Man dies after 34 hours in ER without getting treatment

[Praxius]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...22/wpg_man_dead_er_080922/20080923?hub=Canada

A Winnipeg man waited 34 hours in an emergency room this weekend, but died without getting treatment.

Sources tell CTV News he was homeless.

Last Friday at 3:00 p.m., the man walked into the emergency room at the Health Sciences Centre seeking treatment.

At 1:00 a.m. Sunday morning, staff found the man unconscious.

He was pronounced dead a short time later, after they tried to resuscitate him.

The Winnipeg Regional Health Authority (WRHA) won't release the man's name and they won't say what he came in for.

Unconfirmed reports also claim the man may have been dead for several hours before he was noticed by staff.

Those allegations will now be part of the review looking into the matter.

A critical incident review is underway involving the Health Sciences Centre, its emergency department, and the WRHA.

"It's a concern when something like that happens," WRHA spokesperson Heidi Graham told CTV News. "We want to review and find out, not pre-judge, what happened during those hours. But we are going to get to the bottom and find out what happened."

The WRHA wouldn't go any further, saying just that the review will identify what went wrong, and make recommendations of how things should be changed to prevent this from happening again.

But the Manitoba's Conservative health critic says there's no way it should have happened at all.

"I find this unbelievable. This is a horrible failure of our health care system," Myrna Driedger said. "We have been harping on the NDP government for many many years now, that we have a crisis in our ERs. We have been told numerous times by this government and by this premier that they are fixing it. This is not a fix of our health care system when a person dies in a waiting room."

Seriously, who the hell waits 34 hours in the ER to get treatment?

Oh yeah.... the unwanted homeless people aparently.

This is just fk'n sick. The ER's are absolute crap here in Nova Scotia, but I have never in all my life heard of someone waiting 34 hours for treatment.

I'm actually curious.... what is the average wait time in a Winnipeg Hospital for anybody here who lives there? How long did it take to see a doctor, from the time you entered the hospital?

An Hour?

Three to Four Hours like what I tend to wait here in Nova Scotia?

A day?

Two??

My grilfriend had to goto the ERl when she first came to Canada.... she waited 8 fk'n hours to get a simple perscription, while I usually wait 3-4 hours for something similar to what she had to get.

Is there a prejudice against people who are from another country and the homeless?

 

[lone wolf]

It's not just homeless people. Late nights when the clinics are closed in a one ER town - as big as Sudbury - and a frightening number of people are paying the price for government stupidity (without a family doctor) it's not uncommon to be 10 hours waiting. Medical staff don't prod folks in chairs - and security is busy making sure everyone's paid their five bucks to the parking lot. Housekeeping may find the dead guy. When minutes count....

 

[Tonington]

Well, for starters Praxius, an ER isn't intended to serve as a family doctor or GP, even though that's what happens most often. ER's rank the seriousness of the matter. So if there are people coming in with serious need to see a doctor, they're going to get in faster than someone who needs an Rx filled.

My wait times in NS ER's have been fairly short, because when I've been there it was for broken bones, ruptured ear drums and foreign objects piercing my body.

My GP fills my prescriptions.

But yah, 34 hours is out of the question, really ridiculous...I wonder what the man died from, and what he told the ER nurses at reception...time will tell I guess.

 

[Unforgiven]

You know, an old lady told me the secret to getting some attention in the ER quickly.

Just start shrieking and shrieking at the top of your lungs. Even when they come to quiet you, shriek even more. Using this method, your ER wait time on average drops from 5 to 10 hours, down to about five fricken minutes. Care should be taken though as there is a possibility that the staff may try the old switcheroo where they send a doctor over, who tells you they will be right back. As soon as the Doctor leaves, resume shrieking at top volume.

This will ensure prompt medical attention and perhaps even a nice shot of Valium to soothe your nerves after all that howling. yummy.

And for those of you with a conscience, don't let it bother you. Those people in the waiting room are the same jerks that drive slow in the fast lane, stand in doorways and grocery isles, and yap away at the movie theater on their phone while you're trying to watch the movie you paid through the teeth to see. F uck em!

 

[TenPenny]

If your girlfriend waited 8 hrs for a simple prescription at an ER, then I'd say that's about what it should be. ER isn't for prescriptions, it's for emergencies.

As for this case, I'd be interested to know the facts.

 

[karrie]

In Grande Prairie showing up in the ER with a clinical complaint can see you waiting for upwards of 12 hours. It's called triage... if there are people with more pressing needs, then they get bumped ahead of you, and you wait and wait and wait. That's what an ER is.

Here, I've waited 2 hours to see a doc for my son's broken collar bone. It just wasn't as pressing as the other issues on their plate, even though we felt in a panic about it. His asthma attacks on the other hand, he's seen instantly. And when I carried him into an ER because he's fallen on his head, it was instant then too. Hubby putting a drill through his hand... in immediately. Getting knocked out at 8 months pregnant... in immediately. Car crash... in immediately.

Reading the article, I have to wonder how often the ER there has homeless people come in with a complaint in order to get a warm place to sleep for a while. I wonder if I'd notice the difference between a homeless person who's sleeping and one who's slipped into unconsciousness. I can't even begin to guess what 'their shoes' are like in that particular ER.

 

[lone wolf]

If your girlfriend waited 8 hrs for a simple prescription at an ER, then I'd say that's about what it should be. ER isn't for prescriptions, it's for emergencies.

As for this case, I'd be interested to know the facts.

Obviously you have a family doctor. ER is where I have to go to get scripts filled - even heart meds! The clinics don't know me. Anyone can walk in and say they need drugs. I'm also one of those people too patient for my own good....

 

[Praxius]

Well, for starters Praxius, an ER isn't intended to serve as a family doctor or GP, even though that's what happens most often. ER's rank the seriousness of the matter. So if there are people coming in with serious need to see a doctor, they're going to get in faster than someone who needs an Rx filled.

I seen the people waiting the night both I and my girlfriend had waited, and their conditions were not at all anymore serious (I have good ears) and they all waited just as long, if not longer.... I'm not talking about being someone special who should go ahead of others, I'm talking about the BS people go through when they get there.

And I do have a family doctor..... now.

But my situation is irrelevent as it was a mere example. The main focus, is clearly that this homeless guy went to the ER for something serious.... if it wasn't serious, he wouldn't be dead now would he?

Someone dropped the ball on this one, and I wonder why, that is all.

My wait times in NS ER's have been fairly short, because when I've been there it was for broken bones, ruptured ear drums and foreign objects piercing my body.

My GP fills my prescriptions.

Well my girlfriend moving from Australia, didn't have the luxury and had no other choice.

As it goes for me, I had what I figured was a broken wrist from work..... I waited for god know how fk'n long to get anybody to see how I was doing. Eventually I got pissed off and left and decided to let the god damn thing heal on its own, much like my toe.

What kind of a fk'n system is that where people simply walk away from something their damn tax dollars paid for? (Not venting at you, just asking in frustration about the system)

But yah, 34 hours is out of the question, really ridiculous...I wonder what the man died from, and what he told the ER nurses at reception...time will tell I guess.

I'm curious as well.

 

[Walter]

Apparently he didn't make himself known to the reception desk; the workers just thought he was coming in to get warm. Poop happens.

 

[karrie]

As it goes for me, I had what I figured was a broken wrist from work..... I waited for god know how fk'n long to get anybody to see how I was doing. Eventually I got pissed off and left and decided to let the god damn thing heal on its own, much like my toe.

What kind of a fk'n system is that where people simply walk away from something their damn tax dollars paid for? (Not venting at you, just asking in frustration about the system)

I don't think that's a flaw in the system... that's a flaw in our own perceptions. A broken wrist is probably less emergent than a chest cold when it comes right down to it. Yeah, it hurts like a bitch and it does eventually need attention, but, you're not likely to die of it.... especially if it was an injured to a degree that you were willing to walk away without being seen, and remained unsure if there was actually a break. I know that to you a broken wrist seems like a huge injury, and severe pain. But to an emergency room worker, it's pretty minor and not worth checking up on you over, let alone hurrying you in if things are already busy.

There have been times we've been rushed in... loss of consciousness, severe bleeding, and impaired ability to breathe. There are times we haven't been rushed in, and a broken bone was one of those times.

 

[tracy]

I have a hard time blaming them without knowing what was going on. ERs unfortunately have had to take the brunt of our lack of resources and our lack of common sense for years and years. MANY ER visits could be resolved through an appointment with a GP (but who wants to wait a week for an appointment if they have a GP) or a walk in clinic. Emergency rooms were never created to be used the way they are today. So, yeah, there will be a long wait. If you wait hours and live to complain about it, I can't say they were wrong to make you wait. It obviously wasn't emergent and they are after all pretty upfront about their purpose (emergency is in the name of the place for a reason).

I hope this man wasn't misdiagnosed or ignored because he was homeless. If he was, that's tragic. But, I'll wait to hear the rest of the story before assuming that because I know it's entirely possible he just came in to get warm and the staff allowed it.

 

[lone wolf]

I have a hard time blaming them without knowing what was going on. ERs unfortunately have had to take the brunt of our lack of resources and our lack of common sense for years and years. MANY ER visits could be resolved through an appointment with a GP (but who wants to wait a week for an appointment if they have a GP) or a walk in clinic. Emergency rooms were never created to be used the way they are today. So, yeah, there will be a long wait. If you wait hours and live to complain about it, I can't say they were wrong to make you wait. It obviously wasn't emergent and they are after all pretty upfront about their purpose (emergency is in the name of the place for a reason).

I hope this man wasn't misdiagnosed or ignored because he was homeless. If he was, that's tragic. But, I'll wait to hear the rest of the story before assuming that because I know it's entirely possible he just came in to get warm and the staff allowed it.

That's all fine and dandy for you in the land of milk, honey and Canadian doctors. WE have a shortage. They all went where the money is. If you happen to be one of the great many without a GP who need medical care in Canada now, you get second-rate care at a walk-in clinic ... or in ER.

 

[B00Mer]

This is very sad. God bless this poor man and any family he may have.

I hope that Hospitals take a more serious look at their admitting procedures after this incident...

 

[unclepercy]

I had an emergency situation in May, and it took me less than 2 minutes to see the dr. Then, there was the waiting around for the x-ray, the blood test, etc. I was in and out in 4 hours with prescription in hand for a mere $5,000. I am still paying off "my share."

My husband's current bout with cancer will cost about $300,000, and our share will run between $14,000 and $16,000. I've been through this before.

Uncle

 

[Colpy]

I had an emergency situation in May, and it took me less than 2 minutes to see the dr. Then, there was the waiting around for the x-ray, the blood test, etc. I was in and out in 4 hours with prescription in hand for a mere $5,000. I am still paying off "my share."

My husband's current bout with cancer will cost about $300,000, and our share will run between $14,000 and $16,000. I've been through this before.

Uncle

I had a heart attack in April of 2007. in the hospital 3 weeks, had a qyadruple bypass, much post-op care, and it cost me nada, nil. That is the up side of socialized medicine.....care is good and free if you have a serious problem. the downside? Try and find a family doctor.....at least here in NB.....and WAIT to see any specialist or to have elective surgery.....

 

[In Between Man]

I had a heart attack in April of 2007. in the hospital 3 weeks, had a qyadruple bypass, much post-op care, and it cost me nada, nil. That is the up side of socialized medicine.....care is good and free if you have a serious problem. the downside? Try and find a family doctor.....at least here in NB.....and WAIT to see any specialist or to have elective surgery.....

It's the exact same scenario over here on the west coast. Although I've never bothered looking for a family doctor. There are a ton of walk-in clinics around here. Pretty easy to get a prescription or get a list of specialists to call. Another thing over here is that sometimes a semi-serious injury like a broken wrist or animal bite could net you a long wait in the emergency room. I've waited 2.5 hours just to get a quick brace for a busted finger!!!

 

[tracy]

That's all fine and dandy for you in the land of milk, honey and Canadian doctors. WE have a shortage. They all went where the money is. If you happen to be one of the great many without a GP who need medical care in Canada now, you get second-rate care at a walk-in clinic ... or in ER.

I was one of the many without a GP for years (including the last 4 down here, I just got a GP a few months ago). I went to walk in clinics. It wasn't ideal, but it is the place that is meant for people like me without a GP. If you go to the same clinic, they keep your records on file and it speeds things up a bit.

It isn't fair to blame the emergency room for a long wait when people are using it for a need it was never designed to meet.

 

[lone wolf]

In Ontario, a specialist won't see you unless you are referred by a GP - and a clinic doc referral isn't forever.

 

[Scott Free]

The OP is strange on a few levels.

1) Homeless people are notorious for being unstable and unpredictable. Nothing is being said about where he was found, why (or if) he was seeking help the whole time or who he talked to before dying. Was he in contact with the staff the whole time or did he wander off to be found unconscious later?

2) He came in at 3:00 pm for treatment: why didn't he get it? The story doesn't say. Was he drunk? Too high on meth? Being loud and abusive? Or was the staff too busy painting their toenails as is being implied?

3) By 1:00 am he was unconscious then pronounced dead but did he die from lack of treatment or was he run over by an ambulance? Maybe he passed out with his head between electric doors opening and closing on him all night?

4) "The Manitoba's conservative health critic" what is that!?!?! Is that an MLA in waiting? He claims this should never have happened... maybe he should find out what "this" is before saying it shouldn't have happened. Most people die in hospitals - it's really not that uncommon.

5) "I find this unbelievable. This is a horrible failure of our health care system," Myrna Driedger said. "We have been harping on the NDP government for many many years now, that we have a crisis in our ERs. We have been told numerous times by this government and by this premier that they are fixing it. This is not a fix of our health care system when a person dies in a waiting room."

I didn't see in the story where it said the NDP government or the premier were even at the hospital? Exactly what medical expertise do they have anyway? Maybe all those politicians standing around is why the staff didn't see the homeless guy, or maybe he was hiding in a box so the CIA wouldn't find him?

This appears to be a case of a reporter pulling a story out of his/her @ss and trying to give it significance and finding a willing participant in their created narrative from an unnamed conservative "health critic" (a title obviously meant to look important but in reality means nothing).

This is a prime example of why I don't like the popular media.

 

[tracy]

In Ontario, a specialist won't see you unless you are referred by a GP - and a clinic doc referral isn't forever.

No doc referral is forever.