More the Marry in Bountiful, BC

[Spade]

According to a CBC report, two leaders from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Bountiful, BC, were charged with bigamy.

Quote:
"Two rival leaders of a religious community in Bountiful, B.C., have been charged with practising polygamy.

The CBC has confirmed that Winston Blackmore and James Oler were charged on Tuesday for alleged offences that took place in May 2005 and November 2004.

More details are expected to be released Wednesday at a news conference scheduled for noon PT.

Blackmore, the one-time bishop of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in the rural community in B.C.'s Southern Interior, is rumoured to have fathered about 80 children by his 26 wives."

It's about time!

 

[Tyr]

Blackmore, the one-time bishop of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in the rural community in B.C.'s Southern Interior, is rumoured to have fathered about 80 children by his 26 wives."


um... er... EWWWWWWWWWW!!!

(I'm speechless!!!)

 

[shadowshiv]

Sheesh. He could almost have a whole town's worth of family!8O

 

[Spade]

Wally Oppal explained why he took the step of prosecuting this case, when so many crown attorneys had advised against prosecution in the past. Oppal declared that in his view bigamy is an infringement of women's rights - in particular the right to be defended against sexual harm. To Oppal, an appeal by the defendants on the basis of Freedom of Religion in the Charter, may well occur. But, it is up too the courts to decide what takes precedence.

To me, similar cases are questions not of Freedom of Religion but questions of the separation of church and state. Freedom of Religion should not trump the civil or criminal codes. Is murder, for example, a question of Religious Freedom?

The fact that this case did not arise in the past speaks ill of the bravery of our justice system to prosecute injustice.

 

[earth_as_one]

I expect the polygamists will win their case. The law has no place in the bedrooms of consenting adults. These people have a right to decide how they want to live and the rest of us have no right to impose our version of morality on them. Also in this particualr case these people can claim charter protection related to Freedom of Religion.

We already have laws to protect children and adults from sexual exploitation or forced marriages. Those issues should not be a factor in this case, especially when the women are demanding the right to enter polygamous marriages. The current law is the infringement on a person's right to choose who they want to love.

Once the polygamists win their case, Canada will have to write new laws regarding marriage, divorce and child custody related to polygamous/polyandrous relationships.

If you find polygamous or polyandrous relationships unpalatable, then don't enter into one. That's free choice.

The current law prevents these people's free choice and that's a problem.

 

[karrie]

Why on earth does our government keep trying to prosecute on something that should be the rights of consenting adults, rather than prosecuting on the real root of the problem, which is child marriage in these sorts of sects? They muddy the waters and confuse the issue. They needs to stop chasing 'polygamists' and start chasing 'sex offenders'.

 

[VanIsle]

As I recall, the courts are looking at this in regard to the children that are involved. I don't remember all of the names that have given an opinion here.Whoever it was that said they will win the right to have multiple marriages is wrong. Spade, the law does trump religion both here and in most cases. I know people do "wrong" in the name of religion all the time but there is a difference. This man (men) take advantage of little girls who do what their parents make them do and all of it is disgusting. Dirty old men looking for a virgin. Makes you wonder if they ever made love to a woman or just raped them - with parental consent. Bountiful, BC is it's own sordid little community. I believe we discussed this at length on the other forums. Cliff, you are not here yet, but I believe they live in an area not too too far from you. Many women have had the luxury of escaping Bountiful and reporting it. Time and again there are stories in our papers about the horrors there. I watched a little of Wally Oppal at noon today on TV but there were people talking in the room and other music playing in the background so it was hard to hear much of what he said. I gathered the case is going to go before the SCOC but maybe I'm wrong there. I think there is also a "Bountiful" in Utah as well. There are Latter Day Saints that do not believe in this aspect of their faith and do not participate. They are no more happy with those who dwell in Bountiful then the rest of us are.

 

[Scott Free]

Blackmore, the one-time bishop of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in the rural community in B.C.'s Southern Interior, is rumoured to have fathered about 80 children by his 26 wives."


um... er... EWWWWWWWWWW!!!

(I'm speechless!!!)

In evolutionary terms that's extremely successful. I've heard it estimated that 1 in 100 Asians are a direct descendant of Genghis khan; probably the greatest champion of all time if procreating is a sport that is.

 

[earth_as_one]

The issue here as karrie pointed out is polygamy, not child marriages or forced marriages. We already have laws regarding those issues. So let's not confuse what we are talking about.

Consenting adults who chose of their own free will to enter a polygamous or polyandrous relationship should have that right. This type of relationship is preferable, more just and honest than married men and women who have longterm affairs on the side. If everyone involved is cool with what's going on, then its no one else's business and certainly not the state's.

In some religions multiple wives are the norm if you can afford it. I would argue that a women is far better off in a loving caring polygamous relationship with a wealthy man she loves than in a abusive love/hate relationship with an unemployed deadbeat husband. Not all men deserve a women in their life.

I saw an interview, where not only was the first wife cool with her husband taking a second and third wife, she helped him pick out the third wife. Wife #1 and 3 work. Wife #2 loves children and stays at home. She takes care of all the children and runs the house. Its very efficient. The family is very wealthy and successful. Everyone seems happy. Why should the state interfere?

Polyandry is less common, but it also exists. Its possible it might work out in specific situations. Fraternal polyandry is a practical solution to the problem of inheritance and over-population in some areas of Tibet. The sons share the same wife and share the family plot generation after generation. Without polyandry, the family plot would become divided to the point where it could no longer sustain a family. Again everyone seems happy and it creates a stable family environment. So why mess with a system which has kept the peace for countless generations.

People who try to impose their morality on others are a pain in the ass. Why don't you mind your own business and stop trying to make other people miserable, because you have a problem with what makes them happy.

 

[Scott Free]

I care little for the petty rulings of a government I abhor. For me the bigger issues are of more interest than what the tyranny of fools dictates I should and shouldn't do - just that they think they can stop me demonstrates their idiocy.

 

[Cliffy]

I really don't understand why they are prosecuting polygamy. The issues here are far more complex and as far as I can tell, Oppal has bent to pressure from a lot of groups that have been after shutting down Bountiful for at least twenty years or more, that I've been aware of. I think they have been looking at child abuse and sex with underage girls but after decades of investigations they have not been able to come up with anything that will stick in court.

I have never been to Bountiful and I know that Mormons that I know call polygamists Black Mormons. Although I am concerned about the abuse of young girls and some of the reports of throwing young men out of the community because the old farts want all the young girls for themselves, but as far as polygamy goes, I have no opinion. I'm sure if it was women that had multiple husbands, women wouldn't be quite as upset about it.

 

[talloola]

The issue here as karrie pointed out is polygamy, not child marriages or forced marriages. We already have laws regarding those issues. So let's not confuse what we are talking about.

Consenting adults who chose of their own free will to enter a polygamous or polyandrous relationship should have that right. This type of relationship is preferable, more just and honest than married men and women who have longterm affairs on the side. If everyone involved is cool with what's going on, then its no one else's business and certainly not the state's.

In some religions multiple wives are the norm if you can afford it. I would argue that a women is far better off in a loving caring polygamous relationship with a wealthy man she loves than in a abusive love/hate relationship with an unemployed deadbeat husband. Not all men deserve a women in their life.

I saw an interview, where not only was the first wife cool with her husband taking a second and third wife, she helped him pick out the third wife. Wife #1 and 3 work. Wife #2 loves children and stays at home. She takes care of all the children and runs the house. Its very efficient. The family is very wealthy and successful. Everyone seems happy. Why should the state interfere?

Polyandry is less common, but it also exists. Its possible it might work out in specific situations. Fraternal polyandry is a practical solution to the problem of inheritance and over-population in some areas of Tibet. The sons share the same wife and share the family plot generation after generation. Without polyandry, the family plot would become divided to the point where it could no longer sustain a family. Again everyone seems happy and it creates a stable family environment. So why mess with a system which has kept the peace for countless generations.

People who try to impose their morality on others are a pain in the ass. Why don't you mind your own business and stop trying to make other people miserable, because you have a problem with what makes them happy.

Don't think anyone is concerned with adults who are happy, only with children
who are forced into marriage with men they have no say about, and are
brought up to be obedient to such arrangements, and too brain washed to
know how to free themselves, and eventually they think they are living a
life that they want, but they had no choice.
This is a country of "freedom', and those children are not allowed to make
free choices.
Some are forced to marry men who could be their fathers, or even grandfathers.

 

[earth_as_one]

Then your problem is with forced marriages and child marriages, not polygamy.

The problems you describe are not unique to polygamy and can happen in monogomous marriages just as easily.

You are confusing different issues.

Polygamy which involves consenting adults of free will should be legal.

Forced marriages or child marriages which can happen in monogomous or polygamous marriages are already illegal in Canada.

 

[VanIsle]

That is sick. Because some old fart wants a young virgin (child molestation in essence) and adds her to his harem, you say the problem is not with multiple marriage that he hides behind in the name of religion? You want to have polygamy legal? Go to some country where it is. This is Canada and the vast majority highly disagree and even you seem to know that multiple marriage is illegal. It may not be immoral to you but it sure is to me.

 

[earth_as_one]

What are you talking about? Polygamy between consulting adults or child marriage? They are different issues. Polygamy is the issue here, try to stay on topic.

If a 50 year old man marries two 50 year old women, that would be polygamy. Do you have a problem this and why?

If a 50 year old man marries a 14 year old girl that would be child marriage and that's already illegal in Canada.

If the 50 year old man marries two 50 year old woman and a 14 year old girl, your problem appears to to be with the child marriage issue, not polygamy.

 

[Scott Free]

What are you talking about? Polygamy between consulting adults or child marriage? They are different issues. Polygamy is the issue here, try to stay on topic.

If a 50 year old man marries two 50 year old women, that would be polygamy. Do you have a problem this and why?

If a 50 year old man marries a 14 year old girl that would be child marriage and that's already illegal in Canada.

If the 50 year old man marries two 50 year old woman and a 14 year old girl, your problem appears to to be with the child marriage issue, not polygamy.

Exactly right.

And if the man can't marry two women then can he live with them both and is that common law? What happens if they go their separate ways?

Should the tyranny of fools outlaw living together more than two people to one time?

I watched a movie called The Invasion and thought it should have been called the Canada since the antagonist had the same utopia nanny state in mind it seems our elite are hell bent on cramming down our throats.

 

[JLM]

According to a CBC report, two leaders from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Bountiful, BC, were charged with bigamy.

Quote:
"Two rival leaders of a religious community in Bountiful, B.C., have been charged with practising polygamy.

The CBC has confirmed that Winston Blackmore and James Oler were charged on Tuesday for alleged offences that took place in May 2005 and November 2004.

More details are expected to be released Wednesday at a news conference scheduled for noon PT.

Blackmore, the one-time bishop of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in the rural community in B.C.'s Southern Interior, is rumoured to have fathered about 80 children by his 26 wives."

It's about time!

I think it was actually polygamy, Spade, and about bloody time. It's ridiculous to have laws on the books that aren't being enforced and it's real bloody crock when the beliefs of religious wingnuts supercede the law. Glad Oppal finally grew a spine. THAT is one area where church and state should definitely be divided. I just wish the victims had a little more backbone, so they would testify against these assh*les.

 

[JLM]

Why on earth does our government keep trying to prosecute on something that should be the rights of consenting adults, rather than prosecuting on the real root of the problem, which is child marriage in these sorts of sects? They muddy the waters and confuse the issue. They needs to stop chasing 'polygamists' and start chasing 'sex offenders'.

I think they should be doing both, Karrie. Polygamy is definitely contrary to the law and there should be no problem prosecuting. I guess the real problem is what is defined as "children". In some jurisdictions marriage at age 14 is perfectly legal (we all know this guy is a child molester), but the way the law stands now the only practical way of getting the A-hole is by convicting him on the polygamy and then to handle the molestation, give him the maximum sentence allowed for polygamy.

 

[JLM]

I expect the polygamists will win their case. The law has no place in the bedrooms of consenting adults. These people have a right to decide how they want to live and the rest of us have no right to impose our version of morality on them. Also in this particualr case these people can claim charter protection related to Freedom of Religion.

We already have laws to protect children and adults from sexual exploitation or forced marriages. Those issues should not be a factor in this case, especially when the women are demanding the right to enter polygamous marriages. The current law is the infringement on a person's right to choose who they want to love.

Once the polygamists win their case, Canada will have to write new laws regarding marriage, divorce and child custody related to polygamous/polyandrous relationships.

If you find polygamous or polyandrous relationships unpalatable, then don't enter into one. That's free choice.

The current law prevents these people's free choice and that's a problem.

You're overlooking one minor detail- POLYGAMY IS AGAINST THE LAW. I couldn't care less if a guy wanted to "shack up" with 50 mature consenting women at the same time as long as they are self-supporting, but if one of those 50 is a child, I want the S.O.'B. out of commission.

 

[karrie]

I think they should be doing both, Karrie. Polygamy is definitely contrary to the law and there should be no problem prosecuting. I guess the real problem is what is defined as "children". In some jurisdictions marriage at age 14 is perfectly legal (we all know this guy is a child molester), but the way the law stands now the only practical way of getting the A-hole is by convicting him on the polygamy and then to handle the molestation, give him the maximum sentence allowed for polygamy.

My point was JLM, that they're prosecuting them on a faulty premise that doesn't stand up in court. Marriage had been redefined in recent years, and if taken to the supreme court, it won't stand for long consenting adults shouldn't be allowed to marry whoever they want to, so long as they are another consenting adult. Rather than attempt to reform the law which allows these particular freaks to marry 14 year olds, they just continue trying to prosecute them on polygamy which they will never be able to make stick.

The long and short... Prosecuting on polygamy opens up a can of worms about adult freedom... stop this farce, and change the law that allows them to marry 14 year olds if that's what you're so concerned about.

Because as it is, if it's legal to marry a 14 year old, and the gov loathes it so much that they're going to try to make other charges stick to make up for the inability to charge on that, then the gov is breaking faith with us. If it's so abhorrant to marry 14 year olds... STOP IT FROM HAPPENING!!!