Whither Neocons? Withering?

[Spade]

With the inauguration of President-elect Obama on Tuesday next is seen by many as a turning point in american politics. Perhaps, but what will happen to the neocons who were such an integral part of the Bush Administration?

Jonathan Clarke offers his opinion on the BBC website. Click here.

He defines neoconservatism as follows:
"-a tendency to see the world in binary good/evil terms
-low tolerance for diplomacy
-readiness to use military force
-emphasis on US unilateral action
-disdain for multilateral organisations
-focus on the Middle East"

Your thoughts?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Just curious, but what do you call the people that need to continually and
compulsively define Conservatives as Neocons? Ever notice that most
Conservatives (Neocons, I guess...) couldn't be bothered to continually
define what a Democrat or a Liberal is? Strange, that. 8O

 

[Cannuck]

The term is overused to the point that it is meaningless.

 

[Spade]

The term is overused to the point that it is meaningless.

Perhaps, but that's why I included the definition. Just to distinguish them from the Joe-Clark conservatives!

 

[Scott Free]

Just curious, but what do you call the people that need to continually and
compulsively define Conservatives as Neocons? Ever notice that most
Conservatives (Neocons, I guess...) couldn't be bothered to continually
define what a Democrat or a Liberal is? Strange, that. 8O

Neocons are not conservatives and IMO the label is a poor choice. Their doctrine may have been somewhat adopted by Republicans but that doesn't mean it's conservative. The idea of the left and right was created through the seating arrangements in the French Parliament and has sweet piss all to do with reality. It seems those original divisions have been redefined in the USA. I think an analysis of who is a neocon is a little like trying to figure out who is a real conservative and who is an imposter. If you can place all the cancers in one dish theoretically what is left are healthy cells. At some point, if the USA hopes to escape ruinous complete collapse, they are going to have to start sorting out their rhetoric. For example a Republican is no more a conservative than a beach ball is a planet, and likewise if you claim a Democrat is a liberal then you might as well claim a giraffe is a rose bush. Actually, in the world of US politics no distortion is too preposterous it would seem – luckily beach balls and giraffes can’t hire lobbyists.

 

[Said1]

Just curious, but what do you call the people that need to continually and
compulsively define Conservatives as Neocons? Ever notice that most
Conservatives (Neocons, I guess...) couldn't be bothered to continually
define what a Democrat or a Liberal is? Strange, that. 8O

That's probably because they'\re too busy pointing and yelling 'pervert' or 'communist'. :lol:

 

[Cliffy]

That's probably because they'\re too busy pointing and yelling 'pervert' or 'communist'. :lol:

My all time favourite is: Pinko Commy Fag.

 

[Ron in Regina]

That's probably because they'\re too busy pointing and yelling 'pervert' or 'communist'. :lol:

8O8O :lol::lol::lol: 8O8O
______________

 

[Toro]

Neocons withering?

That is, like, so 2005.

 

[Spade]

Neocons withering?

That is, like, so 2005.

Yep, I should've known better than try to be cutesy with the bovine crowd! I guess, grazing-out-in-the-cold shrinkage would have made more sense to you! Cheers!

 

[Toro]

Yep, I should've known better than try to be cutesy with the bovine crowd! I guess, grazing-out-in-the-cold shrinkage would have made more sense to you! Cheers!

And in other recent news, the Toronto Maple Leafs win the Stanley Cup.

 

[Spade]

And in other recent news, the Toronto Maple Leafs win the Stanley Cup.

Ahhh, a Ducks fan!

 

[Toro]

Ahhh, a Ducks fan!

:lol::lol:

 

[Walter]

Perhaps, but that's why I included the definition. Just to distinguish them from the Joe-Clark conservatives!

Clark was never a conservative.

 

[EagleSmack]

Well as a conservative American, who at one time was a registered Democrat and has never been a registered Republican I can say that I am looking forward to a new President. I did not vote for him but I wish him well. I am what they called "Unenrolled" which means I do not belong to either party.

I will surely bring things up about Obama (as i did yesterday with the burning Obama posters) because I feel that a lot of the Democrat membership is just so anti-conservative and would rather have the country go down the tubes under GOP leadership than work for a better country. SO I like giving them a taste of their own medicine.

But Conservatism withering? Hardly. The same rhetoric was dealt when Clinton defeated Bush Sr. It was that uppity attitude that cost the Democrats the House during the mid-term elections during the Clinton years and the Democrats losing the Whitehouse after Clinton completed his 8 years.

Someday both the Democrats and GOP will work together for a better America but I am not sure if I will see it.

 

[Tyr]

The term is overused to the point that it is meaningless.

"Neo-cons" are oriented more on the lines of a "Libertarian". They are actually few and far between in Canada, but are a "potent" faction in the US at ~10% of the voting population

Libertarianism is a term used by a spectrum of political philosophies which seek to promote individual liberty and seek to minimize or even abolish the state

Finding a "true" Conservative is a bit of an anarchonism in both Canada and the US

Conservatism is a political and social term whose meaning has changed in different countries and time periods, but which usually indicates support for the status quo or the status quo ante.

Neo-Conservatism is more prevalent in the US especially with the rise of the evangelicals and in concert with the Regean/Bush's international intervention policies

Neoconservatism is a political philosophy that emerged in the United States. Its key distinction is in international affairs, where it espouses an interventionist approach that seeks to defend what neo-conservatives deem as national interests. In addition, unlike traditional conservatives, neoconservatives are comfortable with a minimally-bureaucratic welfare state; and, while generally supportive of free markets, they are willing to interfere for overriding social purposes.

If you wanted to make the distinction. You could label the old Reform Party as "neo-cons" and the "new" Conservatives as "Red Tories"

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Just curious, but what do you call the people that need to continually and
compulsively define Conservatives as Neocons? Ever notice that most
Conservatives (Neocons, I guess...) couldn't be bothered to continually
define what a Democrat or a Liberal is? Strange, that. 8O

Ron, I am gilty of that, BUT, it is hard not to flair up when a Liberal is called a Gliberal, Fiberal and many other demeaning names by a Conservative... and of course both sides have thrown demeaning rocks to each other.
It is true when people say "politics makes strange bed fellows"
It is true though that Neoconservativesem is made from all this elements below.

Jonathan Clarke offers his opinion on the BBC website. Click here.

He defines neoconservatism as follows:
"-a tendency to see the world in binary good/evil terms
-low tolerance for diplomacy
-readiness to use military force
-emphasis on US unilateral action
-disdain for multilateral organisations
-focus on the Middle East"

 

[Ron in Regina]

Yeah I here ya Socrates....."Neocon"...."Ron the Con"....and so on and so forth.....

You've just gotta be able to laugh at yourself in the heat of the debate. It can be
pretty tough sometimes though. It would be nice to hear some new and original
insults sometimes, if someone really needs to throw them at you, wouldn't it?
The same old-same old gets a little tired after a while. A new one can make
you giggle, even when it's pointed at you!

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Yeah I here ya Socrates....."Neocon"...."Ron the Con"....and so on and so forth.....

You've just gotta be able to laugh at yourself in the heat of the debate. It can be
pretty tough sometimes though. It would be nice to hear some new and original
insults sometimes, if someone really needs to throw them at you, wouldn't it?
The same old-same old gets a little tired after a while. A new one can make
you giggle, even when it's pointed at you!

:smile::smile::smile:

 

[Cannuck]

If you wanted to make the distinction. You could label the old Reform Party as "neo-cons" and the "new" Conservatives as "Red Tories"

That kinda backs up what I said. The old Reform party had some members that you could label as "neo-cons" but their heart and soul (Preston Manning) was definitely not. He would be better termed a democrat.

In addition, unlike traditional conservatives, neoconservatives are comfortable with a minimally-bureaucratic welfare state; and, while generally supportive of free markets, they are willing to interfere for overriding social purposes.

Sounds like Joe Clark, Peter Lougheed, Mike Harris, Brian Muroney, Richard Nixon...hell, pretty much every "conservative" since WWII. Like I said, the term is meaningless....kinda like liberal.