You'll probably be SHOCKED, SHOCKED I tell you, to learn I voted Green Party last election.
You've obiously already made up your mind about what happened at Haditha. That's interesting, because I only have access to public information, and it's clear that it's not a cut and dry case. There is lots of controversy about just what really happened, and lots of holes in the original story. I don't have access to a magic crystal ball, and I wasn't there, so I'm in no position to make conclusions beyond what I read about it. And that's highly inconclusive.
Maybe more info will be released when all is said and done with the trials. We'll see.
1) Marine Lance Corp Miguel Terrazas dies in attack on US convoy.
2) US military initially says bomb also killed 15 Iraqi civilians.
3) Eight insurgents killed after attacking convoy. US later says the 15 civilians were not killed by bomb, but shot accidentally in battle.
1) Marine Lance Corp Miguel Terrazas dies in bomb attack on convoy of four Humvees. Troops then "go on rampage".
2) At roadblock, four students and taxi driver killed.
3) Eight people killed in one of three houses.
4) Seven killed in a second house.
5) Four brothers put in wardrobe and shot dead in a third house.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5033648.stm (external - login to view)
I said "people like you" JTF. The power of people like you comes from your vast numbers. A majority of people like JTF are easily manipulated. That's how war criminals like Bush get re-elected. Its why Harper will win a majority in this election. Its why soldiers the soldiers responsible for the Haditha can get away with murder. Selective outrage and short memories.
The US military has lied since the beginning about this incident and changed their story several times to fit the evidence. I find the final marine version difficult to believe.
Now putting aside whether you are right or wrong....
Can you not see the problem in that statement..
What proof do either sides have (not having been there) other than their personal opinions about how the world works and the nature of people to believe that they AREN'T being brainwashed.
I fully admit my knowledge of the world is a veritable wikipedia, I look at many sources but that doesn't mean any of them are right, or that the one unpopular viewpoint isn't the correct one.
How do you know YOU aren't the easily manipulated large group of people EAO?
As the numbers like JTF and you are about equal and it flips back and forth in the government.
Left Right Left Right
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, June 4, 2006; A01
At 5 p.m. Nov. 19, near the end of one of the most violent days the Marine Corps had experienced in the Upper Euphrates Valley, a call went out for trucks to collect the bodies of 24 Iraqi civilians.
The unit that arrived in the farming town of Haditha found babies, women and children shot in the head and chest. An old man in a wheelchair had been shot nine times. A group of girls, ages 1 to 14, lay dead. Everyone had been killed by gunfire, according to death certificates issued later.
The next day, Capt. Jeffrey S. Pool, a Marine spokesman in Iraq, released a terse statement: Fifteen Iraqis "were killed yesterday from the blast of a roadside bomb in Haditha. Immediately after the bombing, gunmen attacked the convoy with small arms fire. Iraqi army soldiers and Marines returned fire, killing eight insurgents and wounding another."
Despite what Marine witnesses saw when they arrived, that official version has been allowed to stand for six months.
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...300710_pf.html (external - login to view)
The implication is that since this person is too old to be a student, his video evidence must be fake
The original reports claimed the Iraqi casualties were killed by the roadside blast:
Body exhumation is forbidden by Islamic law
, so the photographic evidence and the death certificates are all the evidence of cause of death that exists.
BTW, where are the captured insurgent weapons? The marines claim they shot insurgents. Where are their weapons?
The main evidence remains the video and photos of the dead bodies and the death certificates which contradict the original reports files by the marines.
November 20, 2005Quote has been trimmed
"In a statement, the US Army has said that a US Marine was killed when an explosive charge went off in the city of Hadithah. Additionally, eight gunmen were killed in clashes with the US troops. Sources in the city said that the US troops bombarded four houses, killing 31 Iraqis, and that many dead bodies are strewn on the streets. Meanwhile, the US Army statement said that 15 Iraqis were killed in an explosion that targeted a US patrol in the city."
[This is immediately followed by a live telephone interview with "journalist" Walid Khalid in Baghdad conducted by anchorperson Layla al-Shayib in the Doha studios. When queried about the Hadithah incidents, Khalid says: "Yesterday evening, an explosive charge went off under a US Marines vehicle in the Al-Subhani area, destroying it completely. Half an hour later, the US reaction was violent. US aircraft bombarded four houses near the scene of the incident, causing the immediate death of five Iraqis. Afterward, the US troops stormed three adjacent houses where three families were living near the scene of the explosion. Medical sources and eyewitnesses close to these families affirmed that the US troops, along with the Iraqi Army, executed 21 persons; that is, three families, including nine children and boys, seven women, and three elderly people.
"Furthermore, the US troops threw their dead bodies onto the street and in the courtyards of the houses....
How Haditha Came to LightQuote has been trimmed
By Jeffrey Kluger Sunday, Jun. 04, 2006
The Haditha killings occurred last November, but it wasn't until January that TIME first heard whispers about them. The initial account of the incident was published in March in the magazine and on TIME.com
The manner in which TIME got the story and the painstaking way the facts revealed themselves illustrate the challenges of trying to cover a dangerous, deadly conflict where the truth isn't always what it appears to be.
If the Marines are indeed guilty of an atrocity, they had the ill fortune to have committed their crime in the worst possible place: outside the front door of a budding Iraqi journalist and human-rights activist. Taher Thabet, 43, was at home in Haditha on the morning of Nov. 19 when around 7:15 he heard the detonation of the roadside bomb that struck a Marine humvee, killing the driver, Lance Corporal Miguel Terrazas, 20. The blast shattered Thabet's windows. He ran outside in time to see Marines from three other humvees springing from their vehicles and heading for four homes on either side of the road. "They went into one house. I heard gunfire, explosions and screams," he told TIME in an interview in Baghdad last month. "Then they came out and went into another. I could only stand and watch."
The next morning, Thabet--who...
That Thabet would exagerate his credentials or allow people to believe he is young, daring and handsome doesn't prove his video was doctored.
Your reference is not objective and spins the facts to make it sound like delays in breaking this story in US, Thabet's embellishments of his qualifications prove the Haditha massacre didn't happen.
Its a fact that no one has proven the Haditha video was manufactured, and you can bet its been scrutinized closely.
The initial US military version of events was a deliberate attempt to hide this atrocity. Subsequent versions are a whitewash of what happened. The legal technicality which ended the trial was probably deliberate. The prosecution could try the case again, but likely they won't, because they have no interest in justice when it comes to US soldiers committing crimes in Iraq.
You know what, I shouldn't post a counter version of events because there is no evidence to support either viewpoint.
No one knows what happened, including Lynch.
...The doctors in Nassiriya say they provided the best treatment they could for Lynch in the midst of war. She was assigned the only specialist bed in the hospital, and one of only two nurses on the floor. "I was like a mother to her and she was like a daughter,"says Khalida Shinah.Quote has been trimmed
"We gave her three bottles of blood, two of them from the medical staff because there was no blood at this time,"said Dr Harith al-Houssona, who looked after her throughout her ordeal. "I examined her, I saw she had a broken arm, a broken thigh and a dislocated ankle. Then I did another examination. There was no [sign of] shooting, no bullet inside her body, no stab wound - only RTA, road traffic accident," he recalled. "They want to distort the picture. I don't know why they think there is some benefit in saying she has a bullet injury."
The doctors told us that the day before the special forces swooped on the hospital the Iraqi military had fled. Hassam Hamoud, a waiter at a local restaurant, said he saw the American advance party land in the town. He said the team's Arabic interpreter asked him where the hospital was. "He asked: 'Are there any Fedayeen over there?' and I said, 'No'." All the same, the next day "America's finest warriors" descended on the building.
"We heard the noise of helicopters," says Dr Anmar Uday. He says that they must have known there would be no resistance. "We were surprised. Why do this? There was no...