The Angry Beaver
Posts: 3,660 
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
May 20th, 2008, 11:55 AM
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...520?hub=Canada
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...520?hub=Canada
Quote:
OTTAWA -- A Conservative MP does not want the federal government to pick up the tab for the Ontario government's plan to cover sex-change surgery under the province's health insurance program.
Ottawa-area Tory MP Pierre Poilievre said Monday he'll write to Finance Minister Jim Flaherty this week asking that federal health transfers to the province pay only for "vital'' health-care treatments, and not sexual reassignment surgery.
Poilievre also said he'll ask the finance minister to withhold from federal transfer payments any money spent by the Ontario government on the sex-change program.
"I think if people want this medically-unnecessary treatment, they have that right. But taxpayers should not have to pick up the tab for it,'' he said.
Ontario Health Minister George Smitherman was unavailable for comment Monday.
But Ministry of Health spokeswoman Laurel Ostfield said some see sex-change as a necessary treatment for the limited number of people who qualify for the procedure.
"This sexual reassignment surgery is regarded amongst the mental health community as a necessary treatment for a very small number of individuals, but individuals who do require this,'' she said.
"It is listed in other provinces, such as Alberta. So, if Mr. Poilievre wants to play politics with people's health, it's really rather unfortunate.''
Smitherman said last week the province would soon provide coverage for sex-change surgery under its health insurance plan.
Ontario's previous Conservative government cancelled coverage of sexual reassignment surgery in 1998, leaving some people stranded midway through the process.
The Ontario Human Rights Commission ruled in 2006 that the province should pay the bill for three people whose sex-change procedures were interrupted by the cancellation. However, it did not force the province to reinstate coverage of the operations.
Those who opposed the 10-year prohibition of paying for sex-change operations said it wouldn't cost the province much to cover the procedures.
A small private hospital in Montreal, the Centre Metropolitain de Chirurgie Plastique, charges patients $17,000 for a sex-change operation
Smitherman estimated last week the government's decision would affect "between eight and 10 people in Ontario'' who have undergone psychological evaluations by the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health.
Ottawa-area Tory MP Pierre Poilievre said Monday he'll write to Finance Minister Jim Flaherty this week asking that federal health transfers to the province pay only for "vital'' health-care treatments, and not sexual reassignment surgery.
Poilievre also said he'll ask the finance minister to withhold from federal transfer payments any money spent by the Ontario government on the sex-change program.
"I think if people want this medically-unnecessary treatment, they have that right. But taxpayers should not have to pick up the tab for it,'' he said.
Ontario Health Minister George Smitherman was unavailable for comment Monday.
But Ministry of Health spokeswoman Laurel Ostfield said some see sex-change as a necessary treatment for the limited number of people who qualify for the procedure.
"This sexual reassignment surgery is regarded amongst the mental health community as a necessary treatment for a very small number of individuals, but individuals who do require this,'' she said.
"It is listed in other provinces, such as Alberta. So, if Mr. Poilievre wants to play politics with people's health, it's really rather unfortunate.''
Smitherman said last week the province would soon provide coverage for sex-change surgery under its health insurance plan.
Ontario's previous Conservative government cancelled coverage of sexual reassignment surgery in 1998, leaving some people stranded midway through the process.
The Ontario Human Rights Commission ruled in 2006 that the province should pay the bill for three people whose sex-change procedures were interrupted by the cancellation. However, it did not force the province to reinstate coverage of the operations.
Those who opposed the 10-year prohibition of paying for sex-change operations said it wouldn't cost the province much to cover the procedures.
A small private hospital in Montreal, the Centre Metropolitain de Chirurgie Plastique, charges patients $17,000 for a sex-change operation
Smitherman estimated last week the government's decision would affect "between eight and 10 people in Ontario'' who have undergone psychological evaluations by the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health.
May 20th, 2008, 12:08 PM
Our medical system covers elective abortions based on each individual's "right to life, liberty and security of the person." The cost of those combined probably highly exceeds sex change operations, which I would easily argue ought to be granted on the same grounds of liberty and security of person.
Our medical system covers elective abortions based on each individual's "right to life, liberty and security of the person." The cost of those combined probably highly exceeds sex change operations, which I would easily argue ought to be granted on the same grounds of liberty and security of person.
May 20th, 2008, 12:57 PM
Quoting tracy
Well, I made sure not to just say 'abortion', I said 'elective abortion', and I didn't say they were the same thing, I said that the same right to liberty and security of person should apply to transgendered individuals. If we were to start picking apart all the elective procedures (gastric bypass as another example), and putting morality judgements and price tags on them, deciding their worthiness, I just wanted a clear illustration of some of the other procedures that one could lump in under the same umbrella.
I see it as being very different from abortions, but I don't have a problem with paying for it. It's going to be a very small amount of money overall.
The Angry Beaver
Posts: 3,660
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
May 20th, 2008, 01:12 PM
I'm personally indifferent on the decision for the time being (Depends on how much of an increase there is over time on people getting this proceedure and other unknown factors at this time)
But I don't think I could come close to relating this operation to an abortion, as even in some abortion cases, the reasons could be listed under physical harm that may come from the birthing process, up to and including death, where a sex change is more so for a mental state of mind for an individual and they will not actually die from not getting the proceedure (Except perhaps from some violent assault from some homophobic person, or themselves commiting suicide due to some emotional/mental distress ~ Which would be commited by their own actions)
Added:
Read your correction Karrie and has been noted.
I'm personally indifferent on the decision for the time being (Depends on how much of an increase there is over time on people getting this proceedure and other unknown factors at this time)
But I don't think I could come close to relating this operation to an abortion, as even in some abortion cases, the reasons could be listed under physical harm that may come from the birthing process, up to and including death, where a sex change is more so for a mental state of mind for an individual and they will not actually die from not getting the proceedure (Except perhaps from some violent assault from some homophobic person, or themselves commiting suicide due to some emotional/mental distress ~ Which would be commited by their own actions)
Added:
Read your correction Karrie and has been noted.
May 20th, 2008, 01:21 PM
Quoting Praxius
Stress and depression are enormous burdens on our health care system and can indeed lead to death (through suicide most obviously, but general malaise can also lead to heart problems, etc).
.... where a sex change is more so for a mental state of mind for an individual and they will not actually die from not getting the proceedure ....
sick and twisted
Posts: 2,363
Location: Backwater, Ontario.
Location: Backwater, Ontario.
May 20th, 2008, 01:37 PM
Awwwww Jeeez, Edittt, now dey wanus ta pay fer cuttin off der tings, eh, er, and mayybeee
sewin one on...............Jeez, Editt, wats de werld comin too anyways.. I got depressed mos of de time livin wid you eh, and nobody but mees payin fer dat, eh....
Cumon Awwwchie..........de poor folks ain't happy like dey is eh, and it gives us a chance to maybeee help someone Awwwchie.......an it don't cost tooo much eh.
Yehbuttt, Editttt, if dey ain't happy de way dey is, why waz dey born dat way, eh Edittt, answeh me dat, eh........
Awwwwwwwwwwwwww Awwchie, c'mon, ya knows ya don meanit.
(dis bone connected to dat bone, and dat bone..................)
Awwwww Jeeez, Edittt, now dey wanus ta pay fer cuttin off der tings, eh, er, and mayybeeesewin one on...............Jeez, Editt, wats de werld comin too anyways.. I got depressed mos of de time livin wid you eh, and nobody but mees payin fer dat, eh....
Cumon Awwwchie..........de poor folks ain't happy like dey is eh, and it gives us a chance to maybeee help someone Awwwchie.......an it don't cost tooo much eh.
Yehbuttt, Editttt, if dey ain't happy de way dey is, why waz dey born dat way, eh Edittt, answeh me dat, eh........
Awwwwwwwwwwwwww Awwchie, c'mon, ya knows ya don meanit.
(dis bone connected to dat bone, and dat bone..................) 
May 20th, 2008, 02:22 PM
Oh the optics of it all. Make a big deal out of some procedure that eight or ten people would opt for.
I second Karrie's question. I think long term insured health care services for these eight to ten people would probably be more costly than the operations themselves. Just think about the ten years this was off the books. Medication, regular visits with psychiatrists, blood work, and other diagnostics.
Oh the optics of it all. Make a big deal out of some procedure that eight or ten people would opt for.
I second Karrie's question. I think long term insured health care services for these eight to ten people would probably be more costly than the operations themselves. Just think about the ten years this was off the books. Medication, regular visits with psychiatrists, blood work, and other diagnostics.
House Member
Posts: 2,761
Location: California
Location: California
May 20th, 2008, 02:38 PM
Quoting karrie
That's why I don't have a problem with the system paying for it. It's a mental health issue. I do have problems with that reason being used at times because it can be abused. I just think it's legitimate here.
I wonder how the cost of the operation compares to the cost of treating an individual who is ill and depressed because they can't afford the operation and are stuck in the wrong body?
The Angry Beaver
Posts: 3,660
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
May 20th, 2008, 02:52 PM
I chalk it up to "That's Life, Get Used To It" ~ Everything can lead to heart problems, everything can lead to suicide depending on the person. Sometimes people need to deal with the fact that life is never fair and nobody on this planet always gets what they wanted. (That's generally speaking, not directed towards those who want sex changes in paticular, as certain cases need to be addressed by doctors etc, prior to actually getting a tax paid operation.)
Quoting karrie
True, but everything under the sun and beyond can be attributed to someone being or getting depressed and is quite subjective, considdering one thing that doesn't bother one person may affect another. It's one of those "Where does one draw the line" thingys.
Stress and depression are enormous burdens on our health care system and can indeed lead to death (through suicide most obviously, but general malaise can also lead to heart problems, etc).
I chalk it up to "That's Life, Get Used To It" ~ Everything can lead to heart problems, everything can lead to suicide depending on the person. Sometimes people need to deal with the fact that life is never fair and nobody on this planet always gets what they wanted. (That's generally speaking, not directed towards those who want sex changes in paticular, as certain cases need to be addressed by doctors etc, prior to actually getting a tax paid operation.)
The Angry Beaver
Posts: 3,660
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
May 20th, 2008, 02:57 PM
Quoting Tonington
Once again, I'm not quite against it at the moment (Neutral) but being the devil's advocate here, what about the continual coverage of the hormone medication and the sort that comes after an operation? An operation alone doesn't stop the bills coming in from this sort of situation and additional treatments still come into play.
Oh the optics of it all. Make a big deal out of some procedure that eight or ten people would opt for.
I second Karrie's question. I think long term insured health care services for these eight to ten people would probably be more costly than the operations themselves. Just think about the ten years this was off the books. Medication, regular visits with psychiatrists, blood work, and other diagnostics.
I second Karrie's question. I think long term insured health care services for these eight to ten people would probably be more costly than the operations themselves. Just think about the ten years this was off the books. Medication, regular visits with psychiatrists, blood work, and other diagnostics.
House Member
Posts: 3,096
May 20th, 2008, 04:46 PM
Hormone medication would be drugs.
Drugs aren't covered.
Much like why some people take their sick kid to the doctor 10 times in a row because they can't afford prescriptions so they just keep showing up till they get something that doesn't involve meds.
Hormone medication would be drugs.
Drugs aren't covered.
Much like why some people take their sick kid to the doctor 10 times in a row because they can't afford prescriptions so they just keep showing up till they get something that doesn't involve meds.
The Angry Beaver
Posts: 3,660
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
May 20th, 2008, 05:00 PM
Quoting Zzarchov
Medical Marijuana is covered for some in certain proviences... that's a drug.
Hormone medication would be drugs.
Drugs aren't covered.
Much like why some people take their sick kid to the doctor 10 times in a row because they can't afford prescriptions so they just keep showing up till they get something that doesn't involve meds.
Drugs aren't covered.
Much like why some people take their sick kid to the doctor 10 times in a row because they can't afford prescriptions so they just keep showing up till they get something that doesn't involve meds.
sick and twisted
Posts: 2,363
Location: Backwater, Ontario.
Location: Backwater, Ontario.
May 20th, 2008, 06:44 PM
Yeah, it's more like a slice up the middle and a tuck inside kinda thing..... like Haggis.""Praxius
Jeebus!! I KNOW that. Archie Bunker doesn't/didn'/t: You got it, right? Yer just messin with me ain't ya?
But, Haggis might take exception being compared to a split dick. She could be out there, watching us as we type. Beware the pissed off Haggis McBagpipe.
Yeah, it's more like a slice up the middle and a tuck inside kinda thing..... like Haggis.""Praxius
Jeebus!! I KNOW that. Archie Bunker doesn't/didn'/t: You got it, right? Yer just messin with me ain't ya?
But, Haggis might take exception being compared to a split dick. She could be out there, watching us as we type. Beware the pissed off Haggis McBagpipe.
