Committee recommends less-homework policy

Praxius

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http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...sb_homework_policy_080402/20080403?hub=Canada

Toronto District School Board committee has voted in favour of a report that limits the amount of homework teachers can assign.

The committee members voted to support the "family-friendly" policy on Wednesday night. The proposal has three recommendations:
  • Students shouldn't be penalized for handing in assignments late or incomplete
  • Students shouldn't be assigned homework on scheduled holidays or other significant days
  • The amount of workload should be broken down by grade: Those in Grades 1 to 6 should only get reading assignments, those in Grades 7 and 8 should get no more than one hour of homework a night and high school students should get no more than two hours.
"This is a moderately balanced approach, but at the end of the day it's a family-friendly motion, a family-friendly policy that will support students and ensure that they will do their homework but at reasonable times and (be given) a reasonable amount," trustee Josh Matlow said after the vote.

Matlow, who brought forward the proposal more than a year ago, says studies indicate homework at an early age is redundant.

When asked about the concerns over not penalizing students for incomplete assignments, Matlow said there is a difference between a penalty and a consequence.

"We need to teach kids time management skills and the importance of meeting deadlines .... however, what we're telling teachers though -- and many teachers already do this but many teachers also don't -- is sit down with the child and understand what's happening," the trustee told CTV Toronto at noon.

"Some children might have family challenges, some might simply be struggling with the workload or understanding what they've been asked to do, and we need to first work with them."

Matlow said teachers can still use their current methods of discipline, such as taking off marks, forbidding a student from attending a school event or keeping the child after school.

The homework policy report comes before a full board meeting in two weeks for a final vote.

If the policies pass, they could be implemented by the start of the fall school year.

There shouldn't be homework period... if they want to teach them about real life and work etc.... then don't give them homework. Most jobs don't give you a crap load of work to do when you go home and then expect you to not get paid for it, so why should kids waste their lives with this crap when they should be doing other things?
 

MikeyDB

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Sorry Praxius we disagee on this issue.

Homework teaches time management, self-reliance and a whole slew of other worthwhile skills. Many people have jobs that require them to upgrade skills and acquire new skill-sets and knowledge as the work environment changes. We don't expect nor grant children the authority to make critical decisions, we as parents have a responsibility to make decisions and judgments on their behalf. Partly this is because they lack the experience and sufficient immediate information to make an informed decision and homework although "school-related" reinforces the perception that learning takes place not only in school but througout a lifetime.

Expectations are what the world of employment is all about after all and if we fail to provice a means whereby the student/child is given a non-critical opportunity to experience the pressure of expecting work to be performed that meets critical criteria we do them a disservice.
 

Praxius

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Sorry Praxius we disagee on this issue.

Fair enough.

Homework teaches time management, self-reliance and a whole slew of other worthwhile skills.

Which they already learn in class with various periods, recess, tests, exams, assignments, etc. If you are late for class, what happens? When you are late at work or with a project for a client, what happens?

Many people have jobs that require them to upgrade skills and acquire new skill-sets and knowledge as the work environment changes.

And most pay for these couses to update their employees.... at least the ones I worked for. It is in their best interests. For myself, if I want to learn something extra on my own outside of the training/seminars/trade shows, that is my choice.

We don't expect nor grant children the authority to make critical decisions,

I do. The sooner the better.

we as parents have a responsibility to make decisions and judgments on their behalf.

Agreed, but what that is in paticular varies from family to family.

Partly this is because they lack the experience and sufficient immediate information to make an informed decision and homework although "school-related" reinforces the perception that learning takes place not only in school but througout a lifetime.

Sorry, I never needed homework to tell me this.... my house burns down at 9 years of age, my critical thinking tells me to get my ass out of the house before I die. I didn't have time to wait for someone to tell me what to do. That is something parents should teach their kids as young as possible, and doing 5 different homework assignments which take an hour each from each class you take doesn't teach you this, it teaches you that you have no life. And sorry, but life isn't all about work and money.

Expectations are what the world of employment is all about after all and if we fail to provice (Provide) a means whereby the student/child is given a non-critical opportunity to experience the pressure of expecting work to be performed that meets critical criteria we do them a disservice.

And coming from a son of a teacher who's been teaching since '74, who's also the rep of the teacher's union of his district, myself a student rep in college, student educator in the same college, and an after hours computer class monitor responsible for three classrooms in another college whereby I helped various other students with their assignments/projects..... one thing I learned over the years is that homework doesn't help anybody.

A student is forced to work on assignments outside of the environment in which it relates, during time in which they require to eat, rest and socialize with their peers and family, causes them to not only lose interest in what they are supposed to be doing, is burns them out in concentration of those subjects, they are only doing what they need to get done and do not absorb what is required.

Some jobs may expect you to take work home with you and work more..... that's their loss for taking such a job and bending over backwards being taken for granted. Most jobs do not force you to do this.

This is also why there is a labour board and regulations in the real world for people and companies to follow. Certain amount of breaks are required, safety proceedures are to be followed and worker's rights are needed to be met. some jobs are 6 hours.... some are 8, others can be 12, depending on what you do. School is on average an 8 or so time frame per day. Breaks are issued and assignments are passed out to work on. Due dates are also issued for these things, not just homework. Studies have shown that homework issued out has increased a lot over the years and now takes up most of their time after school. Heck, I remember when I was a kid I never got all my homework done, because I just didn't have enough time afterwards to complete it all. Before I knew it I was spending an extra hour or two past my bed time to try and finish it, then I'd be burnt out the next day, lose marks for incompleted work and then not have the concentration requried to concentrate on the stuff taught in class.... then it'd repeat.

People wonder why the overall SAT's and such in the country are dropping each year. It is because students are losing interest, don't care, stressed out, and it's because most of their lives are taken up by one thing, even outside of the normal time frame.

In the real world, how is one supposed to raise a functioning family that cares about one another when the parents are constantly out on business trips or need to finish that deal before the deadline during their personal time outside of work? This process doesn't work and is unhealthy. Children don't get the required attention from their parents, they go unchecked, and as important as homework may seem, so too is socialization outside of the school environment and so is family time. If school is supposed to represent and prepare them for the real world, then it should act like it.
 
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MikeyDB

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Praxius

Like I said, I disagree and don't really thing the topic is worth all that much energy to discuss. Homework never harmed anyone. Too much free-time at the mall has. As a youngster I lived for a few years on a farm and the day began at 5 AM. Chores and work until breakfast at eight then off on my bicycle to town to catch the bus to school. Reverse the whole thing in the evening of course... Homework was something I got finished betwen bus stops and riding to and from school. But I don't think my spirit or my experience suffered a great deal from doing homework.
 

Praxius

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Yes, but also don't forget, you're basing this on when you were a kid (Not sure of your age) I'm basing my side on 10 years ago when I was in grade 12. I've found that more homework is being assigned today, more so then even when I was in school not that long ago.

You worked/lived on a farm, I delt with the 5am/6am military and my mom's side of the family was farm/fisherman, so I know about the long hours in a day as a kid.... my references towards what you called "experience and spirit" was related to those jobs you spoke of where they ask more from you then they are paying you and what affect this has on today's families.

As it goes for homework and kids today, I'm not saying it screws them up to oblivion that they can not function, but the majority are not sucessfully absorbing what they are supposed to, and if they're not learning what they are supposed to be learning from these things, then what's the point?

What happens when these kids take up a sport, sea/army/air cadets, or some other hobby after school and homework takes up most of the night that they can only do one or the other?

fyi: I wasn't a mall rat either.... that too is a parenting thing, and homework isn't a preventative measure of avoiding their loitering ways. (Once again, a family time issue.) If your kids are wasting all their time hanging around a mall, then there's something wrong.
 

MikeyDB

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Man you will try to breathe life into this thread won't you...:)

Today downtown I see kids laying on park benches playing video games, texting their "circle" with what I'm willing to bet are inane bits of mental detritus that passes for "communication with my homies"....

If they've got time for Playstation and X-Box, they've got time for a little homework....
 

Praxius

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lol.... yet I did most of the same, and I ended up taking graphic design, interactive multimedia and animation.... currently working in the sign/advertisement industry... homework let alone anything I learned in school helped me along with any of this. What did was my own personal education in the arts I took on my own time, because I was interested. I did what I needed to graduate and nothing more, because it wasn't interesting, nor did I find much of it educational in what I wanted to go into.

That doesn't mean I wasn't a good instructor or educator when I was working in those fields. I was told I explained things a lot clearer and easier then the instructors. As stated before, homework did squat and was a waste of time personally for me and for others I knew.

Those kids playing on their tech will be the next generation of minds such as myself..... now isn't that scary? :p

But seriously we've stated our opinions... not much more to say.

To each their own.
 

Tonington

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There shouldn't be homework period... if they want to teach them about real life and work etc.... then don't give them homework. Most jobs don't give you a crap load of work to do when you go home and then expect you to not get paid for it, so why should kids waste their lives with this crap when they should be doing other things?

Umm, I gotta disagree here. Maybe not all jobs require extra hours of work, for no pay. But many do. Better to get accustomed to that possibility, rather than have it sprung on you after your scholastics are finished.

What about University? Should we have no homework? The recommended amount of time to spend on work at home is something like ten hours per course, every week. That's on top of class time. I'm in four classes this semester. All told, that would be 62 hours including labs, lectures, and recommended readings/home work.Not all students spend that much time. I don't, I don't need to. But then again I'm not anal about chasing two donuts on my marks.

Besides the point, homework is valuable as independent learning. It is valuable, because not all jobs simply end as bankers hours do. I don't know for certain, but I suspect many bankers probably don't even work banker's hours. Sometimes a task has to be completed. There may be something which needs to be dealt with, and for some jobs, that means extra pay. For others it doesn't. Perhaps it's not fair. But that's life, such as it is.

I don't think society needs an excuse to be an lazier than we have already become.
 

Niflmir

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This recommendation was largely motivated by a study by statistics Canada that came out about a year ago. Here is a summary of it.

Long story short, your average Canadian teen isn't "learning" how to work hard, they are on average working as hard or harder than an adult with a full time job - but without any pay. During this time of important physical and mental development, 64% of students are cutting back on sleep in order to meet commitments which grant no reward beyond the promise of education. Homework is never new material, since in some sense you must already know how to do it, so arguing that it is educational is slightly facetious.

I have tutored many people, sat down with them and pushed them to ensure that they would pass their tests. To do this I generally had them do more of the same work they were taught, I never allowed myself the illusion that they were learning something from it. No, my intent was to make them solve the type of problems that they would be tested on over and over again. This way when they saw it, it would come naturally. But that is not education, that is the art of perfecting an acquired skill, if only temporarily in some cases.
 

mapleleafs67

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institutional buildings like school should only be used for socialization.If you want your kids taught something then buy them a computer and let them find the information online.
 

Praxius

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Speaking of mathimatical problems, besides adding, subtracting, muliplication, devision and some basic measurment study.... wtf is the point of all the other crap you're taught?

Calculus, Pre-Cal? If a boat leaves port at 6:01am at 34kmh to Boston and the water current shifts the angle of the boats direction by 3.245 degrees counter-clockwise.... what is the circumference of the hypotenuse of Pi if the water temprature decreases by X = or < then 24?

WTF? Give me the damn pipe, you smoked yourself retarded! Who gives a rats ass? It'll get there when it gets there.

Helps improve problem solving skills? No.... The movie series SAW teaches you problem solving skills... Math is a waste of time and puts you to sleep beyond the basics.... and I use math on an everyday basis.
 

karrie

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There should definitely be limits put upon the homework burden.

That, or people better shut the ___ up about the obesity epidemic.

One or the other, but we don't get it both ways.

If my grade two kid has to spend almost 2 hours a night doing homework, that leaves her no time to go out with friends and get some exercise. It leaves the family little time to do anything together except stress. If she ends up a fat, sick little ball of stress by 10, then what right does society have to complain or criticize? All because her teachers decide that she needs to be ahead of some other stressed kids in some other country. Give me a break. There are more important areas of 'education' than just the book learning.

How about educating teachers on the importance of family life? The necessity of time for one's sanity?

Piling the homework on a grade 2'er doesn't teach them a damn thing about time management. It doesn't make them smarter. It makes them more tired and more stressed, and more fed up with school than any generation before them.

I've sent notes to school saying, flat out 'NO' to some of the homework that comes home.

*sigh*
 

Praxius

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There should definitely be limits put upon the homework burden.

That, or people better shut the ___ up about the obesity epidemic.

One or the other, but we don't get it both ways.

If my grade two kid has to spend almost 2 hours a night doing homework, that leaves her no time to go out with friends and get some exercise. It leaves the family little time to do anything together except stress. If she ends up a fat, sick little ball of stress by 10, then what right does society have to complain or criticize? All because her teachers decide that she needs to be ahead of some other stressed kids in some other country. Give me a break. There are more important areas of 'education' than just the book learning.

How about educating teachers on the importance of family life? The necessity of time for one's sanity?

Piling the homework on a grade 2'er doesn't teach them a damn thing about time management. It doesn't make them smarter. It makes them more tired and more stressed, and more fed up with school than any generation before them.

I've sent notes to school saying, flat out 'NO' to some of the homework that comes home.

*sigh*

That's what I'm talking about and good for you to be doing that for your kids. When you think about the amount of time they spend waking up in the morning, getting ready for school, grabbing their lunches, heading on the bus or getting dropped off by parents as they head off to work, the time they spend throughout the day in school, then waiting after school to be picked up by their parents or to be driven home on the bus, then eat something quickly...... chances are it's already close to 7pm before they have a chance to crack open the hours of work issued to them for homework.

By the time they're done of their homework required to be finished for the next day, what time would it be on average? Usually well after 9pm. Does that give them time to go out and visit friends or just sit back and think for themselves for once? Nope... cuz now they have to get ready for bed for the next day of school and the next load of homework issued for the next night.

Their entire day revolves around the school and what is required of them for the next day. When I work, I go in, I do everything to the best of my ability during the time I am scheduled to work and when it's time to go home, I go home. I leave my work and any stress from that day behind at work. I'll be damned if I will ever take up some friggin job where they make me work all day, then hand be a bunch of crap to do after work on my own free time, then rush to get that all done, only to expect more the next day after work.

If that is how the company works and they require you to take work home afterwards, then the company is at fault and their management needs to be revamped. A properly functioning company who wants to be sucessful and have stressfree employees wouldn't need any extra time after their typical work day to get their work done. They either need to get their processes reviewed and optiminzed to save time during the day, or they need to hire more people for their workload so that it gets done on time.

Same with schools.... they either teach them properly what they need to learn during school time, or they need to look at what and how they are teaching these kids and why it's not working that they require homework every night.

Perhaps the reason why they have to issue homework all the time is because they're not getting what they are being taught easily during the school time. If they're not getting the information easily during school time, why is that? Possibly because they've spent their entire day the day before trying to absorb what they were told then and trying to keep that all in their heads. But why did they have a problem trying to absorb all that information from the day before? Possibly because they spent the entire day before that doing the exact same thing with all the information they're told to learn and finish the day before that..... and so on and so forth. Eventually, they're just not going to care or pay attention to the information and just highlight the main points from their books and fill them in when they can..... that's not learning.... that's just getting past what was given to you faster. I did this myself plenty of times.

Now sure, when you think of this in a work environment, it's proabably managible because you're employed to do one paticular thing each day in which you specialize in. But kids have their brains scattered all over the place as is, let alone throwing several classes of education on them each night to keep all in their heads all the time. I had 6-7 different classes each day I went to and learned from.... fair enough..... but then I have 6-7 sets of 30-60 mins of homework from each I had to continue working on afterwards..... thus I have to keep all that in my head constantly until I am done with my homework later that night.

No wonder why kids hate school. No wonder why I hated school so much. I bet that if I only dealt with it like a job, where I worked on things given to me only in the time I was there, then I might have enjoyed school more and I might have hung onto more of the information longer.

I just couldn't wait until I was out of school, from all the BS, from all the petty and useless assignments which had nothing to relate to the real world and from all the arseholes I went to school with. I don't remember very much from my time in school and besides the basics, none of it is useful for everyday life, and one could probably sum up an entire education time a kid goes through down to about 8 grades instead of 12 (Not including post secondary) But everything I am doing now, I didn't need 90% of the crap taught in high school, let alone the homework that came with it.

In a nut shell, the time spent on home work could be used for far better things in life.
 

Praxius

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Umm, I gotta disagree here. Maybe not all jobs require extra hours of work, for no pay. But many do. Better to get accustomed to that possibility, rather than have it sprung on you after your scholastics are finished.

One can be warned about this in 5 mins of explination and shouldn't require 12 years of continual BS to fill out after hours. Those companies as mentioned in the above post of mine are ill-equipped for their time management and are not optimized with their time available in the day and that is their fault, not the employee's. If the employee is just slow and lazy then that's a different subject.

But if I had to do the job I am doing now for 8 or more hours a day and then given 3 or 4 more hours of crap to do when I went home, someone would be shot..... but an easier solution would be me flying the hell off and living in the forest somewhere.... My life is the experience LIFE, not work my ass off until I die for someone else. If you feel that is what life is, go for it.... I'll decide for myself. I would much rather make up my own words and lessons to live by, rather then spend my entire life reading and doing what others tell me and dictate to me.... what the hell kind of life is that, seriously?

What about University? Should we have no homework? The recommended amount of time to spend on work at home is something like ten hours per course, every week. That's on top of class time. I'm in four classes this semester. All told, that would be 62 hours including labs, lectures, and recommended readings/home work.Not all students spend that much time. I don't, I don't need to. But then again I'm not anal about chasing two donuts on my marks.

That is also why I went to college over university.... I compared the two and for the costs, the time wasted in both and everything.... I got the same level of education in my field for less money, in one year, with full hour days and the availability to go in after hours if need be.... compared to what my cousin went through.... spending a short period of time listening to some professor, doing countless hours of reading and writting, for four years or more..... not to mention there were days in the week where he had no classes (Time which could have been used for more teaching)

In the end, it was the hands-on education and experience in college I preferred over listening to someone lecture me and then issue me hours of friggin reading and writting on my own time. If I wanted to read pages and pages of information and have very little class time and interaction with an instructor or professor, I'd google the information and read it own my own, saving myself time and money. But to each their own.

Besides the point, homework is valuable as independent learning. It is valuable, because not all jobs simply end as bankers hours do. I don't know for certain, but I suspect many bankers probably don't even work banker's hours. Sometimes a task has to be completed. There may be something which needs to be dealt with, and for some jobs, that means extra pay. For others it doesn't. Perhaps it's not fair. But that's life, such as it is.

If something needs to be done because it is behind schedule or something, fine.... heck I spend time afterwards once in a while doing that too. But when a job hands you a bunch of extra crap to do after work in which you should be doing it the next day, I have a problem with that and that is what homework is.

I don't think society needs an excuse to be an lazier than we have already become.

Which came first? Egg or Chicken? Which has caused our society to be more lazy? Not enough to do, or too much to do to be bothered??