Phil McDowell is one of
about 150 U.S. Army
deserters living in
Toronto.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080325/war_deserter_080325/20080325?hub=Canada
U.S. soldiers seeking refugee status in Canada
- Thread starter Praxius
- Start date
Phil McDowell is one of
about 150 U.S. Army
deserters living in
Toronto.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080325/war_deserter_080325/20080325?hub=Canada
They signed a contract to join the US Military and that was that. We don't get to pick where we go. It was voluntary. Send them back so they can go to prison and get their dishonorable discharges then they can live their happy lives.
The guy probably doesn't want it known he wets the bed (er cot)
These doobies usually signed up to get free education thinking it would be a flybye... wrong.
There are always arts and crafts duties in Nelson B.C. which may suit this frail fellow.
These doobies usually signed up to get free education thinking it would be a flybye... wrong.
There are always arts and crafts duties in Nelson B.C. which may suit this frail fellow.
"...McDowell served a one-year tour of duty in Iraq, and was then discharged from the army. But not long after, he was told he would have to rejoin the army and be sent back to Iraq. This time, he didn't want to go...."
If he was DISCHARGED, even under US law, the contract period has terminated. Besides, would you want someone watching your six whose heart wasn't on the job?
Woof!
If he was DISCHARGED, even under US law, the contract period has terminated. Besides, would you want someone watching your six whose heart wasn't on the job?
Woof!
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I thought you could refuse to 'step forward'. You might suffer some verbal abuse but you can't be forced to step forward. It isn't an order, as you aren't under their authority.
Better have the cash to repay those loans though or they could use that against you down the road. When you say "Am I free to go?" enough times they will eventually let you go.
I probably wouldnt want this guy watching my back. There are no contracts where you do one year and then get out either.
To my knowledge, all contracts carry a reserve commitment. The reserve commitment if you served 4 years of active duty is 4 years in the Inactive Ready Reserve (IRR). In the IRR you do not have to go to monthly drills, or musters. BUT, you are subject to recall, or involuntary mobilization.
This would have been very carefully explained to him, because Recruiters do not enjoy having the contracts they write up on these people voided because of fraudulent or undisclosed items.
Everyone who joins knows this. If they say they didn't know, they are lying.
By the way, don't send him back, you guys can have him.
If he was discharged from the Army after his one year tour - they have no claim on him and I have no idea why he ran away to Canada unless he is trying to make a point.
Generally the military commitment is more than a "one year tour" - I think the story has
been fudged up to serve his agenda which obviously is against military service. If he was an objector in a more honest sense of the word - he could have served in another posting as there is U.S. military in many other areas without violent conflict.
Oops I see Thomaska has written the same....sorry for duplication of thought
Generally the military commitment is more than a "one year tour" - I think the story has
been fudged up to serve his agenda which obviously is against military service. If he was an objector in a more honest sense of the word - he could have served in another posting as there is U.S. military in many other areas without violent conflict.
Oops I see Thomaska has written the same....sorry for duplication of thought
And in that contract it isn't just one way. The US Military and government broke the law... international law at that... the contract is null and void imo. To continue and fight in an illegal war... a war of agression of all things, they under plain human rights should be able to refuse action and contributing to the suffering of a forign people who pose no relative threat to their friends, family or nation.
Keep them here in Canada? Sure why not? If more soldiers were to use the damn brains that they were born with such as this guy, rather then just being a dumb ass foot soldier "Following orders" blindly to whatever they are told to do, we'd probably have a lot less crap to deal with in this world today.
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Why don't you just check out the website and maybe ask the guy instead of condemning him based on your own prejudices? Seems to me, he served a tour in a war zone. Why force him for more? Even in Vietnam US military didn't do that.
Woof!
Woof!
Also one has to see the details in why he might have been discharged "Early" as some may see it. Maybe he was actually discharged and then someone higher up decided that wasn't a good idea and wanted to drag his ass back through it all since they're low on recruitment.
Either way, his explination sounds plausable and that does sorta sound like the US Military's mentality towards treating their soldiers and what few rights they have left to their name.
And regardless of how many times someone says "You joing the military, you do what you're told, that's it" ~ It isn't.... Joining up with the military is not a free wild card for the government to do whatever they damn please with you. If they're going to make you do something illegal, you can choose to refuse and to fight it. If you go ahead with it, just claiming you were following orders won't save your ass, as most likely they'll say you were going through PTSD and don't know what you're talking about, then you're off to jail anyways.
I mean if I'm going to get killed or if I am going to goto jail, I'd at least rather those occur for the right reasons, not because some clown with some stripes and stars on his arm tells me to. Every action you make in life, you must live with until you die. This guy knows he may never be able to step back into the US to see his friends and family.... where he grew up as a child..... I think this guy understands very clearly what sacrafice is.... he also seems to know a thing or two about principles and I like the fact that he won't give his principles up.
Either way, his explination sounds plausable and that does sorta sound like the US Military's mentality towards treating their soldiers and what few rights they have left to their name.
And regardless of how many times someone says "You joing the military, you do what you're told, that's it" ~ It isn't.... Joining up with the military is not a free wild card for the government to do whatever they damn please with you. If they're going to make you do something illegal, you can choose to refuse and to fight it. If you go ahead with it, just claiming you were following orders won't save your ass, as most likely they'll say you were going through PTSD and don't know what you're talking about, then you're off to jail anyways.
I mean if I'm going to get killed or if I am going to goto jail, I'd at least rather those occur for the right reasons, not because some clown with some stripes and stars on his arm tells me to. Every action you make in life, you must live with until you die. This guy knows he may never be able to step back into the US to see his friends and family.... where he grew up as a child..... I think this guy understands very clearly what sacrafice is.... he also seems to know a thing or two about principles and I like the fact that he won't give his principles up.
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BINGO!
Exactly what I was going to say............
the Vietnam era was different......then there was a draft, although I would much more respect a "resistor" that simply refused, and did his prison time, instead of running away.
These guys need to be booted the hell out of my country ASAP.
Praxius, I am not a fan of the Iraq mess but it seems to me that he signed up for this voluntarily, he served a year then he was recalled from reserves?
Regardless of what the UN thinks, non-binding declarations have no bearing on contracts pertaining to US soldiers. The war may be wrong, but soldiers don't get to pick their battles.
Regardless of what the UN thinks, non-binding declarations have no bearing on contracts pertaining to US soldiers. The war may be wrong, but soldiers don't get to pick their battles.
I think his reasoning for running to Canada is a lot less noble than he is trying to have everyone believe.
But whatever...
Hell, I'd respect him more if he were just honest and said he was scared ****less of getting killed.
But hiding behind his "illegal war" b.s. story makes him look silly, and cheapens the cause for people who are actually pacifists, or anti-war.
But whatever...
Hell, I'd respect him more if he were just honest and said he was scared ****less of getting killed.
But hiding behind his "illegal war" b.s. story makes him look silly, and cheapens the cause for people who are actually pacifists, or anti-war.
Carrot on a string incentives don't work when the sucker figures out the game. A tour of duty used to be payment enough to begin trades training or OCS. If front line fodder is getting that hard to keep, wouldn't you think the tarnished old brass on the top of the dungpile would figure there's a problem?
It does seem like he's going about drawing attention in all the wrong ways.
Woof!
It does seem like he's going about drawing attention in all the wrong ways.
Woof!
Thomaska. I take it that you think it is a legal war and that the U.S. was fully justified in it's bombing and invasion of Iraq. The world has fought several major wars because other countries, like Germany, and North Korea have done just that. Now the shoe is on the other foot. I'm not a pacifist. I served in our air force for five years during the cold war. but I can understand a soldier would not want to be part of that clusterf--k in Iraq, again.
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Like it has been pointed out in other posts your commitment to the military goes further than your active service. I served 4 years active and 4 years inactive. Inactive meant that at any time during those 4 years labeled inactive the Marines could have called me back. It says so right there in the contract. This contract is not sercretive and it is actually very simple to understand.
Another thing is this...you are not fully discharged until you complete your whole service time. Although I was relieved of active service I did not get my discharge papers until 4 years later. I received and honorable discharge in the mail four years after I was relieved from active service. So...no matter what he states...he was not discharged.
Whether he was discharged or not, the man has already earned combat chops. Why would it be so hard for a grateful nation to recognize that and thank him with a trade or service in another theatre?
Woof!