Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612 
May 11th, 2008, 10:33 AM
Well Tracy and Karrie I'm tickled to death that you've never been in the position to have to make these kinds of decisions. I have. I'm also very pleased that with any luck the decision-making process when it comes to protecting your loved ones and people you care about will be as simple as the application of unnecessary force that may leave them worse-off than they were to begin with.
Buy yourselves a round of Pollyana cocktails and celebrate your do-nothing everything will be fine attitudes.
The fact is that it's easy for you to wail and thrash your arms around when you hear about somehing like this but what will be your response when it happens to you? You folk operate on the NYMBY principle and the next time an individual's safety is compromised by a cop or someone else responding inappropriately to the situation will you be as ready to celebrate your willing denial?
Where is the balance for you people? Prison guards aren't dealing with the "cream-of-the-crop" of society so should we simply accept that any response short of shooting these people is acceptable? And when and where is the determination made that non-lethal force is demanded in this or that situation?
Oh yeah I forgot....everything will be just fine......
Well Tracy and Karrie I'm tickled to death that you've never been in the position to have to make these kinds of decisions. I have. I'm also very pleased that with any luck the decision-making process when it comes to protecting your loved ones and people you care about will be as simple as the application of unnecessary force that may leave them worse-off than they were to begin with.
Buy yourselves a round of Pollyana cocktails and celebrate your do-nothing everything will be fine attitudes.
The fact is that it's easy for you to wail and thrash your arms around when you hear about somehing like this but what will be your response when it happens to you? You folk operate on the NYMBY principle and the next time an individual's safety is compromised by a cop or someone else responding inappropriately to the situation will you be as ready to celebrate your willing denial?
Where is the balance for you people? Prison guards aren't dealing with the "cream-of-the-crop" of society so should we simply accept that any response short of shooting these people is acceptable? And when and where is the determination made that non-lethal force is demanded in this or that situation?
Oh yeah I forgot....everything will be just fine......
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,699
Location: California
Location: California
May 11th, 2008, 11:29 AM
With all due respect Mikey, you know very little about me to assume you know what sort of situations I've found myself in over the years. Did it ever occur to you that my life experiences may have led me to have a less than tolerant view of a man pulling a knife on someone? Maybe for reasons I wouldn't discuss with you, I tend to identify more with the person on the receiving end of a threat than the one doing the threatenning. And no, I wouldn't wail if this happened to me, because it wouldn't happen to me. I don't pull knives on people. If I ever do and a cop tasers me... hey, my fault. I'd consider myself lucky to get out of the situation completely healthy.
With all due respect Mikey, you know very little about me to assume you know what sort of situations I've found myself in over the years. Did it ever occur to you that my life experiences may have led me to have a less than tolerant view of a man pulling a knife on someone? Maybe for reasons I wouldn't discuss with you, I tend to identify more with the person on the receiving end of a threat than the one doing the threatenning. And no, I wouldn't wail if this happened to me, because it wouldn't happen to me. I don't pull knives on people. If I ever do and a cop tasers me... hey, my fault. I'd consider myself lucky to get out of the situation completely healthy.
Les
Posts: 5,726
Location: 50 acres in Kootenays BC
Location: 50 acres in Kootenays BC
May 11th, 2008, 11:46 AM
Seems to me that keeping of the peace used to be an honorable profession and for the most part honorable people used to seek employment in the field. What I have been hearng over the past decade is a degredation of this virtue and that the population of the "schoolyard bully" type of person in the field is growing.
Or is it just that the newsmedia prefers to stress the bad instances and keep hush on the instances of the good that the police do?
Or is it both?
Seems to me that keeping of the peace used to be an honorable profession and for the most part honorable people used to seek employment in the field. What I have been hearng over the past decade is a degredation of this virtue and that the population of the "schoolyard bully" type of person in the field is growing.
Or is it just that the newsmedia prefers to stress the bad instances and keep hush on the instances of the good that the police do?
Or is it both?
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,699
Location: California
Location: California
May 11th, 2008, 12:15 PM
. My dad was a cop for over 30 years and never shot or tased anybody either.
I've met a lot of jerk cops (I was surrounded by mounties until I left home), but I don't think they have a higher porportion of jerks than any other profession. I've met WAY more jerk doctors and nurses.
Even then, I think the good hugely outweigh the bad, but no one wants to report on that. I currently work in what I would consider to be an excellent hospital. I love it and plan to stay there as long as they'll have me. It's the first place I've worked in a long time that is truly focused on good patient care above all other considerations. It's not about egos, administrative bs, money, etc. Our families are overwhelmingly pleased with the care they receive. We routinely get them coming back to drop off cards or sweets to say thank you. But, we were on the local news a lot because John Ritter died there. That's all people hear about. I've had people ask me where I work and it's the first thing that comes out of their mouths ("oh, where john ritter died?").
Quoting L Gilbert
I suspect this is true of many professions. My brother saved a stabbing victim by choosing to carry him to his cruiser and drive him to the hospital rather than wait for the ambulance (as is proper procedure). No one not directly involved with that heard a thing about it I'm sure. I didn't even know until I was visiting and the man accosted us in the street, thanking my brother and telling me what happened. My brother's pretty quiet and seemed embarassed by the attention. He's been in the RCMP for about 5 years now without any complaints. He's the last person who could be described as a schoolyard bully. I'm the one who punched a kid at school that was calling him names (I was in kindergarten at the time, he was in the second grade). He just ignored it. He's always been that way. I think he needs to stand up for himself more in general and with his wife in particular, but that's another story
Or is it just that the newsmedia prefers to stress the bad instances and keep hush on the instances of the good that the police do?
. My dad was a cop for over 30 years and never shot or tased anybody either. I've met a lot of jerk cops (I was surrounded by mounties until I left home), but I don't think they have a higher porportion of jerks than any other profession. I've met WAY more jerk doctors and nurses.
Even then, I think the good hugely outweigh the bad, but no one wants to report on that. I currently work in what I would consider to be an excellent hospital. I love it and plan to stay there as long as they'll have me. It's the first place I've worked in a long time that is truly focused on good patient care above all other considerations. It's not about egos, administrative bs, money, etc. Our families are overwhelmingly pleased with the care they receive. We routinely get them coming back to drop off cards or sweets to say thank you. But, we were on the local news a lot because John Ritter died there. That's all people hear about. I've had people ask me where I work and it's the first thing that comes out of their mouths ("oh, where john ritter died?").
Les
Posts: 5,726
Location: 50 acres in Kootenays BC
Location: 50 acres in Kootenays BC
May 11th, 2008, 12:36 PM
Yes, I agree that it is likely both: that it is a profession that attracts the sort that loves to have power over other people and that the newsmedia prefer to stick to the gloom and doom sort of story.
I think the psychologists that screen recruits must be overloaded with gov'tal bureaucracy and tend to slide more idiots through that shouldn't be considered for police work for the sake of expediency than they used to let through.
As far as I know, police are specially trained to be able to keep their wits about them when in difficult circumstances. Now, it doesn't seem to be that way. But I think the newsmedia is at fault for this illusion because they sensationalise things waaaaay beyond the rational. News is business now, not a societal service.
Also, regular folks don't think what would happen if they take an unusal circumstance and blurt it to the press. Besides that, most people don't think about what they hear in the media, they tend to get emotional over a lot of what they hear and lose their wits. The media feeds on this. They want people to be emotional and unthinking.
Anyway, for as long as I was a firefighter and the many cops I have met over the years, there are only three that stick out in my mind as being wrong for the job. And I have met dozens.
Yes, I agree that it is likely both: that it is a profession that attracts the sort that loves to have power over other people and that the newsmedia prefer to stick to the gloom and doom sort of story.
I think the psychologists that screen recruits must be overloaded with gov'tal bureaucracy and tend to slide more idiots through that shouldn't be considered for police work for the sake of expediency than they used to let through.
As far as I know, police are specially trained to be able to keep their wits about them when in difficult circumstances. Now, it doesn't seem to be that way. But I think the newsmedia is at fault for this illusion because they sensationalise things waaaaay beyond the rational. News is business now, not a societal service.
Also, regular folks don't think what would happen if they take an unusal circumstance and blurt it to the press. Besides that, most people don't think about what they hear in the media, they tend to get emotional over a lot of what they hear and lose their wits. The media feeds on this. They want people to be emotional and unthinking.
Anyway, for as long as I was a firefighter and the many cops I have met over the years, there are only three that stick out in my mind as being wrong for the job. And I have met dozens.
