Net closes on alleged Nazi death camp guard

china

Time Out
Jul 30, 2006
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Net closes on alleged Nazi death camp guard
6 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AFP) — The net appears to be closing on alleged war criminal John Demjanjuk, one of the few high-profile Nazi holocaust suspects still thought to be at large.
The 88-year-old is wanted in Germany for helping to kill 29,000 Jews in seven months, when he served as a guard at Sobibor concentration camp in Nazi-occupied Poland in 1943.
Dubbed "Ivan the Terrible," Demjanjuk currently lives in Ohio, but now faces extradition to Germany.
Authorities in Washington on Wednesday said they would "support" Berlin's efforts to try the former camp guard.
"The US Government ... has been in close contact with our German counterparts on this matter and we will continue to offer our support and assistance," a Justice Department spokeswoman told AFP.
The US authorities did not say if Demjanjuk would be extradited to Germany from the Cleveland suburb where he currently lives.
"It's something we've been working on for a very long time," said Eli Rosenbaum, director of the Justice Department's special investigations office.
On Wednesday, Germany's Justice Ministry said the US would now either expel Demjanjuk or extradition would be sought.
The Ukrainian-born Demjanjuk moved to the United States in 1952 with his family, changing his name from Ivan to John and becoming a motor mechanic.
In 1977, former inmates at the infamous Treblinka death camp identified Demjanjuk as "Ivan the Terrible" during a US Justice Department investigation.
He was extradited from the United States to Israel in 1986, where he was sentenced to death two years later.
The case later collapsed amid doubts about Demjanjuk's identity, prompting his return to the United States, where he was put under house arrest.
Rosenbaum told AFP Demjanjuk is now considered "stateless" after being stripped of his US citizenship in 2002 for lying about his wartime activities.
His US citizenship was stripped on grounds that included "willing" service in a Nazi unit that was "dedicated to exploiting and exterminating" Jewish civilians in Nazi-occupied Poland, the Justice Department said in a statement.
Demjanjuk tried in vain to recover his US citizenship at the country's Supreme Court, which rejected his bid last year.
According to Peter Black, a historian at Washington's Holocaust Museum, Demjanjuk's position is clear.
"His status in the US is that of a deportable alien, he is ineligible to stay in the US. You can take it from there," Black said.
Although Demjanjuk is considered one of the youngest Nazi suspects at large, Black pointed out he will be 89 later this month.
"Whether he lives long enough to go on trial really depends on how quickly the German authorities move and how quickly he actually goes to trial.
"There seems to be no question, at least from the arrest order, that the Germans are serious about this," he added.
On Friday, Demjanjuk's wife Vera told Germany's Bild daily that the couple "now only wanted to die in peace."
But that has looked unlikely since charges against him were revived in a 1999 investigation, which turned up evidence that he had worked as a guard at three other Nazi death camps.
US investigators brought together witness accounts which described how Demjanjuk was seen at Sobibor, kicking Jews or hitting them with his rifle butt to get them out of railway wagons more quickly.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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Just ridiculous. In 1943 Demjanjuk was 22 years old. Do we really think he was in charge of anything? Do we really believe this young man was responsible for the genocidal policies of the Nazi government. Of course all those who were in charge, are now dead so they are unavailable.
 

Vereya

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Apr 20, 2006
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I agree with Juan. The ones who had engineered the whole thing have been dead for a long time. The remaining ones are just pawns, that were used and then thrown away. The other side of the matter is that each war, each struggle attracts not only ideologically sound people, who truly believe in their cause, but a lot of sadistic and base ones as well. This very Ivan could have lived his whole life just like any one else, if he were not given this chance to indulge his sadistic streak. Why not start killing all the psycopaths right away? a bit of a Nazi attitude, in itself.
The above in no way means that I am trying to justify the Nazis. I just believe that it's high time to let the matter rest.
 

Colpy

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Just ridiculous. In 1943 Demjanjuk was 22 years old. Do we really think he was in charge of anything? Do we really believe this young man was responsible for the genocidal policies of the Nazi government. Of course all those who were in charge, are now dead so they are unavailable.

On one hand I agree.......it seems a little over the edge to chase this guy down now, he probably wouldn't live to trial. I would bet you $20 the extradition never happens and he dies in the USA.

On the other hand, as a guard in one of the actual extermination camps, yes, he was in charge. Of tens of thousands of Jews. From the sounds of old testimony, he took up the cause of their extermination with some enthusiasm.......an evil, evil man.

The disgrace is they didn't shoot him 60 years ago.
 

einmensch

Electoral Member
Mar 1, 2008
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The disgrace is that people in power and people without out morals support selective prosecution.

A Jewish Monster <<<look at it

Is this your Israeli Idol ? Protect him at all costs. He was a good man. He is an Israeli citizen.


He emigrated to the United States in 1952 and gained citizenship in 1958 but was extradited to Israel in 1986 after the U.S. Justice Department said it believed he was a sadistic Nazi guard at the Treblinka death camp known as Ivan the Terrible.
Demjanjuk spent seven years in custody before the Israeli high court received evidence that the Nazi guard was in fact another Ukrainian, and freed him.
Demjanjuk's U.S. citizenship was restored in 1998, but the Justice Department renewed its case, saying he had indeed been a Nazi guard and could be deported for falsifying information on his U.S. immigration paperwork.
A U.S. court ruled in December 2005 that he could be deported to Ukraine or to Germany or Poland. Demjanjuk spent several years challenging that ruling, until the Supreme Court decision last year. "We hope that the process can be expedited to ensure that this Holocaust perpetrator will finally be appropriately punished," Efraim Zuroff, the top Nazi-hunter at Israel's Simon Wiesenthal Center said by phone from Jerusalem. "We're on our way to a victory for justice today."
March 12, 2009
SYDNEY (AP) -- An 87-year-old man accused of killing a Jewish teenager in Hungary during World War II asked an Australian court on Tuesday to prevent his extradition to Hungary, and claimed the results of a lie detector test prove he had nothing to do with the death.

Willson said Zentai signed a statement in which he denied killing Balazs, disposing of his body or having any involvement in his death. Willson then asked Zentai if all the information on the statement was true, and Zentai said yes. The polygraph showed no deception in Zentai's answer, Willson said, adding the test is 97 percent accurate.
"I will say with 97 percent certainty that he was telling the truth," Willson told the AP. "But my gut feeling after speaking to him and spending quite a few hours with him and him being very, very candid on every single question that I asked, I had no doubt at all in my mind."

Yes, Colpy , you mean hang not shoot, like the little girl that was accused of making shrunken heads and skinning Jews and all the others that were exceuted on now proven lies.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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On one hand I agree.......it seems a little over the edge to chase this guy down now, he probably wouldn't live to trial. I would bet you $20 the extradition never happens and he dies in the USA.

On the other hand, as a guard in one of the actual extermination camps, yes, he was in charge. Of tens of thousands of Jews. From the sounds of old testimony, he took up the cause of their extermination with some enthusiasm.......an evil, evil man.

The disgrace is they didn't shoot him 60 years ago.

What would have happened to this guy if he had refused to do the job he was ordered to do? The guy spent 6 years in an Israeli prison, two years of it were on death row. Finally the trumped up charges in Israel fell apart and he was returned to the U.S.. I would say he has suffered enough. One disgrace is that some people can carry hatred this long.
 

Colpy

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What would have happened to this guy if he had refused to do the job he was ordered to do? The guy spent 6 years in an Israeli prison, two years of it were on death row. Finally the trumped up charges in Israel fell apart and he was returned to the U.S.. I would say he has suffered enough. One disgrace is that some people can carry hatred this long.

Well, his US citizenship was revoked because he lied about his "willing" participation in the extermination of the Jews. Reluctant guards don't often get nicknames like "Ivan the Terrible".

And I'm not sure about "trumped up" charges.....I think his release reveals the effectiveness of the Israeli justice system when there is reasonable doubt......

But, let's face it, if the state of Israel could not successfully prove who and what he was, with the witnesses still alive and there, and with the full co-operation of Germany.....well, it is time to drop it. On that much I agree. The USA should not kick him out a second time.
 

CanadianLove

Electoral Member
Feb 7, 2009
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Was it an 88 year old (+/- 4 years) who tracked him down? When you hand the hate down from generation to generation, you are no better than they you accuse.

Wasn't that God's thing before Christ, according to the writters of the Bible. It's in there somewhere that he holds the people responcible for ten generations.
 

tracy

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Nov 10, 2005
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I think there is a difference between hating someone and wanting justice. But, on a case like this I think it's time to let go. If Israel couldn't prove his guilt years ago then Germany can't today. If he did what he's accused of, then he'll pay for it one way or another. If he didn't do those things then it's tragic how he's suffered.
 

china

Time Out
Jul 30, 2006
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Demjanjuk set to end his last chapter in U.S.


Demjanjuk




By Marilyn H. Karfeld
Senior Staff Reporter


Published: Friday, March 13, 2009 1:10 AM EDT
After three decades of defending himself from prosecution, former Nazi concentration camp guard John Demjanjuk should soon be leaving the U.S. to stand trial in Germany for his wartime crimes.

On Wednesday, German prosecutors charged Demjanjuk with more than 29,000 counts of accessory to the murder of Jews and announced that they will seek his extradition, the AP reported. The retired U.S. autoworker, 88, is accused of taking part in the crimes between March and September 1943, while he served as a guard at Sobibor, the Nazi death camp in occupied Poland.

Last summer, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear Demjanjuk's appeal of his deportation order to Ukraine, Poland or Germany. Demjanjuk, who had argued that the nation’s chief immigration judge lacked authority to order his deportation, has now exhausted all of his court appeals.

The German extradition request and Supreme Court denial make it likely that “in a matter of weeks” Demjanjuk will be on a plane to Germany, says David Leopold, a Cleveland immigration attorney. The U.S. now “has the authority to pick him up and remove him.”

Once he’s delivered to Germany under a valid, final order of deportation, “he’s not coming back” to the U.S., even if Germany does not convict him of the war crimes charges, says Leopold. “Once he’s removed, it’s over with.”

The U.S. does not need to hold an extradition hearing, which could take months, because U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) could just deport Demjanjuk to Germany, which presumably would agree to accept him, Leopold explains. However, Germany could require an extradition hearing, delaying his deportation, Leopold acknowledges.

Demjanjuk has been stateless while the U.S. has tried, thus far unsuccessfully, to persuade Ukraine or another country to take him. Last fall, when Munich prosecutors first announced their intent to seek Demjanjuk’s extradition, his attorney and family said he was too frail and ill to travel to Germany.

Efraim Zuroff, director of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Jerusalem and that nation’s chief Nazi hunter, could not be reached by telephone. But Zuroff told the AP earlier that he was very pleased with Germany’s announcement. “We’re on our way to a victory for justice today.”

Last November, Germany’s chief Holocaust-crimes prosecutor recommended that German authorities seek Demjanjuk’s extradition from the U.S. to try him for war crimes. Enough evidence existed to prove that the Ukrainian-born Demjanjuk took part in the 1943 murders of at least 29,000 Jews at Sobibor.

According to Zuroff, a guard previously gave testimony that he saw Demjanjuk actively participate in the mass murders at Sobibor. While the guard is now dead, the evidence still exists, Zuroff told the CJN in an interview last November.


Demjanjuk was convicted in 2002 in Cleveland federal court of serving as a concentration camp guard, denaturalized and later ordered deported. In his 2002 ruling, federal Judge Paul R. Matia wrote, “Guards (at Sobibor) forcibly unloaded Jews from trains, compelled them to disrobe, and drove them into gas chambers, where they were murdered by asphyxiation with carbon dioxide.”

Previously stripped of his U.S. citizenship for lying on his naturalization documents about being Treblinka death camp guard “Ivan the Terrible,” Demjanjuk was extradited to Israel in 1986. There he was convicted and sentenced to death.

In 1993, the Israeli Supreme Court overturned his conviction based on new evidence made available after the collapse of the Soviet Union that someone else was Ivan the Terrible. Demjanjuk returned to the U.S. and his citizenship was reinstated, but the U.S. later charged him with lying on his immigration papers about his service in other concentration camps.

Demjanjuk, a resident of the Cleveland suburb of Seven Hills, has always denied that he served as a concentration camp guard. He insists that he is a victim of mistaken identity; he claims that he was a soldier in the Soviet Army, captured by the Germans, and spent most of the war in prisoner-of-war camps.

Consensus among young people in Germany today is that the country still must take responsibility for the Holocaust, says Susanne Ehard, 20, a CJN editorial intern and a native of Düsseldorf. Sometimes she and her friends get tired of hearing about Nazi crimes from decades before they were born, she says, especially as she grew up taught the ideals of equality and to respect everyone.

Still, Ehard says, extraditing Demjanjuk to stand trial for war crimes “is the right thing to do. It shows that Germany still cares about its past.” She plans to return to Germany in June after two years working as a nanny for the family of Rabbi Edward Bernstein of Congregation Shaarey Tikvah.

Germany must take responsibility for its past, she insists, “to show the world that we have changed and that it’s not going to happen again.”

mkarfeld@cjn.org
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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I thought this case was over years ago when he was deported to Israel:

From the first post:
...He was extradited from the United States to Israel in 1986, where he was sentenced to death two years later.

The case later collapsed amid doubts about Demjanjuk's identity, prompting his return to the United States, where he was put under house arrest...

So now they are sending him to Germany to repeat the same process? If Germany has a better chance of prving his identity than Israel, maybe they should have sent him there in the first place.

If he really is Ivan the terrible, he should get life. But if this is a case of mistaken identity, then what's happened to this person is cruel and unusual.
 

einmensch

Electoral Member
Mar 1, 2008
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http://www.nazigassings.com/dieselgaschamber.html -full work up

Every night across the world, tens of thousands of truck drivers sleep in their truck cabs with the Diesel engines running throughout the night – to keep warm in winter or cool in summer. Although there are always some exhaust leaks into the van compartment of a truck, there is no evidence of even one trucker dying, or being injured, in such circumstances. It never happens. There are no known Diesel suicides either. Diesel exhaust is inherently safe.

"The Nazis did not manufacture soap from human fat, and did not kill their victims with Diesel exhaust. All these rumors were circulated in 1942, but we have the duty to thoroughly separate these rumors and fabrications from the facts and truth. Little lies provide fodder for the deniers and act against us."
Illustration 10: New Russian Word admits frankly: The Revisionists have the "air superiority"; Diesel exhaust is unsuitable for mass murder! Here the issue of February 28, 1995: "Ideology Holocaust" (Проверка Катастрофой.

there is a detailed study of the actual effects of full strength Diesel exhaust on living animals. It appeared in the British Journal of industrial Medicine in 1957.[58] To my knowledge, this is the only study of this type ever undertaken and is the most important single piece of evidence for the analysis of Diesel toxicity anywhere.
Eight experiments were performed with undiluted exhaust from a small Diesel engine [70] under four different operating conditions – two essentially identical experiments for each operating condition. Each experiment was performed on four rabbits, ten guinea-pigs, and forty mice. The animals were only introduced into the chamber after the Diesel exhaust concentrations had had approximately half-an-hour to stabilize and purge the chamber of all other air.
In the two tests under "low" load (Condition A: no external load, only accessories such as the cooling fan), which was essentially an "idle" condition, there were no fatalities among any of the test animals even after five hours of continuous exposure. But even under Conditions B and C where the engine was under heavy load (with "a large fan and two hydraulic pumps to provide the load"), the survival rate was as follows:
  1. All rabbits survived the five hour exposure and even continued to live for a week thereafter.
  2. Of the guinea-pigs, only one died during the actual five-hour exposure period, although most died over the next seven days.
  3. Of the mice, only a minority died during the five hour exposure and most even survived through the following week.
Under Condition D, which was by far the most extreme test with a severely restricted air intake,[71] a maximum CO level of 0.22%/vol. was produced with an oxygen concentration of 11.4%/vol. Although many, but not all, of the mice died within an hour, all of the rabbits and guinea-pigs survived for more than one hour of continuous exposure.[72]
For exposures only as long as Gerstein alleged (32 minutes), the survival rates would have certainly been even better. In other words, on the basis of tests on living animals with full-strength Diesel exhaust, Gerstein's gas chamber would have been a complete fiasco.

More soap and lampshades.
Perhaps this Jewish hero should be sent to Poland.
 

einmensch

Electoral Member
Mar 1, 2008
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Same old fertilizer? Preaching? Hung? So my posts are common knowledge? You have seen these 1957 studies etc before? You are warning me that I'm in danger?
I have simply posted material that is floating around. Sad that you should see someone being hung for presenting scientific research but then Copernicus waited until after his death to publish. I guess for you it's easy. Lumber up to a tree lift a leg and all is great. Point out the fertilizer wolf--with your nose should be able to smell feces---