U.S. automaker bailout package dies in Senate

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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White House calls Congress's failure 'disappointing'
U.S. automaker bailout package dies in Senate

A planned $14-billion US federal bailout of the Big Three carmakers died Thursday on the U.S. Senate floor after negotiations between Democrats and Republicans collapsed over a dispute about wage cuts for autoworkers.

The Senate rejected the bailout 52-35 on a procedural vote — well short of the 60 votes needed to pass the plan.

Ahead of the vote, Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he was "terribly disappointed" to see several hours of unprecedented private talks in Washington with Senate Republicans, representatives from the country's auto industry and labour groups come to naught.

"There's too much difference between the two sides," Reid said from the Senate floor.

Asian financial markets fell sharply Friday as news of the failure emerged, with the Nikkei and Hang Seng both down more than five per cent. Reid could only speculate on the potential fallout when North American stock markets opened.

"I dread looking at Wall Street tomorrow," Reid said late Thursday night. "This could be a very, very bad Christmas as a result of what takes place here tonight."

Early indications were that Wall Street would incur a steep sell-off. The Dow Jones industrial average futures contract retreated three per cent overnight from its close Thursday afternoon, suggesting the index will open significantly lower on Friday.

Earlier in the evening, Reid said a tentative deal had been reached and the Senate could vote on legislation that night, but just hours later he asked to invoke closure to end the nighttime legislative session without an agreement.

The deal stalled over the United Auto Workers' refusal to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts before their current contract expires in 2011.

'3 words away' from accord: Republican negotiator

The House of Representatives had passed legislation on Wednesday to speed the bailout package to approval. But prospects for the Senate to pass the rescue funds dimmed early Thursday amid strong Republican opposition, despite urgent appeals by both president-elect Barack Obama and the Republican administration of President George W. Bush.

"We have reached an impasse," said Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, who came out against the legislation — the product of a hard-fought behind-the-scenes compromise between the majority Democrats and the White House.

Bob Corker, a Tennessee Republican senator who led the closed-door talks for his party, said the two sides were "three words away, maybe two" from reaching landmark legislation that would have allowed the automakers to go forward "stronger than they have been in 40 years."

"I think there is a way for us to get there; I still do," Corker told the Senate.

After the vote, White House spokesman Tony Fratto said the Bush administration found it "disappointing" that lawmakers failed to act to avoid disorderly bankruptcies.

"We will evaluate our options in light of the breakdown in Congress," Fratto said.

Can't just stand by: Obama

In Chicago, Obama told reporters that the government can't just stand by and watch the industry collapse, saying that would have a "devastating ripple effect" throughout the economy.

Proponents of the package scrounged for the Senate votes to clear the legislation as early as Thursday afternoon. The president was lobbying for the bill, as well, arguing that the economy can't stand massive new layoffs.

But McConnell said the measure "isn't nearly tough enough." The Republican Senate leader also called for a different bill — one that would force U.S. automakers to slash wages and benefits to bring them in line with Japanese carmakers Nissan, Toyota and Honda — in return for any federal aid.

That approach was virtually certain to be a non-starter among Democrats who count labour unions among their strongest supporters.

Many Republicans remained staunchly opposed to the bailout, and some Democrats were ill or absent from the emergency, post-election congressional session.

Supporters of the bailout acknowledged that in this scenario, getting the requisite 60 votes to pass it would be very difficult.

The stalemate highlighted the difficulty of pushing another rescue package through a bailout-fatigued Congress, particularly one designed to span the administrations of a lame-duck president and his successor, even though they were united in pressing hard for its swift approval.

Hope some lessons are learned from this by our own government if they ever get off their arses.

But until then....

 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
22,830
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The UAW was asked to accept bringing their wages in line with the other Automotive
Manufacturing Plants in America (like Toyota) by sometime in 2009. The UAW said
"Nope...Not 'till sometime in 2011." That killed it. Oh well...
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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Ottawa, ON
The UAW was asked to accept bringing their wages in line with the other Automotive
Manufacturing Plants in America (like Toyota) by sometime in 2009. The UAW said
"Nope...Not 'till sometime in 2011." That killed it. Oh well...

So it would seem that the autoworkers aren't doing that badly then, if they'd choose to keep their wages over a bailout package.

Maybe the auto industry is doing better than we thought. So let 'em swim.
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
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We need concessions from both sides. If the auto industry goes, so goes the country. I know that for a fact, as I work in Security at an automotive plant. If it closed, it would have a HUGE ripple effect on a large number of businesses around the city. If this happened to the big 3?8O It would be a catastrophe. So, these idiots need to get rid of their egos and realize that perhaps they should make a little bit less money per cheque to keep their DAMNED JOBS! Cripes!:angryfire:
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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We need concessions from both sides. If the auto industry goes, so goes the country. I know that for a fact, as I work in Security at an automotive plant. If it closed, it would have a HUGE ripple effect on a large number of businesses around the city. If this happened to the big 3?8O It would be a catastrophe. So, these idiots need to get rid of their egos and realize that perhaps they should make a little bit less money per cheque to keep their DAMNED JOBS! Cripes!:angryfire:

Sounds like the effects of capitalistic greed.... I still have my job right now, I'm being paid decently, why should I take a pay cut just to save everybody else?

Well for one thing, if you don't, you will end up with no job, because the company you work for will go tits up...... then, you greedy little buggers, you will be in the exact same position as those you couldn't care less about.

Then you have no job, you lose your home, along with thousands of other people, they no longer can buy things and go shopping in various stores....... those stores loose even more business as a result, they lay off their workers..... and so on and so forth.

Until nobody has a job anymore, nobody has any money except those who bailed out in the right time and screwed their workers (Off to Cuba they go to be kings) and then total anarchy occurs......

then some guy will get up on a pedistal somewhere and put the blame on a paticular group, everybody get's all riled up and PO'd, and then we have WWIII......

The end.
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
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The companies also need to realize that they have to stop outsourcing their work to other countries(whether that be overseas or to Mexico). If there is no work to be had in either the US or Canada, who is going to buy the product?

Heck, I called Bell Canada a while back and I got a person located in India. Yeah, that made a whole heck of a lot of sense.:roll:
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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The companies also need to realize that they have to stop outsourcing their work to other countries(whether that be overseas or to Mexico). If there is no work to be had in either the US or Canada, who is going to buy the product?

Heck, I called Bell Canada a while back and I got a person located in India. Yeah, that made a whole heck of a lot of sense.:roll:

No matter what company I try and call here where I live, they're all from India.

And then there's the call centres and phone spammers who call from India...... Damit, I just got off work and I want to eat...... stick your car insurance up yer arse and Pz off eh!

I ain't got a car, and no, she doesn't live here anymore, stop calling!
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
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I love the calls from the "resort" where I "won a free trip". Of course, the message is a recording. Darn! I really wanted to go!:roll::lol:

The economy keeps going like this, we'll all be working with the telephones.;-)
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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I love the calls from the "resort" where I "won a free trip". Of course, the message is a recording. Darn! I really wanted to go!:roll::lol:

The economy keeps going like this, we'll all be working with the telephones.;-)

Yeah it'd be all of us calling those who still have money on their cells, asking if they are satisfied with their cell phone and cell provider and if they would be interested in long distances savings.

Then call them up with a different accent 5 mins later with some of the words switched around.
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
17,545
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Yeah it'd be all of us calling those who still have money on their cells, asking if they are satisfied with their cell phone and cell provider and if they would be interested in long distances savings.

Then call them up with a different accent 5 mins later with some of the words switched around.

Or asking if they had any alms for the poor. The poor being us.;-)
 

Mongul

Electoral Member
Dec 1, 2008
103
3
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and the award for stupidity beyond expectation goes to: Unions?

Its ironic that it was the democrats that crushed the package because of union lobby groups :D
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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Proof that most unions are more interesting in fighting to justify the wages of the union leaders, than in actually protecting the jobs of their workers.

I can't believe that they don't see what's going to happen here.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
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Backwater, Ontario.
Proof that most unions are more interesting in fighting to justify the wages of the union leaders, than in actually protecting the jobs of their workers.

I can't believe that they don't see what's going to happen here.


They won't believe it till their first trip to the food bank, or when the repo guy comes for their car......or house.
Goddam foolish.
I don't know about "most unions", Karrie. I belonged to a good'un that fought for the membership all the time, but these folks seem way too far out there.

Actually the leaders should have seen this coming for all the years the "big 3" were making expensive cars which people were growing more and more reluctant to buy.
That's a LOT of years.

Ripple effects will decimate the US and Canada.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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When you're near the bottom of the food chain, how can anyone miss the million-dollar-plus salaries of those at the top? They're the ones who take corporate jets to hand-out meetings and divvy up the loot in thousand-dollar-an-hour spas. Agreed ... Union greed may have had some to do with the decision. It's easy to blame one when you're the other....
 

Mongul

Electoral Member
Dec 1, 2008
103
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corporate excesses aside, i think you can see why corporate execs are paid far more than union workers?
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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When you're near the bottom of the food chain, how can anyone miss the million-dollar-plus salaries of those at the top? They're the ones who take corporate jets to hand-out meetings and divvy up the loot in thousand-dollar-an-hour spas. Agreed ... Union greed may have had some to do with the decision. It's easy to blame one when you're the other....

True enough wolf.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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See for me, I couldn't give two rat turds about any of the companies.... I never bought any of their cars and I never plan to.

What I Give a rats turd about are the thousands of people who will be out of work for these companies.... I give a rat turd about the companies like the ones in Cape Breton who made parts for those companies and their factories who will now be out of work as well.....

And then the chain reaction from that..... more people looking for work, more companies laying off work or shutting down, more people seeking more expensive government handouts due to the amount of the population in the same position..... the government then becomes strained or completely useless in helping with the situation..... people start becoming desperate.

And we can all use our imaginations for what comes next.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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According to GM, the UAW average wage is $39.68 an hour. That works out to about $2232.00 per week. Go further down that road and you get something over a hundred thousand a year.
The UAW says the average wage is lower but a man with a "High School Degree", (their words) can make much more.....:roll:
No wonder they are going broke.
 

Mongul

Electoral Member
Dec 1, 2008
103
3
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They're supposed to be the smart guys with their fingers on the pulse of what consumers want, right?

yeah thats right, its much more complicated than that but that explaination is sufficient.

all of these corporate execs have skills and qualifications that union workers do not, like how to run a buisness and predicting and anticipating market dynamics. Also, it is ultimately up to stockholders to decide who the CEOs are since they own the company.

perhaps these workers would like to try their hand in entrepeneurship?