The only conspiracies are between the people who put it together and the cover-up to duck blame because it happened on somebody's watch.
The total Victim's compensation fund is $ 4.85 billion dollars. It would stand to reason that they couldn't give families of just four victims $28.5 million dollars, leaving the rest of the families to get something less than that. The lawyers were both stupid and greedy.
Wolf, what exactly are you saying? My English seems to have a gap somehow!
Do you mean there was a faked 9/11, and it was covered up, and those two parties conspired together in order to avoid blame? So, blame was laid on what? Unfortunate circumstances? Nobody's fault?
I'll be back in a minute! Got to do some weight-lifting etc. first.
A Manhattan federal judge tossed out $28.5 million in settlements for the families of four 9/11 victims on Thursday after blasting their lawyers as greedy.
Judge Alvin Hellerstein slammed the Baltimore law firm of Azrael, Gann & Franz for demanding a 25% cut - totaling $7.1 million - from four settlements negotiated on behalf of families whose loved ones died when American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into -- on Sept. 11, 2001.
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So..., that means there were real people in that plane! Huh, so much for the conspiracy theory!
Nooo.... 9/11 happened.
It would be awful stupid to deny it.
The hijackers were real (falsely documented and not the flight school wash-outs portrayed)
That part WAS planned.
Where the cover-up comes in is in the inevitable finger-pointing and story-making people who've fallen asleep on guard duty resort to in order to avoid reprimand.
When they finally wised up and flamed that last jet at Shanksville,
That's where the story-making machine went into gear.
America needed heroes - to save face.
There certainly are people at fault -
but it's not so much at the big planned out conspiracy level on the American side as it was stupidity combined with a colossal cluster f**ked reaction.
The Cold War was over. America thought it was bulletproof. It wasn't.
Then why is it questioned, and tons of so called "evidence" being presented?
Oh ... I have questions too - like why did every one of those planes disappear from radar then re-appear without transponder data? That leaves room for another plane to substitute for the original flight. Perhaps it was one of those red herrings designed to get the American public thinking. That makes people doubt and creates divisiveness. Authority hates being questioned.
Well, then I am stupid! But I am not alone... perhaps millions of others around the world don't believe it was done by real hijackers. So much points to the US organized it and then played dumb.
It's hard to ignore an empty piece of real estate. I can't believe anyone could keep a secret that long. Americans (and this isn't intended as a jab) just don't come that well disciplined. Conscience alone would kill the weakest of them, yet we have heard of very few suicides among the halls of power.
They were from Saudi Arabia, but didn't go to that flight school in the States? Why then say they did go to that flight school? What purpose did that lie serve?
Their passports indicate they were Saudi. Were the Mossad who used forged Canadian documents Canadian? Pickpocket, forgery and identity theft are not new trades. The flight school part was most likely another red herring. From experience, I know NOBODY can be that bad and still walk upright.
The flight school part? Planned by whom? and why?
The flight school makes everyone who wants to learn to fly one more person to be watched. If you're overloading yourself watching innocent people, your back's going unwatched for when it happens again.
You mean the system that should have detected the hijacked planes going off course? Or the airlines that didn't screen the Arab hijackers?
I mean a system that was repeatedly warned this attack was going to happen - and just as repeatedly the warnings went unheeded. Air traffic control DID detect the planes going off their respective courses. The reports went ignored - even though Air Defense was made aware this was not part of the exercise. This was real world. Airlines didn't have to screen anyone with dark complexion and a cheesy moustache. Everyone was under the belief it can't happen here.
Oh, they, the US air defense or military brought that plane down? Not the passengers wrestling with the hijackers? I see. They never noticed the other three planes were going off course. So then they managed to bring the last one down, but didn't want to admit they had been sleeping until then?
Flight 93 was still flying a relatively straight course a half hour after FAA ordered all commercial flights to land. That, alone, made it a clear target. I'm convinced it was brought down by A2A. That accounts for engine separation, a debris trail and why the aircraft is reported by witnesses to have gone in inverted and in flames. The Air Force was justified in shooting, considering what had already happened. To reveal 93 was brought down, though, opened the door to questions of why those other planes got through - especially after WTC1 was hit
Stories about the hijackers attending flight school, the air force having a maneuver and that could have distracted the air and flight controllers?
NORAD exercises are standard drill. You can go from drill to real world situations in minutes. That's why you drill. There is always an "on alert" contingent. Denial that ATC reported the situation and the distraction story were good cover-ups for complacency.
What heroes? Giuliano? Ha, he was no hero! The daring and dedicated fire fighters were heroes.
The heroes they created were the passengers who fought back on Flight 93. I can't prove "let's roll" and a fight for control didn't happen, but it's great inspiration to get Americans fired up to avenge them.
Yes, the ones who should have noticed the planes going the wrong way and notify the interception jets. Maybe that was done, but the pilots of those jets were at home or didn't react or thought it wasn't serious.
Them ... and the FBI and CIA people who ignored warnings.
Please, give me examples so I understand clearly what you mean. For instance, what stupidity?
The stupidity is the arrogance in believing your way is the right way for everybody. It's the ignorance that fails to see festering resent among people who want to retain their own pride and not become American copies. It's foreign policies that give and give and give, then expect favour in return. That's not charity.... It's date rape.
Yes, that I can understand. So, real Arab hijackers, well experienced pilots, came over on orders from Bin Laden? Bin Laden was somehow mad at the US, the Americans, for their interference in Afghanistan, Kuweit/Iraq? Is that it? Or for making Israel big and strong?
I don't know if it was Bin Laden or Bin Laden became the face America painted on the bad guy for Hollywood clarity. Israel is only part of the problem. The Arab world detests intruders. Jewish people have always lived among them. Zionist Israel wasn't invited. The Arab world sees America favouring Israel. The Arab (Muslim) world believes Christians still resent losing the Crusades. Presidencies who defer to the rabid Christian right seem to confirm the belief. That all gets to be mixed into the propaganda that extremists use to justify their own righteousness. American "intelligence" missed all that for they don't think in terms of "before the USA existed".
Sorry, Wolf, I haven't participated in those Tower-Discussions and probably missed the theory you have come to. I don't want to stress nor bore you, but perhaps you could in a few sentences explain to me what you recognize as proof it wasn't staged by the US government
Thanks, Wolf
Thank you, Wolf, for your patience explaining the issues to me. SomehowI had understood you knew the real wire pullers behind the events.
My own logic has been pondering the fact why have four planes on a rampage of destruction just to have a reason to go into Afghanistan and to start the worldwide fight against terrorism, if one plane would have done the trick?
I have to come back to this later... have too much distraction right now.
Ohhh ... if I knew the real wire pullers, I'd be living a LOT higher off the hog than I am right now. Thanks for the vote of confidence...
How would you be living higher off the hog? Not saying something, lw?
I am a writer. They would be paying a handsome price to buy my silence (if they didn't just off me, I guess)
Nooo.... 9/11 happened. It would be awful stupid to deny it. The hijackers were real (falsely documented and not the flight school wash-outs portrayed) That part WAS planned.
Where the cover-up comes in is in the inevitable finger-pointing and story-making people who've fallen asleep on guard duty resort to in order to avoid reprimand. When they finally wised up and flamed that last jet at Shanksville, the delay made it obvious the whole system had grown too confident, fat and lazy. That's where the story-making machine went into gear. America needed heroes - to save face.
There certainly are people at fault - but it's not so much at the big planned out conspiracy level on the American side as it was stupidity combined with a collossal cluster f**ked reaction. The Cold War was over. America thought it was bulletproof. It wasn't.
Many people are convinced that George W. Bush knew what was going to happen and purposely allowed it to happen, so he and his neo-conservative buddies could have the “new Pearl Harbor” they needed to justify their wars against Afghanistan and Iraq. Others go further. They are absolutely sure Cheney and company actually planned and carried out the attack
A blueprint for the creation of a global Pax Americana was drawn up for Dick Cheney (now vice-president), Donald Rumsfeld (defence secretary), Paul Wolfowitz (Rumsfeld's deputy), Jeb Bush (George Bush's younger brother) and Lewis Libby (Cheney's chief of staff). The document, entitled Rebuilding America's Defences, was written in September 2000 by the neoconservative think tank
The information provided by European intelligence services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer possible for either the CIA or FBI to assert a defence of incompetence.
The conclusion of all this analysis must surely be that the "global war on terrorism" has the hallmarks of a political myth propagated to pave the way for a wholly different agenda - the US goal of world hegemony, built around securing by force command over the oil supplies required to drive the whole project.
...that the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) have covered up "catastrophic failures" that left the nation vulnerable during the Sept. 11 hijackings. "For almost three years now, NORAD officials and FAA officials have been able to hide their -- that left this country defenseless during two of the worst hours in our history,"
"NORAD officials lied to the American people, they lied to Congress and they lied to your 9/11 commission to create a false impression of competence, communication and protection of the American people."
Hi, Wolf;
I got some material from educated and known people. I'm sure you have read the same article. What I wonder is how you can be so sure it was not an inside job!
Here is a statement from Dr. Robert M. Bowman, head of advanced space programs for the Department of Defense: If Bush knew about it, and didn't stop it, then he was in on it! He sanctioned it! Hence an inside job.
Here is another person of influence, Michael Meacher, UK Minister of Environment.Do you have any doubt, Wolf, that it is not so? Do you still think America was caught unawares?
Now, here is a guy who shares your view: U.S. Senator Mark Dayton. He states:
He further says: I guess in America one can get away with lies!
So, if this version is the truth, then all that is needed is to prove the towers were not brought down by dynamite.
What is your take on that?
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Hi, Wolf;
I got some material from educated and known people. I'm sure you have read the same article. What I wonder is how you can be so sure it was not an inside job!
Nothing is 100%. I do know human nature and humans tend to shoot off their mouths - like Rumsfield's little slip about Pennsylvania and shot down. Do we call screw-ups, negligence and incompetence at several levels an inside job or way too much confidence that it couldn't happen?
Here is a statement from Dr. Robert M. Bowman, head of advanced space programs for the Department of Defense: If Bush knew about it, and didn't stop it, then he was in on it! He sanctioned it! Hence an inside job.
IF Bush knew about it....
Here is another person of influence, Michael Meacher, UK Minister of Environment.Do you have any doubt, Wolf, that it is not so? Do you still think America was caught unawares?
I've never said America wasn't aware. There were warnings and they were all dismissed. Like I said ... the Cold war was over and America thought it was bulletproof.
Now, here is a guy who shares your view: U.S. Senator Mark Dayton. He states:
He further says: I guess in America one can get away with lies!
So, if this version is the truth, then all that is needed is to prove the towers were not brought down by dynamite.
What is your take on that?
Yeah ... if it can't be proven, one can easily get away with lies. That's the failing point of Common Law.
Somewhere in here are three different times where I have described the tube construction of WTC as opposed to conventional column-and-beam framework. They were designed to take the all-over loads of hurricane winds and earthquake. They weren't designed for the high speed pointal impact of a heavily loaded passenger jet. The collision would have been like ringing a bell - setting off torsional effects and shearing forces at several levels. Damaged connections acting in conjunction with heat softening steel members would have caused failure to begin.
Whether there was a failsafe system included in the building's construction is not known to me, nor would it be known to anyone who posts in this forum. I haven't dismissed it ... but I can't prove it either.
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