More America Bashing..

JBeee

Time Out
Jun 1, 2007
1,826
52
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God Is Not Responsible for Sins in Iraq
by Jacob G. Hornberger
A reader advised me that in my blog yesterday, I had misinterpreted Sarah Palin’s statement to the Assembly of God Church in Alaska. The reader said that Palin wasn’t actually saying that the Iraq invasion and occupation were part of God’s plan but instead was simply requesting people to pray that the operation is part of God’s plan.
The reader might have a point, but isn’t it a distinction without a difference? Praying that the commission of sin is part of some plan of God is ludicrous. God doesn’t have plans that involve people in the commission of sin. Sinners, not God, are responsible for their sins.
The simple, undeniable truth remains: The U.S. government did not have the right to attack a country that had not attacked the United States or even threatened to do so. Therefore, the CIA and the troops did not have the right to kill any Iraqi, much less a million of them. Hoping and praying that such killings are part of some plan of God is ridiculous. Again, God does not have plans that involve people in the violation of His sacred commandments.
The problem is that all too many religious types in America have come to believe that the U.S. government is special. They honestly believe that it operates as an agent of God. It is not. Instead, the government is nothing more than a bunch of ordinary Americans, some of whom are religious, and some of whom are engaged in wrongful behavior.
To demonstrate how many religious types in America have elevated the U.S. government to holy status, consider the following scenario:
Suppose the Russia government, rather than the U.S. government, had done everything to the Iraqi people that the U.S. government has done.
Suppose it had been the Russians who had delivered weapons of mass destruction to Saddam Hussein.
Suppose it had been the Russians who had intentionally destroyed Iraq’s water-treatment plants with the intent of spreading illnesses among the Iraqi people.
Suppose it had been the Russians who had enforced a brutal regime of sanctions against the Iraqi people for more than a decade, contributing to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children.
Suppose it had been the Russian ambassador to the United Nations who had proclaimed that the deaths of half-a-million Iraqi children from the sanctions had been “worth it.”
Suppose it had been the Russians who had invaded and occupied Iraq, killing and maiming hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, causing millions more to go into exile, and sending the entire nation into conflict and chaos.
Suppose it had been the Russians who had murdered, tortured, and sexually abused Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison.
Suppose it had been the Russians who had proclaimed that they had done it all for the benefit of the Iraqi people, not for the sake of installing a Russian-approved puppet into power.
What would have been the reaction of many U.S. Christians? Would they be claiming or praying that the Russian government was operating in accordance with God’s plan? No, they would be screaming like banshees, condemning what the Russians had done, and rightfully so. After all, look at how they’ve reacted to the Russian invasion of Georgia, where the death and destruction is miniscule compared to what the U.S. government has done in Iraq.

Yet, since it is the U.S. government that has done all these things, it’s all okay because everything the U.S. government does to foreigners is holy given its exalted position as God’s agent on earth.

No Christian should ever claim or pray that the commission of sin is part of God’s plan. When someone is involved in the commission of sin, there is but one proper course of action: Stop it. The proper prayer after sin is a plea for forgiveness, after genuine confession and repentance. That is what should be happening with respect to Iraq.
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
25
38
Toronto
Yes, bush sinned when he committed war crimes and killed innocent people in Iraq... What ticks me off is the yanks always saying 'God bless america' as though no other countries matter.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
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The Evil Empire
Yes, bush sinned when he committed war crimes and killed innocent people in Iraq... What ticks me off is the yanks always saying 'God bless america' as though no other countries matter.

Well it is obvious us yanks don't matter to you so why on earth should we give a ****?
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
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Minnesota: Gopher State
"The U.S. government did not have the right to attack a country that had not attacked the United States or even threatened to do so."

I'm just a little bit confused -- how is it more "America bashing" to point that out??
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Well it is obvious us yanks don't matter to you so why on earth should we give a ****?
It's not that exactly, you leave it to others to point out your true intentions. A less conniving nation would say it and then do it without all the bull****.
Sad fact that once you said it, the other nations would probably do alot to make sure that it never happened.

You do know that their favorite victims are US citizens right?
 

missile

House Member
Dec 1, 2004
4,846
17
38
Saint John N.B.
What I dislike is a God,who must be so needy and egotistical, that he needs constant prayers to bolster his selfworth. My version of a God would be beyond that.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
People believe in God. If God is with us, who could be against us? Simple and difficult to argue against without saying that God isn't with us. And should someone say that, well they just aren't going to get another invite to any of the parties and social engagements so there.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
99
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
God Is Not Responsible for Sins in Iraq
by Jacob G. Hornberger
A reader advised me that in my blog yesterday, I had misinterpreted Sarah Palin’s statement to the Assembly of God Church in Alaska. The reader said that Palin wasn’t actually saying that the Iraq invasion and occupation were part of God’s plan but instead was simply requesting people to pray that the operation is part of God’s plan.

What a dumbass suck bucket..... don't forget, this is all part of Bush's Holy Crusade against "Evil Doers" OOooooo......

Great, another nut job has a chance to be in power..... frig and I just got past the first paragraph.... this is going to be a fun read, I can already tell. :-?

The reader might have a point, but isn’t it a distinction without a difference?

Yup...

Praying that the commission of sin is part of some plan of God is ludicrous. God doesn’t have plans that involve people in the commission of sin. Sinners, not God, are responsible for their sins.

So they say.

The simple, undeniable truth remains: The U.S. government did not have the right to attack a country that had not attacked the United States or even threatened to do so.

True

Therefore, the CIA and the troops did not have the right to kill any Iraqi, much less a million of them. Hoping and praying that such killings are part of some plan of God is ridiculous. Again, God does not have plans that involve people in the violation of His sacred commandments.

True.... you can not justify the killing of civilians and those defending their nation as some act of God or the plan of God..... and praying that it is his plan isn't a damn excuse for it.

Instead of praying that it's his plan, perhaps they should pray they God doesn't squish them like ants for their actions......

Then again, maybe all these tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes, droughts, forest fires and the like are expressions by God, saying that he's pissed royally at the US.

The problem is that all too many religious types in America have come to believe that the U.S. government is special. They honestly believe that it operates as an agent of God. It is not. Instead, the government is nothing more than a bunch of ordinary Americans, some of whom are religious, and some of whom are engaged in wrongful behavior.

True

To demonstrate how many religious types in America have elevated the U.S. government to holy status, consider the following scenario:
Suppose the Russia government, rather than the U.S. government, had done everything to the Iraqi people that the U.S. government has done.
Suppose it had been the Russians who had delivered weapons of mass destruction to Saddam Hussein.
Suppose it had been the Russians who had intentionally destroyed Iraq’s water-treatment plants with the intent of spreading illnesses among the Iraqi people.
Suppose it had been the Russians who had enforced a brutal regime of sanctions against the Iraqi people for more than a decade, contributing to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children.
Suppose it had been the Russian ambassador to the United Nations who had proclaimed that the deaths of half-a-million Iraqi children from the sanctions had been “worth it.”
Suppose it had been the Russians who had invaded and occupied Iraq, killing and maiming hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, causing millions more to go into exile, and sending the entire nation into conflict and chaos.
Suppose it had been the Russians who had murdered, tortured, and sexually abused Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison.
Suppose it had been the Russians who had proclaimed that they had done it all for the benefit of the Iraqi people, not for the sake of installing a Russian-approved puppet into power.
What would have been the reaction of many U.S. Christians? Would they be claiming or praying that the Russian government was operating in accordance with God’s plan? No, they would be screaming like banshees, condemning what the Russians had done, and rightfully so. After all, look at how they’ve reacted to the Russian invasion of Georgia, where the death and destruction is miniscule compared to what the U.S. government has done in Iraq.

Correction... Russian didn't invade.... they retaliated. But then again, that depends on who you ask I suppose, and whether or not you believe Georgia started this situation or Russia did.

Yet, since it is the U.S. government that has done all these things, it’s all okay because everything the U.S. government does to foreigners is holy given its exalted position as God’s agent on earth.

Psssh..... :roll:

No Christian should ever claim or pray that the commission of sin is part of God’s plan. When someone is involved in the commission of sin, there is but one proper course of action: Stop it. The proper prayer after sin is a plea for forgiveness, after genuine confession and repentance. That is what should be happening with respect to Iraq.

This just goes to show just how "Experienced" Palin really is, esspecially when it comes to shooting off her mouth and her dumbass interpretation of Christianity.

I followed the faith for a good chunk of my life, and although I no longer follow it nor do I believe in it anymore, I seem to know much more about the faith then this moron Palin does, and it's due to nutfuks like her that made me leave the faith to begin with.

I can not associate myself with people like her, or I am only supporting people like her, so I left to find my own path of what lies beyond and why we are here. People like her have screwed this world up with their own self-serviing perspectives of what some God wants them to do.

And if God really does exist, I hope he keeps up with the natural disasters that are afflicting the US in the last number of years..... and with any luck, the whole nation will be swallowed into the ocean, never to be seen again, except as a tourist spot for scuba divers.

Whether or not God exists, I do believe in a certain level of Karma, and it's working it's magic on them, that is for sure...... those in the US might be blind to it.... but they won't be soon enough.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
My Gram said "God bless you" when I sneezed.... Is that a prayer that I'll be alright?

I believe that had to do with older times when people thought that when you sneezed, your soul was trying to escape, so they said "God Bless You" for your soul to stay within your body.

Although it has been a few years since I looked up that old saying.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
Well it is obvious us yanks don't matter to you so why on earth should we give a ****?

Oh you guys do matter, don't worry about that..... you matter to us and everybody else in the world, because you guys keep killing us, both directly and indirectly...... you matter... just not in the way you would like.

Yup... keep that attitude up.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
People believe in God.

Some do. And many of those who do, don't all believe in the same God and/or principles.

If God is with us, who could be against us?

Usually those shooting at you.

Simple and difficult to argue against without saying that God isn't with us. And should someone say that, well they just aren't going to get another invite to any of the parties and social engagements so there.

Oh well..... why would I want to be surrounded by a bunch of ignorant bible thumpers?

*Pow pow.... guns empty on the thread, Exit the Prax* :twisted:
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
He does make a point as it applies to trying to hold God on our side in conflicts (be they personal, or governmental), but loses me on one huge assertion.

1. The repeated us of the word sin. First off, if you're going to claim that warring in the name of God is a sin, based on the commandments written down in the Bible, then, you also must read the assorted passages where, yep, people fought wars with the 'blessing' of God.

But, I agree that God should just be left the heck out of it. As is Hornberger's normal stance, that religion and government be separate. It strikes me as kind of funny for someone who speaks out against God being brought into government, to then launch a tyrade attempting to dictate HOW they should pray properly. But I digress... it does show his point... that he feels the American government should be apologizing for this war.

I guess that would be the crux of the issue up for debate, since the rest is kind of unprovable.

"God's on my side, btw."
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
4,600
100
63
side note:

There are many reasons why every country had a right to invade Iraq. But no one cares about Genocide,

So instead they invented a reason that would sell well, and they used it.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
But, I agree that God should just be left the heck out of it. As is Hornberger's normal stance, that religion and government be separate. It strikes me as kind of funny for someone who speaks out against God being brought into government, to then launch a tyrade attempting to dictate HOW they should pray properly. But I digress... it does show his point... that he feels the American government should be apologizing for this war.

One thing I would like to add to this, which you sort of pointed on, was the removal of church and state, which is how it should be...... and religion shouldn't be a justification for any war as I see it.

But on top of that, some of the additional contradictions I see, is that Palin brags on and on about how Christian she is, and that she has Christian values, and that she wants to ban abortion, throw Creationism into the classrooms, shuns condoms and birth control, promotes marriage before sex..... and now she's saying the Iraq war was God's plan..... or that we all pray that it was God's plan..... whatever......

..... but at the same time, she tells the democrats to keep religion and her family out of the debate.

The family thing I can get.... .but when she's shoving her "More Reightious Then Thou" attitude into everybody's face and trying to impose her religious views onto just about everything...... how the hell is the other side supposed to leave those things out of the debate?

And see that's the ticket right there..... she tells Obama and everybody else that her family and her religious views are all off limits, but then uses those things to further propel her agenda..... meanwhile the other side of the argument isn't allowed to challenge it.... therefore it all passes by without question.

Does anybody else see how screwed up this is, or is it just me?