Sharia Judge Says It Is OK for Husbands to Slap spendthrift Wives.

SirJosephPorter

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This represents one of the proudest, most glorious moment for Islam. A Sharia judge in Saudi Arabia made an 'official' proclamation that it is OK for a man to beat his wife.

Saudi judge: It's OK to slap spendthrift wives - CNN.com

Now, admittedly it is not really news. It is a common knowledge that Islam permits husband to beat his wife, he has almost complete discretion as to how much and how far he may beat his wife. After all, what can one expect from a religion which says that one man equals two women? I assume in Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia beating one’s wife is probably as commonplace, as routine, as socially accepted as having sex with one’s wife. Wife beating is probably considered part of Islam by most Islamic countries (and is accepted by men as well as women).

But then what is newsworthy about this story? The reaction of women in the audience (when the Sharia judge cast his pearls of wisdom) was surprising.

Women in the audience immediately and loudly protested Al-Razine's statement, and were shocked to learn the remarks came from a judge, the newspaper reported.

One really has to wonder why, don’t they read their Koran?

Domestic violence, which used to be a taboo subject in the conservative kingdom, has become a hot topic in recent years. Groups like the National Family Safety Program have campaigned to educate the public about the problem and help prevent domestic abuse.

How is this possible in a country ruled by the most extreme, most vicious of Islamic thugs, where Sharia has a strangle hold on the country?

Saudi women's rights activist Wajeha Al-Huwaider told CNN that Saudi women routinely face such attitudes.

"This is how men in Saudi Arabia see women," she said in a telephone interview from the Saudi city of Dahran. "It's not something they read in a book or learned from a friend. They've been raised to see women this way, that they're less than a person." (or half a man, to be precise).


Now, this is even more shocking. Isn’t she concerned that she may be arrested by Islamic police, tried under Sharia and stoned to death (or whatever punishment Sharia mandates for speaking out against the Islamic clerics)?

I for one applaud the woman’s courage, but she may simply be foolhardy.

Is it really possible that at least some women may begin to rebel against the crime of wife beating in Saudi Arabia? And they can live, not be put to death?

One can but hope.
 

TenPenny

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I believe that you'll find quite a few Christians who believe that beating wives and children is okay, too.

lone wolf - are you sure our troops are 'already there'?
 

SirJosephPorter

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I believe that you'll find quite a few Christians who believe that beating wives and children is okay, too.

lone wolf - are you sure our troops are 'already there'?


I don’t doubt that, tenpenny. However, that is not the official position of Christianity. Even Catholic Church and the Pope, who does have rather weird ideas about the worth of women, does not say that it is OK to beat one’s wife.

So the Christians who think that it is OK for a man to beat his wife (and there indeed are some extreme Fundamentalist Christian sects who believe that) are generally considered extremists. Contrast this with Islam, where that is the mainstream position.

If a man is charged with beating his wife in Canada, even the man himself won’t say that what he did was the right thing, he will try to make excuses for himself (that he was drunk, that she asked for it, or that he didn’t like the way she wasn’t looking at him etc.).

In Saudi Arabia, nobody would even think of charging him with assault and battery. If somebody did ask him why he beat his wife, he would reply that that was his business, and that he was doing his duty as prescribed by Islam.

So the fact that a few extremists here believe that it is OK for a man to beat his wife in no way compares to the institutionalized violence against women in Islamic countries.
 

TenPenny

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So the Christians who think that it is OK for a man to beat his wife (and there indeed are some extreme Fundamentalist Christian sects who believe that) are generally considered extremists. Contrast this with Islam, where that is the mainstream position.
I doubt that you would find it the mainstream position of Muslims in Canada.
 

karrie

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I believe that you'll find quite a few Christians who believe that beating wives and children is okay, too.

lone wolf - are you sure our troops are 'already there'?

But atheists are above this behaviour and never lift a hand to their women. Nope nope nope. You must get all shivery being so much better hey?
 

TenPenny

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But atheists are above this behaviour and never lift a hand to their women. Nope nope nope. You must get all shivery being so much better hey?
I didn't say I was better or worse.
I just said that 'christians' weren't necessarily better than muslims.

Demonizing a whole religion because of what happens halfway around the world is certainly beneath you.
 

SirJosephPorter

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I doubt that you would find it the mainstream position of Muslims in Canada.


Jonnny makes good sense, tenpenny. I think it is a reasonable assumption that doctors, engineers and other intellectuals who leave Saudi Arabia and come to Canada are in general more liberal, more tolerant than those who stay behind (there are exceptions, obviously).

After all, they couldn’t’ possibly come to Canada for money (as those from say, Somalia or Sudan would), they probably would earn more in Saudi Arabia than they would in Canada (and that too tax free). They probably come because they are attracted to the liberal, secular nature of our society. To be frank, they are ‘bad’ Muslims, they don’t take Koran literally.

So it is quite likely that a great majority of them think it is quite wrong to beat one’s wife, whatever the reason. But the same cannot be said of Saudi Arabia, where influence of Islam is very strong and women are very much second class citizens in the eyes of the Sharia law.
 

darkbeaver

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I don’t doubt that, tenpenny. However, that is not the official position of Christianity. Even Catholic Church and the Pope, who does have rather weird ideas about the worth of women, does not say that it is OK to beat one’s wife.

So the Christians who think that it is OK for a man to beat his wife (and there indeed are some extreme Fundamentalist Christian sects who believe that) are generally considered extremists. Contrast this with Islam, where that is the mainstream position.

If a man is charged with beating his wife in Canada, even the man himself won’t say that what he did was the right thing, he will try to make excuses for himself (that he was drunk, that she asked for it, or that he didn’t like the way she wasn’t looking at him etc.).

In Saudi Arabia, nobody would even think of charging him with assault and battery. If somebody did ask him why he beat his wife, he would reply that that was his business, and that he was doing his duty as prescribed by Islam.

So the fact that a few extremists here believe that it is OK for a man to beat his wife in no way compares to the institutionalized violence against women in Islamic countries.
There hasn't been a female pope for eight-hundred years or so that's there official position, it's because one man is worth 31/2 women, it's in the bible near the middle. Are there any female rabbis? And the official banking position on women? Eminently exploitable slaves. Maybe it's for the best though if women were empowered the world over I think your wife /mother/daughter would beat the snot out of you with a broomhandle. That's what happened to me SJP.:smile:
 

TenPenny

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Jonnny makes good sense, tenpenny. I think it is a reasonable assumption that doctors, engineers and other intellectuals who leave Saudi Arabia and come to Canada are in general more liberal, more tolerant than those who stay behind (there are exceptions, obviously).

Then why are you condemning them as well with your silly statement about Islam's proudest moment?

You seem to think all muslims conform to a specific rigid set of beliefs, when even the most cursory reading of the mainstream press would show that in the middle east especially, there is a wide spectrum of interpretations and beliefs under the whole umbrella of Islam, much as there is under Christianity.

Yet you persist is some bizarre all-or-nothing sort of theory, throwing out such idiotic generalizations that you condemn in other posters. Suggest you go find a mirror, and look carefully at what you see.
 

karrie

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I didn't say I was better or worse.
I just said that 'christians' weren't necessarily better than muslims.

Demonizing a whole religion because of what happens halfway around the world is certainly beneath you.

Sharia may be backed by religion, but it's not religion. It's courts. Legal systems in North America used to allow wife beating too. These Sharia courts may be behind us, but, they're no worse.
 

SirJosephPorter

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I didn't say I was better or worse.
I just said that 'christians' weren't necessarily better than muslims.


You are quite right, tenpenny, human nature is the same everywhere. However, while Christians may not be better than Muslims, there is a big difference between Christianity and Islam.

To be fair, Bible is fully as vicious towards women as Koran, Bible regards wife as her husband’s servant, her husband’s property and commands a woman to be submissive to her husband. However, Christians have had the Reformation. These days, very few Christians take the Bible literally. Even those who claim to be Fundamentalists, are not really Fundamentalists, they interpret the Bible same as everybody else (e.g. I doubt if even a Fundamentalist would take the Biblical quote ‘Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live’ seriously). So, many Christians do not believe that women are inferior to men, no mater what the Bible says. Or how many Churches observe Paul’s diktat, let a woman be seen but not heard in a church? Only the most extreme churches do.

But Islam never had a Reformation. Most Imams, Mullahs and Ayatollahs take Koran literally. People are easily influenced by the clerics. So when clerics say that is it OK for a man to beat his wife because Koran says so, the society at large goes along.

Muslims need a Reformation, same as Christian, they have to learn not to take Koran literally. That is a big difference between Muslims and Christians.
 

SirJosephPorter

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In fact there were some motions afoot to get Sharia divorce courts here in Canada. Luckily they were squashed.


That was right here in Ontario. McGuinty government appointed Marion Boyd, supposedly a women’s advocate, a Feminist to look into it. Incredibly, she recommended that Ontario introduce Sharia for Muslims in civil cases.

Muslim community was ecstatic about it. However, there was so much opposition to it, so much outcry, that McGuinty ran from it like from a house on fire. At about that time, Quebec assembly passed a preemptory resolution, saying that Sharia (or anything resembling it) will never be introduced in Quebec.

So both Ontario and Quebec have had this debate and they (rightly) decided to give Sharia the bird.