Super Genius
Posts: 1,006 
May 9th, 2008, 02:14 PM
What else is new two big RCMP officers are not able to subdue an 81 year old man. F BULL SH!T. They just love to use the taser because their idiots in the Union said it is better for them, les threat for two big men in case the old man has a black belt in Karate.
F idiots.
Quoting Praxius
Agreed.....Although my mother is also a nurse in a retirement home for mentally disabled people and her risks can sometimes be high depending on the situation, these situations can be dealt with very easily.... and RCMP officers tasering people, yet again becuase they don't have the time or the patience isn't acceptable.
And if a middle aged guy from Poland can die from the involvement of the taser twice, I'm sure the chances of this 80+ year old man on oxygen and had heart surgery and shot three times wasn't too far behind.
Tough ol fart.
And if a middle aged guy from Poland can die from the involvement of the taser twice, I'm sure the chances of this 80+ year old man on oxygen and had heart surgery and shot three times wasn't too far behind.
Tough ol fart.
What else is new two big RCMP officers are not able to subdue an 81 year old man. F BULL SH!T. They just love to use the taser because their idiots in the Union said it is better for them, les threat for two big men in case the old man has a black belt in Karate.
F idiots.
Jerk Extraordinaire
Posts: 2,950 
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
May 9th, 2008, 02:41 PM
Quoting Socrates the Greek
Maybe all the RCMP officers used to be nerds in high school and got beaten up all the time by bullies for watching too much Star Trek and now they got their own Phasers to role play on us all with their nerdy fantasies. What else is new two big RCMP officers are not able to subdue an 81 year old man. F BULL SH!T. They just love to use the taser because their idiots in the Union said it is better for them, les threat for two big men in case the old man has a black belt in Karate.
F idiots.
F idiots.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,006
May 9th, 2008, 04:22 PM
One thing for sure is the RCMP is shifting from PEACE BROKERS TO KILLING BROKERS. I DON’T CARE WHICH WAY THEY PUT THEIR SPIN ON, the fact remains that hearing an officer yesterday comment on the old man in the hospital he made mention that on a case like this we would not use pepper spray because we would contaminate the hospital. What a stupid statement to make. A young strong officer having no people skills but instead he has a taser. Is that shifting to robots or what?
Quoting Praxius
Maybe all the RCMP officers used to be nerds in high school and got beaten up all the time by bullies for watching too much Star Trek and now they got their own Phasers to role play on us all with their nerdy fantasies.
One thing for sure is the RCMP is shifting from PEACE BROKERS TO KILLING BROKERS. I DON’T CARE WHICH WAY THEY PUT THEIR SPIN ON, the fact remains that hearing an officer yesterday comment on the old man in the hospital he made mention that on a case like this we would not use pepper spray because we would contaminate the hospital. What a stupid statement to make. A young strong officer having no people skills but instead he has a taser. Is that shifting to robots or what?
Super Genius
Posts: 1,041
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
May 9th, 2008, 05:48 PM
The old guy is having trouble breathing and the only reason they didn't use pepper spray was because they "would have contaminated the hospital"? He CAN'T BREATHE and they considered pepper spray. That is outlandish.
He was lucky they were too stupid to use pepper spray, it likely would have killed him. Idiots.
Quoting Socrates the Greek
Yeah, it was the pepper spray comment that sealed the deal for me too. One thing for sure is the RCMP is shifting from PEACE BROKERS TO KILLING BROKERS. I DON’T CARE WHICH WAY THEY PUT THEIR SPIN ON, the fact remains that hearing an officer yesterday comment on the old man in the hospital he made mention that on a case like this we would not use pepper spray because we would contaminate the hospital. What a stupid statement to make. A young strong officer having no people skills but instead he has a taser. Is that shifting to robots or what?
The old guy is having trouble breathing and the only reason they didn't use pepper spray was because they "would have contaminated the hospital"? He CAN'T BREATHE and they considered pepper spray. That is outlandish.
He was lucky they were too stupid to use pepper spray, it likely would have killed him. Idiots.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,006
May 9th, 2008, 08:16 PM
we look at the unfortunate polish man Mr. Robert Dziekanski who died at the Vancouver air port after 5 strong men taking down a man who desperately needed some one to help him, being that he had been forgotten by Immigrations customs clearance people and instead 5 STRONG MAN CAME TO REMOVE HIM BECAUSE HE WAS UPSET AND JUSTIFIABLY SO. HE WAS LOOKING FOR HELP BUT IN STEAD HE GOT THE TASER TREATMENT BY A MISERABLY FAILED PEACE BROKERING AGENCY THE RCMP.
True humanity would cry foul looking at incidents such us the 82 year old man tasered or pepper sprayed instead of aproched with a good set of peoples skills or Mr. Robert Dziekanski tasered instead of approached with a good quality people skills while instead lethal unnecessary force was used. There IS a lot of repair needed with in the frame work of the highest level of peace brokering in Canada by the RCMP.
Quoting Sal
Sal;
Yeah, it was the pepper spray comment that sealed the deal for me too.
The old guy is having trouble breathing and the only reason they didn't use pepper spray was because they "would have contaminated the hospital"? He CAN'T BREATHE and they considered pepper spray. That is outlandish.
He was lucky they were too stupid to use pepper spray, it likely would have killed him. Idiots.
The old guy is having trouble breathing and the only reason they didn't use pepper spray was because they "would have contaminated the hospital"? He CAN'T BREATHE and they considered pepper spray. That is outlandish.
He was lucky they were too stupid to use pepper spray, it likely would have killed him. Idiots.
we look at the unfortunate polish man Mr. Robert Dziekanski who died at the Vancouver air port after 5 strong men taking down a man who desperately needed some one to help him, being that he had been forgotten by Immigrations customs clearance people and instead 5 STRONG MAN CAME TO REMOVE HIM BECAUSE HE WAS UPSET AND JUSTIFIABLY SO. HE WAS LOOKING FOR HELP BUT IN STEAD HE GOT THE TASER TREATMENT BY A MISERABLY FAILED PEACE BROKERING AGENCY THE RCMP.
True humanity would cry foul looking at incidents such us the 82 year old man tasered or pepper sprayed instead of aproched with a good set of peoples skills or Mr. Robert Dziekanski tasered instead of approached with a good quality people skills while instead lethal unnecessary force was used. There IS a lot of repair needed with in the frame work of the highest level of peace brokering in Canada by the RCMP.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,699
Location: California
Location: California
May 9th, 2008, 09:08 PM
Quoting gerryh
Dramatic much? This guy wasn't killed. He has a bruise. That's a pretty small price to pay for pulling a knife on people.
Tell that to the people that have died after being tasered and the families they left behind.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,699
Location: California
Location: California
May 9th, 2008, 09:12 PM
Quoting Praxius
Easily? You'd want your mom to try to subdue someone with a knife? As far as I'm concerned the nursing staff is not security. I call security (someone with a weapon is code silver where I work and you hear it over the PA system occasionally). Only once have I gotten physical with a patient/visitor and I didn't have much of a choice (it ended with her on the floor bleeding with a handful of another nurse's hair she ripped out). I wonder why RIH's security department chose to involve the police instead of handling it themselves?
Agreed.....Although my mother is also a nurse in a retirement home for mentally disabled people and her risks can sometimes be high depending on the situation, these situations can be dealt with very easily.....
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,678
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
May 9th, 2008, 09:15 PM
Luckily.... so........ you see no problem with 3 cops tasering an 82 year old man on oxygen laying in a hospital bed with a small pocket knife as a weapon.
Quoting tracy
Dramatic much? This guy wasn't killed. He has a bruise. That's a pretty small price to pay for pulling a knife on people.
Luckily.... so........ you see no problem with 3 cops tasering an 82 year old man on oxygen laying in a hospital bed with a small pocket knife as a weapon.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,699
Location: California
Location: California
May 9th, 2008, 09:25 PM
) .
Frankly, I find hospital stories like this frustrating. If he was truly just laying there with his knife in his hands and not threatenning anyone, the policy should be to remove anyone else from the room (cause there are rarely private rooms at that hospital) and isolate him until security could deal with him. Why were the police even called? I did rotations at that hospital and think it's a sh*t hole, but they have pretty clear policies on what to do with aggressive patients. If his account is accurate, he has grounds for a lawsuit. I doubt most of the people who were there would agree with it though, but of course they can't talk because of patient confidentiality.
Quoting gerryh
If he was just laying in a bed placidly, I doubt they would have tasered him. If he was asked to give up a knife to a cop, he's supposed to do it. If he's too delirious to be able to recognize that, then he's too delirious to be safe and his memory of events has to be called into question. I love when reporters ignore the obvious contradictions (I was delirious... I remember everything perfectly though
Luckily.... so........ you see no problem with 3 cops tasering an 82 year old man on oxygen laying in a hospital bed with a small pocket knife as a weapon.
) . Frankly, I find hospital stories like this frustrating. If he was truly just laying there with his knife in his hands and not threatenning anyone, the policy should be to remove anyone else from the room (cause there are rarely private rooms at that hospital) and isolate him until security could deal with him. Why were the police even called? I did rotations at that hospital and think it's a sh*t hole, but they have pretty clear policies on what to do with aggressive patients. If his account is accurate, he has grounds for a lawsuit. I doubt most of the people who were there would agree with it though, but of course they can't talk because of patient confidentiality.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,699
Location: California
Location: California
May 9th, 2008, 09:29 PM
I think it's also important to mention that officers could have severely harmed this man if they struggled with him for long. Take someone who is already oxygen deprived with a cardiac history and struggle with them for a while and see what happens.
This story ended with some minor bruises on one person. No deaths, no serious injuries. Not a terribly bad ending in my book.
I think it's also important to mention that officers could have severely harmed this man if they struggled with him for long. Take someone who is already oxygen deprived with a cardiac history and struggle with them for a while and see what happens.
This story ended with some minor bruises on one person. No deaths, no serious injuries. Not a terribly bad ending in my book.
Jerk Extraordinaire
Posts: 2,950
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
May 9th, 2008, 09:46 PM
This is not always the case, but it's a good start.
Quoting tracy
*Sigh* no... easily would be to keep your distance and keep talking to the guy until he calms the hell down.... for starters. There have been cases where she has just talked to the guy for a couple of minutes and then diverted the conversation to something else as a distraction and then the patient calmed down.
Easily? You'd want your mom to try to subdue someone with a knife?
This is not always the case, but it's a good start.
Quote:
Yeah I think you misunderstood. I was not implying my mom to get midevil on the guy.
As far as I'm concerned the nursing staff is not security. I call security (someone with a weapon is code silver where I work and you hear it over the PA system occasionally). Only once have I gotten physical with a patient/visitor and I didn't have much of a choice (it ended with her on the floor bleeding with a handful of another nurse's hair she ripped out). I wonder why RIH's security department chose to involve the police instead of handling it themselves?
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,699
Location: California
Location: California
May 9th, 2008, 09:53 PM
Fortunately retirement home residents usually don't have that issue to deal with. I've seen nurses use the distraction method before. We had a Korean lady on one of my geriatric rotation who thought she had a baby (it was just a doll). She was completely demented, often violent and didn't speak a word of English. The best solution was for someone to get the doll, waive it at her and run!
She would lose interest in whoever she was trying to hit or pinch and run after her baby. Once she got the baby back she was so focused on it (she even breastfed it sometimes) that she lost all interest in the staff. She pinched me so hard on my arm once I almost cried. It left a nice bruise. That definitely wasn't my favorite rotation! Bless people like your mother!!!
Quoting Praxius
It can be, but it also depends on the patient's condition. If he was delirious because he was so lacking in oxygen, then waiting longer would seem to just excacerbate that.
*Sigh* no... easily would be to keep your distance and keep talking to the guy until he calms the hell down.... for starters. There have been cases where she has just talked to the guy for a couple of minutes and then diverted the conversation to something else as a distraction and then the patient calmed down.
This is not always the case, but it's a good start.
.
This is not always the case, but it's a good start.
.
Fortunately retirement home residents usually don't have that issue to deal with. I've seen nurses use the distraction method before. We had a Korean lady on one of my geriatric rotation who thought she had a baby (it was just a doll). She was completely demented, often violent and didn't speak a word of English. The best solution was for someone to get the doll, waive it at her and run!
She would lose interest in whoever she was trying to hit or pinch and run after her baby. Once she got the baby back she was so focused on it (she even breastfed it sometimes) that she lost all interest in the staff. She pinched me so hard on my arm once I almost cried. It left a nice bruise. That definitely wasn't my favorite rotation! Bless people like your mother!!!
Super Genius
Posts: 1,041
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
May 10th, 2008, 09:04 AM
That was truly an unfortunate disaster.
Unfortunately, it's the nature of the beast.
Quoting Socrates the Greek
Sal;
we look at the unfortunate polish man Mr. Robert Dziekanski who died at the Vancouver air port after 5 strong men taking down a man who desperately needed some one to help him, being that he had been forgotten by Immigrations customs clearance people and instead 5 STRONG MAN CAME TO REMOVE HIM BECAUSE HE WAS UPSET AND JUSTIFIABLY SO. HE WAS LOOKING FOR HELP BUT IN STEAD HE GOT THE TASER TREATMENT BY A MISERABLY FAILED PEACE BROKERING AGENCY THE RCMP.
we look at the unfortunate polish man Mr. Robert Dziekanski who died at the Vancouver air port after 5 strong men taking down a man who desperately needed some one to help him, being that he had been forgotten by Immigrations customs clearance people and instead 5 STRONG MAN CAME TO REMOVE HIM BECAUSE HE WAS UPSET AND JUSTIFIABLY SO. HE WAS LOOKING FOR HELP BUT IN STEAD HE GOT THE TASER TREATMENT BY A MISERABLY FAILED PEACE BROKERING AGENCY THE RCMP.
That was truly an unfortunate disaster.
Quote:
Very true. The unfortunate part of this is that our law enforcement deal daily with individuals who are less than savory. They are not social workers and as such sometimes do not handle situations in a manner which results in the best outcome possible. True humanity would cry foul looking at incidents such us the 82 year old man tasered or pepper sprayed instead of aproched with a good set of peoples skills or Mr. Robert Dziekanski tasered instead of approached with a good quality people skills while instead lethal unnecessary force was used. There IS a lot of repair needed with in the frame work of the highest level of peace brokering in Canada by the RCMP.
Unfortunately, it's the nature of the beast.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
May 10th, 2008, 09:12 AM
Tracy
Two smallish folk can subdue a far larger person quickly and effectively by denying the aggressor light and freedom of movement. A simple thing like a blanket or a small mattress controlled by two people with freedom of movement....walking up either side of the prone individual...and applying downward pressure on top of the aggressor will effectively neutralize this kind of threat. I've used it and watched it used time and time again.
It might not be pleasant to consider, but these officers like the guards at the airport were little more than bullies and if their training is so poor we need to understand why.
Tracy
Two smallish folk can subdue a far larger person quickly and effectively by denying the aggressor light and freedom of movement. A simple thing like a blanket or a small mattress controlled by two people with freedom of movement....walking up either side of the prone individual...and applying downward pressure on top of the aggressor will effectively neutralize this kind of threat. I've used it and watched it used time and time again.
It might not be pleasant to consider, but these officers like the guards at the airport were little more than bullies and if their training is so poor we need to understand why.
May 10th, 2008, 11:58 AM
Quoting MikeyDB
That sounds almost as risky to me as the option of tazering. You risk tearing out IV's, breathing tubes, feeding tubes in some cases, and you risk them moving that knife into an awkward position right before you press down on them with the mattress. but I guess if the headline reads 'senior bleeds to death when nurses impale him on his own knife', it doesn't paint the RCMP in such a bad light.
Tracy
Two smallish folk can subdue a far larger person quickly and effectively by denying the aggressor light and freedom of movement. A simple thing like a blanket or a small mattress controlled by two people with freedom of movement....walking up either side of the prone individual...and applying downward pressure on top of the aggressor will effectively neutralize this kind of threat. I've used it and watched it used time and time again.
It might not be pleasant to consider, but these officers like the guards at the airport were little more than bullies and if their training is so poor we need to understand why.
Two smallish folk can subdue a far larger person quickly and effectively by denying the aggressor light and freedom of movement. A simple thing like a blanket or a small mattress controlled by two people with freedom of movement....walking up either side of the prone individual...and applying downward pressure on top of the aggressor will effectively neutralize this kind of threat. I've used it and watched it used time and time again.
It might not be pleasant to consider, but these officers like the guards at the airport were little more than bullies and if their training is so poor we need to understand why.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,699
Location: California
Location: California
May 11th, 2008, 10:21 AM
Well, it's not going to be me doing it I guarantee you.
I think police or security may have been able to do the blanket thing, but they may not have. I mean, do you have any idea how cramped those rooms are? Depending on the unit, he may have been in a four person room. I've had trouble getting around beds, chairs, etc. just to fill water glasses. I'm not going to bet my life on the idea that I could quickly get to someone and get a knife out of their hands. But, even if they could have done that, I just don't think you should get to bitch about a little bruise or two after you pulled a weapon on a nurse and refused to give it up to the cops. That's a pretty minor consequence to some majorly bad behavior.
Quoting karrie
That sounds almost as risky to me as the option of tazering. You risk tearing out IV's, breathing tubes, feeding tubes in some cases, and you risk them moving that knife into an awkward position right before you press down on them with the mattress. but I guess if the headline reads 'senior bleeds to death when nurses impale him on his own knife', it doesn't paint the RCMP in such a bad light.
Well, it's not going to be me doing it I guarantee you. I think police or security may have been able to do the blanket thing, but they may not have. I mean, do you have any idea how cramped those rooms are? Depending on the unit, he may have been in a four person room. I've had trouble getting around beds, chairs, etc. just to fill water glasses. I'm not going to bet my life on the idea that I could quickly get to someone and get a knife out of their hands. But, even if they could have done that, I just don't think you should get to bitch about a little bruise or two after you pulled a weapon on a nurse and refused to give it up to the cops. That's a pretty minor consequence to some majorly bad behavior.
