforce implantation of sterilization devices and wants a study done to possibly force sterilization through the nations food and water supply.

See:
www.prisonplanet.com/obama-science-advisor-called-for-planetary-regime- to-enforce-totalitarian-population-control-measures.html

Is this the country, no the world that you want to be a part of? Are you aware of what the psychological effects of abortion are on women that feel they "MUST" choose, that they have no alternative in life? Are you are aware of even more long term effects and complications, physiological as well as psychological?

Two links for you.

Feminists for Life - Women Deserve Better Much to review here.

As well as, for your education and edification this morning may I present:

Catholic Vote


Thats enough from me today, it is your turn! Be Nice Cliffy! lol! :fish:
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
4,336
113
Vancouver Island
That is because your country has so many religious wingnuts in positions of power. Since these same wing nuts that are against abortion are also against sex education and birth control it is a self propagating circle. Fortunately at one point your court made the right choice and declared abortions to be legal and a womans choice, not some bible thumper. I always wondered why those who are against abortion do not adopt more unwanted babies and why so many men think they can deny women the right to control their own bodies.
When I was in high school in the late sixties/early seventies girls that got pregnant were evicted from school on the rather moronic theory that they were a bad example. Thus guaranteeing low education and making welfare mothers. Now many high schools have a daycare attached which not only gives these girls a chance to finish school but also gives a credit course in ECE.
 
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kiwi_NZ

Electoral Member
May 23, 2009
889
8
18
New Zealand
That is because your country has so many religious wingnuts in positions of power. Since these same wing nuts that are against abortion are also against sex education and birth control it is a self propagating circle. Fortunately at one point your court made the right choice and declared abortions to be legal and a womans choice, not some bible thumper. I always wondered why those who are against abortion do not adopt more unwanted babies and why so many men think they can deny women the right to control their own bodies.
When I was in high school in the late sixties/early seventies girls that got pregnant were evicted from school on the rather moronic theory that they were a bad example. Thus guaranteeing low education and making welfare mothers. Now many high schools have a daycare attached which not only gives these girls a chance to finish school but also gives a credit course in ECE.

Well said TS, couldn't have said it better and agree with your post 100% ...
 

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
3,460
58
48
Leiden, the Netherlands
That is because your country has so many religious wingnuts in positions of power. Since these same wing nuts that are against abortion are also against sex education and birth control it is a self propagating circle. Fortunately at one point your court made the right choice and declared abortions to be legal and a womans choice, not some bible thumper. I always wondered why those who are against abortion do not adopt more unwanted babies and why so many men think they can deny women the right to control their own bodies.
When I was in high school in the late sixties/early seventies girls that got pregnant were evicted from school on the rather moronic theory that they were a bad example. Thus guaranteeing low education and making welfare mothers. Now many high schools have a daycare attached which not only gives these girls a chance to finish school but also gives a credit course in ECE.

/thread
 

bluedog

Electoral Member
Jun 16, 2009
192
3
18
Nebraska
That is because your country has so many religious wingnuts in positions of power. Since these same wing nuts that are against abortion are also against sex education and birth control it is a self propagating circle. Fortunately at one point your court made the right choice and declared abortions to be legal and a womans choice, not some bible thumper. I always wondered why those who are against abortion do not adopt more unwanted babies and why so many men think they can deny women the right to control their own bodies.
When I was in high school in the late sixties/early seventies girls that got pregnant were evicted from school on the rather moronic theory that they were a bad example. Thus guaranteeing low education and making welfare mothers. Now many high schools have a daycare attached which not only gives these girls a chance to finish school but also gives a credit course in ECE.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Excuse me sir,

Your Quote
"That is because your country has so many religious wingnuts in positions of power. Since these same wing nuts that are against abortion are also against sex education and birth control it is a self propagating circle."

Can you take a moment to decipher this for me. The "wingnuts" I understand... but please ...the rhetoric is confusing.
Honestly, the way I see it "If" the wingnuts were in power the self propagation would stop.
Life is about values not valuables, to explain...

Be honest can you see...
It is the leftwing that propagates the circle, that despite their sex education classes. Despite their free 'unauthorized' birth control. Despite all the free childcare. Despite the free abortions of course but also despite all the warts, the chlamydia, the aids, the gonorrhea AND the cancerous lesions caused by jamming foreign objects in young women to avoid pregnancy...
Despite it ALL it all, it all perpetuates... at what cost? Life is thwarted through abortion, the young couples life together is forever maligned, the individual life becomes scarred, really, both lives are forever confused and complicated.

But this is all the result of a self perpetuating government system now put in place because of demand! It is in all place to guarantee that self propagating system you talk about sir! Millions of doctors, nurses, therapists, clinics, and a MASSIVE, MASSIVE pharmaceutical industry to feed it all.
Remember sir, it was us... we did it. In the sixties, when I grew up as well. We were there, when it all started.

Check the 1950's, 1940's there was no need for the literally hundreds of thousands of "pills". Those that all now need to be taken in any combination 1-3xs everyday, as a direct result. Back then sir there was no need for the psychotherapists in every corner of every county. Sir! The only need for the county health clinic to give little more than a flu shot. Remember then?

Those wingnuts you easily degrade, back then they started those adoption agencies, many still do. The wingnuts built the homes for unwed mothers, they still do.
Remember those homes for boys- who thought they were men emotionally and psychologically when they first started to become physically mature? I don't mean todays juvenile detention centers, jails for kids, no summer camps and homes for boys- the wingnuts started those as well! No sir, Life was not as liberal as the lefties would have it, but where has it gotten them? Did it all work out for society's good? Really, Honestly?

It was much much simpler and much more inexpensive.

Remember?:fish:
 

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
3,460
58
48
Leiden, the Netherlands
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Excuse me sir,

Your Quote
"That is because your country has so many religious wingnuts in positions of power. Since these same wing nuts that are against abortion are also against sex education and birth control it is a self propagating circle."

Can you take a moment to decipher this for me. The "wingnuts" I understand... but please ...the rhetoric is confusing.
Honestly, the way I see it "If" the wingnuts were in power the self propagation would stop.

I'll do it for you. The sentence is "That is because your country has so many religious wingnuts in positions of power" not "That is because your country has only religious wingnuts in positions of power."

Very important distinction.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
Life was not as liberal as the lefties would have it, but where has it gotten them? Did it all work out for society's good? Really, Honestly?

It was much much simpler and much more inexpensive.


Indeed bluedog. It all worked out for the good of the society, including abortion. The reason abortion rates are so high in USA is because it is a puritanical county, as taxslave rightly pointed out. The same crowd who wants to ban abortion also wants to teach abstinence only sex education in public schools (remember Nancy Reagan’s slogan, ‘just say no’?) and wants to limit contraception to married couples only (heterosexual married couples, naturally, homosexual couples are perverts and could rot in Hell for all the far right cares).

And that is why abortion rates in USA are higher than in Canada. In Canada we teach sex education in schools, contraception is readily available to teenagers. My wife does one Family Clinic a week (she is a Family doctor), for three hours. It is funded by the city, not by our health care system. She tells me that many of the teenage girls who come for contraceptives are from the nearby Catholic school.

You are against abortion not because of its merits or demerits, but because it is forbidden in your version of the Bible. The only reason for opposing abortion is religious reason; I cannot see why anybody would want to force women to have babies for non religious reasons.

So you want to reduce abortions rate in USA? Banning abortion is not the answer, that would give rise to back alley abortions. Make sex education available freely, make contraceptives available freely, you will see abortion rates come down. It has worked in every other developed country; I think USA has the highest abortion rate in developed countries. It is also the most puritanical of all the developed countries.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
Life was not as liberal as the lefties would have it, but where has it gotten them? Did it all work out for society's good? Really, Honestly?

It was much much simpler and much more inexpensive.


OK bluedog, I answered this about abortion in particular, now let me answer in general. It has worked out very well for the society.

Check the 1950's, 1940's there was no need for the literally hundreds of thousands of "pills".

You are singing praises of the 40s and 50s, let us compare that period with today. 40s and 50s were singularly unpleasant decades. Compared to them the society today is richer, healthier (we are living longer), more tolerant and more compassionate.

Life expectancy was low in 40s an d50s, infant mortality was high (compared to today), many of the babies that can be saved today used to die back then. People are lot more prosperous now, there are many gadgets in daily use today which were not even thought to in those days (Television, VCR, DVD player, Cell phone, computer, microwave, the list goes on and on).

Discrimination of all kinds was rampant in those days. The only careers available for women were nurse, nun and prostitute. I think even teachers were predominantly male in those days. Blacks didn’t even have that available; the only jobs open for blacks were janitors and house maids.

As to gays, any man who would declare himself to be gay would get beaten up (of course) and very likely imprisoned for a long stretch.

You are singing praises of 40s an d50s, I wouldn’t go back if somebody paid me to do it. And I suspect, you wouldn’t’ either, you have some romanticized version of 40s and 50s in your mind. You are very much the product of current age and you would be absolutely miserable in 40s an d50s, in spite of what you proclaim.

So yes, we have never had it so good.
 

bluedog

Electoral Member
Jun 16, 2009
192
3
18
Nebraska
Life was not as liberal as the lefties would have it, but where has it gotten them? Did it all work out for society's good? Really, Honestly?

It was much much simpler and much more inexpensive.


Indeed bluedog. It all worked out for the good of the society, including abortion. The reason abortion rates are so high in USA is because it is a puritanical county, as taxslave rightly pointed out. The same crowd who wants to ban abortion also wants to teach abstinence only sex education in public schools (remember Nancy Reagan’s slogan, ‘just say no’?) and wants to limit contraception to married couples only (heterosexual married couples, naturally, homosexual couples are perverts and could rot in Hell for all the far right cares).

And that is why abortion rates in USA are higher than in Canada. In Canada we teach sex education in schools, contraception is readily available to teenagers. My wife does one Family Clinic a week (she is a Family doctor), for three hours. It is funded by the city, not by our health care system. She tells me that many of the teenage girls who come for contraceptives are from the nearby Catholic school.

You are against abortion not because of its merits or demerits, but because it is forbidden in your version of the Bible. The only reason for opposing abortion is religious reason; I cannot see why anybody would want to force women to have babies for non religious reasons.

So you want to reduce abortions rate in USA? Banning abortion is not the answer, that would give rise to back alley abortions. Make sex education available freely, make contraceptives available freely, you will see abortion rates come down. It has worked in every other developed country; I think USA has the highest abortion rate in developed countries. It is also the most puritanical of all the developed countries.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As I said in the first post, there is in place free contraceptives for children. There is in place free sex education taught in class. Yet your abortions persist. By CHOICE.

I am against abortion plainly--- because it destroys an innocent life, by chemical dissolution (ask your wife doctor) or by being disintegrated and being sucked through a straw. Poof, the taking of life!

I am not against it because of the church I go to. There are many churches that deem the practice "necessary".

The only "necessity my friend" is an Economic one. Abortion is an Economic choice, not only on the part of the man who fathered that innocent child, for obvious reasons. It was men who sent those women to those back alleys you talk about.

The woman makes an Economic decision as well to choose not to deal with an innocent life. Look at the decisions being made by mothers today to kill their own children even after they are born!

Economics is of course too the reason for the doctors fee for service for that "simple chemical douche" designed to take a human life. Does your wife and thus your household "benefit" by abortion? Answer me that please. We will all know where you are coming from.
Finally economics proliferates the system itself... from day one... to effect the slaughter of innocent life.

All for "Valuables" not Values!

You mentioned above many things about our progress- boasting of many tangible, utilitarian things, of the "Valuables" of todays progress. I am talking about the digression of "Values" today. Brother today You, perhaps your wife and household, as well as her patients and those forgotten fathers they choose "Valuables" and selfish personal comfort- not the value of Innocent life.

Brother, in every generation you talk about there is a choice of innocence and guilt. In every individuals life since there was also that choice. There was innocence and guilt in the 40's, in the 50's, in the 60's and through to today in ALL countrys.

But I am talking about innocent life...

Innocent life, a life that will simply never,
ever be given a chance, your chance. It also will never have the "personal liberty" you talk about...
to make "your choice". :fish:
---Abortion---
The innocence is disintegrated, by your selfish choice.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
108,893
11,177
113
Low Earth Orbit
So take your pick once and for all then. Higher social costs for welfare or abortions. Conservatives can't have both so pick one already.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
So take your pick once and for all then. Higher social costs for welfare or abortions. Conservatives can't have both so pick one already.

Sure conservatives can have it both ways, petros. I assume you know the conservative motto; life begins at conception and ends at birth.

Conservatives don’t care what happens to the baby after it is born, they are only concerned with forcing the woman to have the baby. That is why they oppose every welfare initiative, help to pregnant women, help to single mothers etc.

The prolife fanatic who opposes abortion usually also supports death penalty, opposes contraception, sex education and welfare. It is all part of the package, the extreme right wing package.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
There are 10,000 abortions per day performed in the United States of america. I am extremely ashamed to admit these numbers.

Bluedog, this is outright wrong, a total lie. As far as I am aware there are between 1 million and 1.5 million abortions performed annually in USA (it used to be 1.5 million, now it is closer to 1 million). That comes to between 2700 and 4000 abortions per day, far less than the 10000 you claim to be the case.

I assume you got that number from some anti-abortion group, Feminists for Life, or Catholic Church or something similar. Well, I suggest getting your facts from some reputable source, like CNN or US Bureau of Statistics or similar. Extreme right wing groups lie when it suits their purpose; they invent numbers out of thin air. I don’t think there ever were 10000 abortions performed per day in USA (perhaps back alley abortions when it was illegal, we will never know).

This number (10000 abortions per day in USA) is an outright lie, sheer prolife propaganda. When you quote prolife propaganda, it really tells me that you are not concerned about women’s health, loss of life (as you claim occurs during abortion) etc., you are just interested in promoting your ideological' extreme right wing agenda.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
As I said in the first post, there is in place free contraceptives for children. There is in place free sex education taught in class.

In very few places, bluedog. I think abstinence education is mostly the norm. And if Joan of Arc becomes your President in 2012 or 2016, abstinence education will be the norm all over USA, she has specifically said so. And children get free contraceptives, where? Perhaps a few isolated places in New York and California. However, access to contraceptives for teenagers is difficult in many places.

Teenagers are still for the most part told to keep their legs shut, that is the extent of their sex education. As to getting them contraceptives, I think very few schools have that program. Other than that, medical services in USA are not free, if a teenager has to see a doctor for prescription; she has to pay the doctor. Then she has to pay for the contraceptives. A working woman can afford all that, not a teenager.

Access to sex education and contraceptives is still problematical over most of USA.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
I am against abortion plainly--- because it destroys an innocent life, by chemical dissolution (ask your wife doctor) or by being disintegrated and being sucked through a straw. Poof, the taking of life!

That is only your opinion, bluedog, that abortion involves taking of life. There is no scientific evidence for, it at least scientists do not tell us so.

I am not against it because of the church I go to. There are many churches that deem the practice "necessary".

Right you are. Fundamentalist and Catholic churches have problem with abortion. Main line Protestant churches, while they don’t outright approve of abortion, don’t really have much of a problem with it.

The only "necessity my friend" is an Economic one. Abortion is an Economic choice, not only on the part of the man who fathered that innocent child, for obvious reasons.

And just what is wrong with getting an abortion for economic reason?

It was men who sent those women to those back alleys you talk about.

You are over generalizing here. No doubt some men sent their wives or girlfriends to back alley abortions. However, many women sough tout such abortions on their own.

The woman makes an Economic decision as well to choose not to deal with an innocent life. Look at the decisions being made by mothers today to kill their own children even after they are born!

Again, it is only your opinion that abortion takes a life. And again, there is nothing wrong with having an abortion for economic reason. And where in USA do mothers kill their children in droves? Do you have any link to the article (other than an extreme right wing website)?

Does your wife and thus your household "benefit" by abortion? Answer me that please. We will all know where you are coming from.

My wife is a Family Doctor and does not perform abortions. However, she has referred patients to abortions. Even if she performed abortions I wouldn’t see anything wrong with that.

Finally economics proliferates the system itself... from day one... to effect the slaughter of innocent life.

Again, you refer to economics like is it a bad thing. Aren’t you conservatives supposed to be all gung ho about free enterprise? Then why not free enterprise in the field of abortion? As to innocent lives being lost, again, that is your opinion only.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
11,956
56
48
Ontario
I am talking about the digression of "Values" today.

There was innocence and guilt in the 40's, in the 50's, in the 60's and through to today in ALL countrys.

OK bluedog, let us talk about values. Which values were prominent, widespread in 40s and 50s?

Racial discrimination – segregated lunch counters, lynching of black in the Bible belt, denying black opportunities all over the country.

There was widespread opposition to interracial marriage in those days (same as there is to gay marriage today). In some Bible Belt states (e.g. Virginia) interracial marriage was banned by law.

Sexual discrimination – Denying women opportunities in education, employment, denying credit to women, in general treating women as second class citizens.

Discrimination against gays – Gays were regularly beaten up and locked up.

Even discrimination against Jews and Catholics – When Kennedy ran for President, there were serious question as to whether a Catholic can be elected as the President. That was the tail end of discrimination against Catholics. But discrimination against Catholics (and against Jews) was very much present in 40s and 50s.

No awareness of the environment, no regard for wildlife, forests etc. – environmentalism is of recent origin. Now we understand the necessity of preserving the forests, preserving the wildlife, their habitat etc. There was no such awareness in those days.

In 40s and 50s, safari meant killing lions, tigers, elephants etc. to one’s heart’s content. Safari had totally different meaning in those days.

I personally find the values of 40s and 50s repugnant.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
Boy, you know how to mess up the good old days. Days of innocence. Still look back and remember the enjoyment life offered as to the doom and gloom we get now.

But your right, all those things you mentioned were lacking.
 

bluedog

Electoral Member
Jun 16, 2009
192
3
18
Nebraska
So take your pick once and for all then. Higher social costs for welfare or abortions. Conservatives can't have both so pick one already.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
To answer your question have sex responsibly or not at all, what a concept. We liberals never were good at that part. Today they aren't either.

Now.
Why do Conservatives have to make "your" choice, your childs abortion or welfare? Won't "liberals" make a decision to value life over "valuables" once again? Interesting, it was our generation (liberal) actually back when we were/I was younger. We dramatically chose Life over "things" didn't we. Remember when?

Materialism was looked down upon as the opium of the masses!
No longer. Now it is and we don't mind at all.

The the taking of "innocent" life in war and on our streets, in our colleges, and Kent St University.
..."four dead in Ohio, gotta get down to it soldiers are cutting us down"- Neil Young proud Canadian.
Hey Brother. Remember the Life of that young child who ran naked from the napalm we sold/used in Vietnam? Remember the horror we felt! How about the horror innocent life lost by chemical dissolution!


for the pic and more:
Constructive Anarchy: The Blog: Freedom of Speech: Use it or lose it. Bear witness. Tell somebody. And have some *!#? fun.

NOW IT SEEMS MANY LIBERALS HAVE BECOME THE MATERIALIST THEY ONCE ALWAYS DISCLAIMED AND VEHEMENTLY RENOUNCED. WHY DO YOU NO LONGER VALUE TRULY INNOCENT HUMAN LIFE? NOT LOST LIFE IN WAR OVERSEAS BUT ON THE CORNER IN YOUR CLINIC? ARE YOU STILL PROUD OF WHERE YOU HAVE TAKEN US?

I am certainly not. I pray daily for all of us. Conservatives today hold an important place of balance in our world. Many liberals of today are like I have said, just inane "gamers" addicted to violence and personal choice, not freedom.

You. You just have become your father.
Please Pray about his today, 20,000 innocent lives this weekend will depend on it. Imagine 20,000 lives!!:fish:
 

bluedog

Electoral Member
Jun 16, 2009
192
3
18
Nebraska
That is only your opinion, bluedog, that abortion involves taking of life. There is no scientific evidence for, it at least scientists do not tell us so.

*************************************************

Not anymore, science has evolved. Check the video sonogram that your wife performs... beating heart at "how many weeks?" Do you deny those small fingers, the feet and toes... as human? Get honest sir. Don't hide behind your wife and her sterile curtain of innocence. You can find the videograms all over the world, all over the internet. I provided one in the initial post, please review... This link: Catholic Vote

You probably just saw the word Catholic and missed that one.


Oh and to your other point, I said right and wrong, guilt and innocence is an infinite concept. We men AND women are guilty today as they all were guilty however far back. Just circumstances and time change my friend. Shall I help list the guilt and wrongs of today? You can do that for me as I am sure you are aware.
I am talking about innocence- "the constant value". It is never changing, it is always innocent. It is however "constantly" tweeked by man, judged by his/her politics, by his/her generation, by his/her location, and individually, unfortunately.

Judged by carnal errant Men AND Women.:fish:
 

bluedog

Electoral Member
Jun 16, 2009
192
3
18
Nebraska
Cliffy,
Your reference please, author, chapter and page, so we may judge this statement and its worth. Only then can we imbue necessary respect for your point of view.

Thank you. As soon as possible please.