Corey Glass, an Iraq veteran who deserted the National Guard and fled to Canada, can stay in Canada while his legal case unfolds.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/07/09/war-resister.html
U.S. war resister granted stay of deportation order
- Thread starter Praxius
- Start date
Corey Glass, an Iraq veteran who deserted the National Guard and fled to Canada, can stay in Canada while his legal case unfolds.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/07/09/war-resister.html
War resisters have no place in Canada while Canadian soldiers are involved in a war.
They should all be deported until our war has ended and our troops are safely home.
They should all be deported until our war has ended and our troops are safely home.
Why are we there in the first place? Thank you Harpo. If a resistor showed up at my door I would welcome him. So many thousands have died on both sides and for what? Oil, I think not. The Americans didn't finish the job the first time so Daddy and Jeb Busharoo fixed an election (Parizeau tried on a referendum but failed) for Georgie to finish the job and have a permanent place for American troops there regardless of how many die.
Going on over five years that victory was declared. The Busharoos made a huge mistake. But Americans will always do every wrong thing possible in a given situation before they do the right thing---THE RIGHT THING ISN'T HAPPENING!
That might make some sense and I almost could agree with you.... but he's resisting a different war then the one we are fighting, so the two don't relate.
If we were both fighting in Iraq and he fled to Canada to avoid fighting, then yes, I would agree with you.
If he just got back from Afghanistan where we are fighting and feld to Canada to avoid fighting there again, then I could agree with you.
But since these are two different wars, I feel there's a bit of open area for allowing him to stay until he gets his legal things delt with, at the very least.
But this isn't just about someone refusing to fight in Iraq for his country.... no scratch that.... for his government. He already did his time, and they d*cked him around with his papers showing that he's discharged and they placed him into another unit which could throw him back into the fight, where justifiably, he did his time, paid his dues, and if he doesn't want to go back, he shouldn't.... and that's what he's worried about.
If he got his papers showing that he is indeed discharged, then I imagine he would head back over the border, and if it was me, I wouldn't budge an inch until I did get the right documents, and I would want to have a allied country to at least back me up and protect me until official legal procedings were completed against my country, just as I would hope our country would do the same.
It's more about democratic/human rights and that thin line between your rights as a civilian and the rights as a soldier..... and the obligations their and our governments must meet in order to keep whatever trust they have left in the people.
If you sign a contract to serve your country and you meet it to a tee, but then your country doesn't hold up it's end of the bargian, then what else is one supposed to do to make sure they do?
We're not in Iraq.... we're in Afghanistan... he's fighting his legal troubles in relation to Iraq.
No, Thank the LIberals for getting us in Afghanistan.... Harper is only taking over what the Liberals started.... put blame where blame is due.
Nope.... don't forget.... Stay the Course, no matter how retarded things get.
You know, I'm old enough to remember when this country was flooded with US draft dodgers.....many of whom stayed after Carter's amnesty, and many who became citizens. Although as I've grown older, I have swung hard right in my political views, I think we were correct in allowing them to stay.....they were fleeing forced service in the military.
the draft no longer exists.
These are volunteers, people that signed on the dotted line, who agreed with open eyes to serve their country........and then, because of cowardice, or convenience, or because of a sincere wish to protest what they consider an unjust war, they have abandoned their sworn duty.
In the first two cases, cowardice and convenience, we don't want them.
In the last case, if they were really sincere, and wanted to make that point, they would refuse service, serve their time, and take their dishonourable discharge.
It seems Canadians believe US deserters will be shot at dawn......
Here's what they "suffer" for their stand:
Agustin Aguayo, convicted of desertion, a US Army medic? (what, he has a moral problem with helping people?) received a bad conduct discharge, loss of pay and benefits, and 8 months incarceration.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,470284,00.html
Camilo Mejia, served 1 year after refusing to return to Iraq.
the MAXIMUM sentence for desertion is seven years.
http://www.greenleft.org.au/2005/619/35186
Blake Lemoine, sentenced for refusing orders to Iraq. 7 months.
http://www.uslaboragainstwar.org/article.php?id=7943
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5670860
Ryan Jackson refused orders to Iraq, claimed in court he thought "all war was wrong" (?????he VOLUNTEERED!!!!!!!), sentenced to 100 DAYS!
Robert Weiss, pleaded guilty to desertion, sentenced to seven months.
http://www.couragetoresist.org/x/
Six cases.......
Maximum? 1 year, and that severe, as the next closest was 8 months.
So a deserter, on grounds of conscience, could stand in the nation he is sworn to serve, and expect to have to spend 6 months in prison.
LESS TIME THAN HE WOULD BE IN IRAQ.
These guys are NOT resistors, they are NOT credible, they are cowards.
Throw 'em back.
I had some sympathy until I researched the above.
Now I have none.
the draft no longer exists.
These are volunteers, people that signed on the dotted line, who agreed with open eyes to serve their country........and then, because of cowardice, or convenience, or because of a sincere wish to protest what they consider an unjust war, they have abandoned their sworn duty.
In the first two cases, cowardice and convenience, we don't want them.
In the last case, if they were really sincere, and wanted to make that point, they would refuse service, serve their time, and take their dishonourable discharge.
It seems Canadians believe US deserters will be shot at dawn......
Here's what they "suffer" for their stand:
Agustin Aguayo, convicted of desertion, a US Army medic? (what, he has a moral problem with helping people?) received a bad conduct discharge, loss of pay and benefits, and 8 months incarceration.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,470284,00.html
Camilo Mejia, served 1 year after refusing to return to Iraq.
the MAXIMUM sentence for desertion is seven years.
http://www.greenleft.org.au/2005/619/35186
Blake Lemoine, sentenced for refusing orders to Iraq. 7 months.
http://www.uslaboragainstwar.org/article.php?id=7943
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_5670860
Ryan Jackson refused orders to Iraq, claimed in court he thought "all war was wrong" (?????he VOLUNTEERED!!!!!!!), sentenced to 100 DAYS!
Robert Weiss, pleaded guilty to desertion, sentenced to seven months.
http://www.couragetoresist.org/x/
Six cases.......
Maximum? 1 year, and that severe, as the next closest was 8 months.
So a deserter, on grounds of conscience, could stand in the nation he is sworn to serve, and expect to have to spend 6 months in prison.
LESS TIME THAN HE WOULD BE IN IRAQ.
These guys are NOT resistors, they are NOT credible, they are cowards.
Throw 'em back.
I had some sympathy until I researched the above.
Now I have none.
Well like the Army Major said...
"He is not a deserter...he is not AWOL...he's running away for nothing."
So you are welcome to him. He can protest, resist, whatever because he most likely has hero status up there. I am sure he is receiving some sort of free stipend from the Canadian Govt.
Basically he is kicking back and enjoying good ol' Canadian hospitality via Canadian money!
"He is not a deserter...he is not AWOL...he's running away for nothing."
So you are welcome to him. He can protest, resist, whatever because he most likely has hero status up there. I am sure he is receiving some sort of free stipend from the Canadian Govt.
Basically he is kicking back and enjoying good ol' Canadian hospitality via Canadian money!
Dead on.
This stuff is starting to piss me off.
The same people in this country that hail the "courage" of "resistors" that flee a jail sentence in the USA that would be LESS time than they OWE in service they volunteered for.......those same Canadians would piss on John McCain, who "volunteered" for years of torture on a matter of principle.
the left makes me sick.
Colpy
What "logic" are you using that permits you to label anyone who doesn't agree with you..."left"...?
You trust the American government Colpy and perhaps that's because they've never screwed with you directly.... which can't be said for many millions of Americans who have been lied to and lost family on the basis of lies and exaggeration....
Are fathers and mothers who denounce the Bush administration for its record of failures and lies...."left"....?
What "logic" are you using that permits you to label anyone who doesn't agree with you..."left"...?
You trust the American government Colpy and perhaps that's because they've never screwed with you directly.... which can't be said for many millions of Americans who have been lied to and lost family on the basis of lies and exaggeration....
Are fathers and mothers who denounce the Bush administration for its record of failures and lies...."left"....?
Right...they don't end up going to the gallows or spending life in prison.
However you should be happy to know that when they do get out they recieve a Bad Conduct Discharge at the minimum. This will follow them for the rest of their lives. It will come up on every background check when they go for employment. It is a stigma that they will never shake. It is all fun and games now...the spot light is on them...but when the lights and momentary fame wears down and they are forgotten by the people that coddle them they will be stuck with that black mark forever. Look what the Liberals did to Cindy Sheehan. Once the Democrats won Congress back she was shoved aside as these guys will be eventually.
However you should be happy to know that when they do get out they recieve a Bad Conduct Discharge at the minimum. This will follow them for the rest of their lives. It will come up on every background check when they go for employment. It is a stigma that they will never shake. It is all fun and games now...the spot light is on them...but when the lights and momentary fame wears down and they are forgotten by the people that coddle them they will be stuck with that black mark forever. Look what the Liberals did to Cindy Sheehan. Once the Democrats won Congress back she was shoved aside as these guys will be eventually.
Eaglesmack
Greetings!
Could you provide us with some help in differentiating between "cowardice" and "standing up for one's principles"...?
When your nation stands up for the "principle" that torture is wrong...then involves itself in using torture as a means to obtain "intelligence"....has there been a lie told or is it cowardice to take the same route to gain this intelligence in the manner used by and denounced by...American (or Canadian) as one's enemies?
Where does "principle" stop or begin and how might one tell the difference?
Greetings!
Could you provide us with some help in differentiating between "cowardice" and "standing up for one's principles"...?
When your nation stands up for the "principle" that torture is wrong...then involves itself in using torture as a means to obtain "intelligence"....has there been a lie told or is it cowardice to take the same route to gain this intelligence in the manner used by and denounced by...American (or Canadian) as one's enemies?
Where does "principle" stop or begin and how might one tell the difference?
First off...the guy is an idiot. He is claiming status of a resistor and he is not even charged with anything. You are giving this guy a forum and a place to stay and he is just living off Canada's sympathy. If he comes back to the US nobody will be waiting for him to arrest him. He is a wannabe because he needs to be coddled. Canada loves to coddle these guys so you are welcome to him. If he comes back he will have to work and why should he when Canada is giving him all those comforts.
So the US is saying...
"I don't know why Canada is making a big deal of this guy...he is not a deserter or AWOL."
But he is saying...
"No! No! I haven't recieved my DD214 yet!"
I am sure it is sitting on the kitchen table waiting to be opened. But this guy wanted to "run" to Canada and be noticed and coddled. If he was discharged a DD214 is available. If his time is up...when his IRR status is completed he will get an Honorable Discharge to boot. This guy is in far better shape than the other deserters that Canada is holding on to.
I will repeat...enjoy the lad...keep the free loader...he's all yours! :lol:
So the US is saying...
"I don't know why Canada is making a big deal of this guy...he is not a deserter or AWOL."
But he is saying...
"No! No! I haven't recieved my DD214 yet!"
I am sure it is sitting on the kitchen table waiting to be opened. But this guy wanted to "run" to Canada and be noticed and coddled. If he was discharged a DD214 is available. If his time is up...when his IRR status is completed he will get an Honorable Discharge to boot. This guy is in far better shape than the other deserters that Canada is holding on to.
I will repeat...enjoy the lad...keep the free loader...he's all yours! :lol:
The thing is Prax...he has NO legal troubles. He is telling Canada and people sympathetic to the plight of deserters that he does but he is neither AWOL or a deserter.
I agree that there are a quite a few deserters up there that are in deep legal trouble but this guy just wants to be considered as one of them. But he isn't.
As far as I am concerned this guy just needs attention. Apparently he has gone to the right place.
Well, I'll grant you the label often does not fit a person of any specific belief....for instance, I support socialised medical care, which would make me "left" in the USA.
But if you support these "resistors", AND if you think John McCain is an unsavoury monster, war monger, and McBush.....I think the label probably sticks.
It is simply convenient........
Would you prefer I call them brain-dead, appeasing, morally confused, spineless, navel-gazing, latte-sucking, surrender monkeys?
I think "left" is not necessarily a pejorative.
You're still completely wrong in this person's individual case as he hasn't taken off due to being a coward and/or to protest the war as being illegal:
"He said that he hasn't received his DD Form 214, the official discharge form, from the U.S. military. Glass added that while he was discharged from the California National Guard, he was transferred to the individual ready reserve, a federal branch of the military, meaning he could be called up for active duty and could still face prosecution for desertion.
He said that following the news report, he spoke with a U.S. Judge Advocate General and a civilian lawyer who said he's still facing punishment.
"I'm still in the same situation I was in before," he said."
^ Why should he have to go back and face punishment for something he never did and was never his fault?
It's not about just sucking up being put in jail for a year to avoid going to Iraq.... he didn't do anything wrong, followed everything by the book as it would seem based on the information, the military d*cked him over..... and you expect him to just take it and serve jail time for their screw up?
For this guy's paticular situation, it's about principles.... why the hell should he have to goto jail for something he didn't do? And if he's facing that sort of future, then why should Canada blindly toss him to such a corrupt fate?
Because he signed a contact with the Military? Well a contract goes both ways and if the force is going to break their contract or loophole him around so he has to serve more then what was agreed apon, then why should he even fathom exceeding his own requirements to the same contract?
He already met his requirements of the contract.
Buddy maybe should have read the fine print. Reserve means you're still in - whether you're no longer Guard or not. If he'd done it the easy way and twisted an ankle, he'd be 4F now and not hiding.
Now we are going to get into some military legal jargon here. The guy is full of it. How can he get transfered to the IRR w/o a DD 214? You NEED a DD 214 before you get transfered to Inactive Reserve Status. When I was transfered to the IRR and checked in they asked...
"Can I see your DD 214?"
"Yes Sir...here it is."
Wallah! I was now on IRR status.
If he does get called up to serve while on IRR status he WILL be facing trouble. As of now the Army says that he is on IRR and has not been called up. He is basically whining about nothing.
I agree with that. Nobody is at fault in this case. Neither the government, the Army, or Corey. He can come and go as he pleases. He is making this something it isn't.
How did the d*** him over? He did his time, is on IRR status and in good standing and has not been called back to active status.
He can stay in Canada and be up on stage and protest all he wants. You can coddle and pay his bills give him a place to stay...do whatever. He's a free loader.
Up to this point you are right. He is under the IRR required to serve additional time if he is called. So far he has not been called up. If he does get called up and does not report THEN the young man is screwed. The IRR is no loop hole. It has been part of the military contract LONG before this guy signed up. When you sign up you get a 6 to 8 year contract depending on the MOS (job) you sign up for. So many years will be served on active or reserve status...the balance will be on the IRR. In the IRR you can be called back to active duty status. It is in black and white.