Orwellian use of language: mom pleads guilty in cult starvation death

Scott Free

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Before I post this I am going to say that I really object to the word cult being used in this article. I think it is an attempt by the AP villanize this religion and thereby insinuate that it is different than other religions. I would submit that this is a gross misuse of language specifically meant to manipulate perception. That somehow a catholic, for example, could feel good about their religions history of pedophilia as compared to this ones murder of a child simply because, as everyone knows, catholisism isn't a cult, is patently absurd! I think it is disgusting that the AP would try and protect religion in this way.


mom pleads guilty in cult starvation death

BALTIMORE (AP) — A former religious cult member pleaded guilty Monday to starving her 1-year-old son to death after making an unusual deal with prosecutors: If the child is resurrected, her plea will be withdrawn.

Ria Ramkissoon, 22, also agreed to testify against four other members of the now-defunct religious group known as 1 Mind Ministries. All four are charged with first-degree murder in the death of Javon Thompson.

According to a statement of facts, the cult members stopped feeding the boy when he refused to say "Amen" after a meal. After Javon died, Ramkissoon sat next to his decomposing body and prayed for his resurrection.

Ramkissoon's attorney, Steven D. Silverman, said Ramkissoon believes the resurrection will occur. She agreed to plead guilty only after prosecutors said they would drop the charges if the child comes back to life, Silverman said.

"This is something that she absolutely insisted upon, and this is indicative of the fact that she is still brainwashed, still a victim of this cult," he said. "Until she's deprogrammed, she's not going to think any differently."

Baltimore Circuit Judge Timothy J. Doory assured Ramkissoon that the plea would indeed be withdrawn if the child is resurrected.

Ramkissoon pleaded guilty to one count of child abuse resulting in death. She will remain in custody until she testifies against her co-defendants and will receive a suspended 20-year sentence and serve five years probation. Sentencing was scheduled for Aug. 11. By then, Ramkissoon would have spent about a year behind bars.

As part of herprobation, Ramkissoon must submit to treatment, including sessions with an expert on cult behavior.

The maximum sentence for child abuse resulting in death is 30 years, and defendants typically receive between 12 and 20 years, according to Maryland sentencing guidelines.

Ramkissoon will fare much better under than the plea deal than if she had pursued an insanity defense, Silverman said. A court psychiatrist found that she was both competent to stand trial and could have been held criminally responsible for Javon's death because she knew the difference between right and wrong.

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SirJosephPorter

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According to a statement of facts, the cult members stopped feeding the boy when he refused to say "Amen" after a meal.

Scott Free, I don’t believe that for a moment. A child does not have the forbearance, the fortitude to go without food for a long time. He may perhaps skip a meal or two by refusing to say ‘Amen’, if he is particularly strong willed. However, after at most a day, he would gladly say ‘Amen’ a thousand times, if that would get him food.

I can understand an adult refusing to say ‘Amen’ and choose to die for her beliefs. However, no way a child has the conviction, the certainty of his views. They also don’t have the capacity to go without food for a long time. And especially if it is something as easy as saying ‘Amen’ will give them food, I think it is almost certain that the child would say ‘Amen’.

Hell, I would say ‘amen’ if I am starved and if that is the only way to get food. So I am pretty sure that is not the correct story, the child was starved for some other religious reason.

Perhaps her Messiah (the cult leader) told her that her child is the Chosen One, he has been chosen to be resurrected, and that he must be starved and killed first before that happens. Something like that sounds much more likely than the flimsy story she told.

But of course, at any cost she wouldn’t implicate her Messiah. Anyway, I don’t believe her story, think it somehow involves the cult leader.
 

tracy

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SJP, the child was a one year old. He wouldn't even have the mental abilities to understand what he had to do to get food.
 

Scott Free

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According to a statement of facts, the cult members stopped feeding the boy when he refused to say "Amen" after a meal.

Scott Free, I don’t believe that for a moment. A child does not have the forbearance, the fortitude to go without food for a long time. He may perhaps skip a meal or two by refusing to say ‘Amen’, if he is particularly strong willed. However, after at most a day, he would gladly say ‘Amen’ a thousand times, if that would get him food.

I agree but whatever the real story is, my objection is to the AP offering a ready made apology for other religions. It is the use of language here that is the real story IMO. It is this sort of language use that allows religious abuse of children to continue IMO.
 

Cannuck

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That somehow a catholic, for example, could feel good about their religions history of pedophilia as compared to this ones murder of a child simply because, as everyone knows, catholisism isn't a cult, is patently absurd!

What's patently absurd is you comparing this murder to the molestation of children. It is my understanding that there is nothing in Catholic doctrine that supports pedophilia but, not being a Catholic, I have no first hand knowledge and could be wrong. I would suggest since you have made the connection, maybe you should point it out.

Holding the Catholic doctrine accountable for the wrongs committed by individuals is like holding football fans accountable for OJ. or Communism accountable for Andrei Chikatilo. For gawds sake get a grip.
 

Scott Free

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What's patently absurd is you comparing this murder to the molestation of children. It is my understanding that there is nothing in Catholic doctrine that supports pedophilia but, not being a Catholic, I have no first hand knowledge and could be wrong. I would suggest since you have made the connection, maybe you should point it out.

Holding the Catholic doctrine accountable for the wrongs committed by individuals is like holding football fans accountable for OJ. or Communism accountable for Andrei Chikatilo. For gawds sake get a grip.

It is quite customary to hold societies and groups accountable for individual behaviour. After all societies are where individuals come from.

For example we don't say some Nazi's were nice people. Though that is almost certainly true. We have Schindler as an example of that. Some might say he wasn't a real Nazi but that's a pointless argument and like saying a lion that doesn't eat people isn't a real lion.

Anyway, you are a troll and have demonstrated that you are not interested in a real discourse with intention to find truth, therefore I dislike talking to you.
 
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Colpy

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I agree but whatever the real story is, my objection is to the AP offering a ready made apology for other religions. It is the use of language here that is the real story IMO. It is this sort of language use that allows religious abuse of children to continue IMO.

Equating those that believe in God with this kind of outrage is an absolute insult to 72% of Canadians.

You are WAY out of line, Scott Free.

TheStar.com | Canada | One in four don't believe in God, poll finds
 

Cannuck

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Anyway, you are a troll and have demonstrated that you are not interested in a real discourse with intention to find truth, therefore I dislike talking to you.

Then don't talk to me. I don't need your rebuttal to point out that you have no idea what you are talking about....unless of course you do. By all means feel free to show how Catholic doctrine supports pedophilia. Unless and until you can, and since this cult's doctrine (and it definitely is a cult) did reinforce the behavior of this woman it's quite clear that any comparison between the Catholic church and this cult is just silly.

Maybe all you guys that don't like being challenged could get together and come up with a new label. Troll is getting so tiring.
 

Scott Free

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Equating those that believe in God with this kind of outrage is an absolute insult to 72% of Canadians.

You are WAY out of line, Scott Free.

TheStar.com | Canada | One in four don't believe in God, poll finds

I don't think so.

In my opinion your argument only illustrates that most people are unaware of the extent of the problem irrational belief posses.

Many people that claim to believe in god do not believe in the Judaic/Christian/Islamic hairy thunderer which is the god under discussion. For example China said he believed god was energy, the stuff that composes the universe, which isn't the traditional meaning of god but also isn't likely to prompt him to kill either.
 

Colpy

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I don't think so.

In my opinion your argument only illustrates that most people are unaware of the extent of the problem irrational belief posses.

Many people that claim to believe in god do not believe in the Judaic/Christian/Islamic hairy thunderer which is the god under discussion. For example China said he believed god was energy, the stuff that composes the universe, which isn't the traditional meaning of god but also isn't likely to prompt him to kill either.

So, it is only the belief in a judeao-christian God you believe is superstition and a excuse for paedophilia?

Easily 50% plus of those Canadian believers adhere to an idea of a Christian God.......

Yet most do not kill, nor do they involve themselves in child abuse....in fact they are IMHO much less apt to indulge in either practise....

If you are accusing them, as a group, of being more prone to such acts than the general population........rationality and fair play would demand that you present some evidence of same.

I've played both sides of this coin......been raised in a very religious extended family, absolute Ozzie and Harriet stuff..... and spent my youth playing hippy.........and I didn't find the violent perverts I encountered in the Baptist church.
 

Scott Free

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Of course I am. That's why you run away. If you could refute anything I've said you would.

Just because you can't understand what I've said doesn't mean I haven't refuted it. Go ask an adult to explain my posts to you.

But that is kind of irrelevant anyway. If you post something stupid, don't blame me for pointing it out.

If you think I've posted something stupid then by all means point it out.

I always enjoy a good laugh.
 

Scott Free

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So, it is only the belief in a judeao-christian God you believe is superstition and a excuse for paedophilia?

Easily 50% plus of those Canadian believers adhere to an idea of a Christian God.......

At one time people believed in Thor, Isis, Sammas and other such gods. Just because a group shares a delusion doesn't validate the delusion.

Yet most do not kill, nor do they involve themselves in child abuse....in fact they are IMHO much less apt to indulge in either practise....

The church offered access to children and then covered up their abuses.

Schools offer access but will put you in jail for being a freak.

See the difference?

If you are accusing them, as a group, of being more prone to such acts than the general population........rationality and fair play would demand that you present some evidence of same.

"In 1934, for example, Abraham Franzblau discovered a negative correlation between religiosity and honesty. In 1950, Murray Ross discovered that agnostics and atheists were more willing to help the poor than their deeply religious counterparts. In 1969, sociologists Travis Hirschi and Rodney Stark found no difference between young churchgoers and young non-churchgoers regarding their propensity to commit crimes. Other studies revealed that college-age students in religious schools were no less likely to cheat on exams.


Finally, David Wulff's comprehensive survey of studies on the psychology of religion revealed a consistent positive correlation between religious affiliation and ethnocentrism, authoritarianism, dogmatism, intolerance, and racial prejudice. "The conclusion is clear," writes Shermer, "not only does religion not necessarily make one more moral, it can lead to greater intolerance, racism, sexism, and the erosion of other values cherished in a free and democratic society" (236)."


Source


I've played both sides of this coin......been raised in a very religious extended family, absolute Ozzie and Harriet stuff..... and spent my youth playing hippy.........and I didn't find the violent perverts I encountered in the Baptist church.

Sure and if you were a viking you could say the same of people sitting in their villages. Meanwhile the men would be out raping and pillaging. Like we do to the third world and in Afghanistan.

You could say the same thing if you lived in Afghanistan. It isn't Islam creating all the problems because there are plenty of descent people.

The problem is, however, that your argument isn't supported by the evidence. Irrational thought and belief is the problem.
 

Cannuck

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At one time people believed in Thor, Isis, Sammas and other such gods. Just because a group shares a delusion doesn't validate the delusion.

...and just because some people think it's a delusion, doesn't mean it's a delusion...and just because some people think Catholics approve of pedophilia, doesn't mean Catholics approve of pedophilia.

The church offered access to children and then covered up their abuses.

First of all, the Church did not "offer access". Access was incidental. Secondly, you are confusing the church as an entity or organization with church doctrine. Church doctrine does not condone child molesting. Individuals within the church condoned it. That is the difference between the instance of this kids murder by this cult and the sex scandals in the Catholic church.

I understand you have a hard-on against religion and the Catholic church but there really is no need to take this particular story and make it about something that it is not.

Sure and if you were a viking you could say the same of people sitting in their villages. Meanwhile the men would be out raping and pillaging. Like we do to the third world and in Afghanistan.

Who is this "we" you speak of? Are you suggesting people are being raped in Afghanistan by Canadian soldiers. You should call somebody and complain.
 

Colpy

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At one time people believed in Thor, Isis, Sammas and other such gods. Just because a group shares a delusion doesn't validate the delusion.



The church offered access to children and then covered up their abuses.

Schools offer access but will put you in jail for being a freak.

See the difference?



"In 1934, for example, Abraham Franzblau discovered a negative correlation between religiosity and honesty. In 1950, Murray Ross discovered that agnostics and atheists were more willing to help the poor than their deeply religious counterparts. In 1969, sociologists Travis Hirschi and Rodney Stark found no difference between young churchgoers and young non-churchgoers regarding their propensity to commit crimes. Other studies revealed that college-age students in religious schools were no less likely to cheat on exams.


Finally, David Wulff's comprehensive survey of studies on the psychology of religion revealed a consistent positive correlation between religious affiliation and ethnocentrism, authoritarianism, dogmatism, intolerance, and racial prejudice. "The conclusion is clear," writes Shermer, "not only does religion not necessarily make one more moral, it can lead to greater intolerance, racism, sexism, and the erosion of other values cherished in a free and democratic society" (236)."


Source




Sure and if you were a viking you could say the same of people sitting in their villages. Meanwhile the men would be out raping and pillaging. Like we do to the third world and in Afghanistan.

You could say the same thing if you lived in Afghanistan. It isn't Islam creating all the problems because there are plenty of descent people.

The problem is, however, that your argument isn't supported by the evidence. Irrational thought and belief is the problem.

Hmmmm....Cannuck addressed most of your points above quite well......except I too would like to challenge you on your characterization of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan....you owe them all an apology.

As for Kenneth Krause.....I googled him looking for credentials. He has none. I fail to be impressed.
 

Scott Free

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Hmmmm....Cannuck addressed most of your points above quite well......

lol, I'm not surprised you think so.

except I too would like to challenge you on your characterization of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan....you owe them all an apology.

I owe them nothing.

As for Kenneth Krause.....I googled him looking for credentials. He has none. I fail to be impressed.

But ancient bronze age mythology does? LMAO.

Fail.