Mass'Debator
Posts: 4,282 
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
January 31st, 2008, 10:35 AM
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/0...sh-harper.html
Even if Harper and his crew still want to stay in past 2009 without the requests met, the rest of the parties will jump on the chance to make sure we don't..... so we're either going to get what we need, or we leave.
Makes sense, considdering for the last number of years we've bitched and moaned for more support and nobody stepped up. Well they best now, or toodles.
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/0...sh-harper.html
Quote:
Well they have until this spring to get their asses in order or we're apparently gone. Prime Minister Stephen Harper has told U.S. President George W. Bush that Canada will not continue its mission in Afghanistan beyond 2009 without more troops and equipment.
The two leaders spoke on Wednesday about the future of the Afghan mission and ways to "ensure its continued success."
Harper informed Bush of his broad support for recommendations made by John Manley's independent panel, which reviewed the mission and suggested Canada remain in Afghanistan after next February only with the support of more NATO soldiers and equipment.
"The President noted the deployment of 3,200 additional U.S. Marines to Afghanistan, as well as his continued commitment to work with NATO to enhance its commitment to the Afghanistan mission," White House deputy press secretary Tony Fratto said in a statement.
The U.S. announced earlier this month that it will deploy an additional 3,200 marines to southern Afghanistan beginning this spring. But U.S. Defence Secretary Robert Gates has said they will not provide Canada with the support the country is seeking.
Gates said he will put pressure on NATO to provide more soldiers in order to bolster war efforts in Afghanistan's turbulent south.
NATO acknowledged Wednesday the need for more troops in southern Afghanistan, but denied that it was not working hard enough to provide the additional support.
"Canada has played and continues to play a very important role in a strategically important part of Afghanistan and we would like to see that role continue," NATO spokesman James Appathurai said in Brussels, according to a Reuters report.
"Certainly NATO will, to the extent that we can, support any efforts to garner more forces, including for the south. We have a long-standing request to nations to provide additional resources."
The House of Commons is expected to vote on Canada's future in Afghanistan this spring.
The two leaders spoke on Wednesday about the future of the Afghan mission and ways to "ensure its continued success."
Harper informed Bush of his broad support for recommendations made by John Manley's independent panel, which reviewed the mission and suggested Canada remain in Afghanistan after next February only with the support of more NATO soldiers and equipment.
"The President noted the deployment of 3,200 additional U.S. Marines to Afghanistan, as well as his continued commitment to work with NATO to enhance its commitment to the Afghanistan mission," White House deputy press secretary Tony Fratto said in a statement.
The U.S. announced earlier this month that it will deploy an additional 3,200 marines to southern Afghanistan beginning this spring. But U.S. Defence Secretary Robert Gates has said they will not provide Canada with the support the country is seeking.
Gates said he will put pressure on NATO to provide more soldiers in order to bolster war efforts in Afghanistan's turbulent south.
NATO acknowledged Wednesday the need for more troops in southern Afghanistan, but denied that it was not working hard enough to provide the additional support.
"Canada has played and continues to play a very important role in a strategically important part of Afghanistan and we would like to see that role continue," NATO spokesman James Appathurai said in Brussels, according to a Reuters report.
"Certainly NATO will, to the extent that we can, support any efforts to garner more forces, including for the south. We have a long-standing request to nations to provide additional resources."
The House of Commons is expected to vote on Canada's future in Afghanistan this spring.
Even if Harper and his crew still want to stay in past 2009 without the requests met, the rest of the parties will jump on the chance to make sure we don't..... so we're either going to get what we need, or we leave.
Makes sense, considdering for the last number of years we've bitched and moaned for more support and nobody stepped up. Well they best now, or toodles.
sick and twisted
Posts: 2,537
Location: Backwater, Ontario.
Location: Backwater, Ontario.
January 31st, 2008, 12:23 PM
Because, Cretien, for whatever his faults, didn't have his nose firmly ensconsed in Bush's asshole, and was able to do a bit of thinking for himself, and did not let us get sucked into the "coalition of the stupid".
And that, Blackleaf, is why.
Quoting Blackleaf
It's ironic that Canada wants support from other countries in Afghanistan when Canada gave no support to those countries that went to war in Iraq.
Because, Cretien, for whatever his faults, didn't have his nose firmly ensconsed in Bush's asshole, and was able to do a bit of thinking for himself, and did not let us get sucked into the "coalition of the stupid".
And that, Blackleaf, is why.
Mass'Debator
Posts: 4,282
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
January 31st, 2008, 12:24 PM
Quoting Blackleaf
Iraq wasn't our war to join into to begin with. They should be lucky we're fighting in Afghanistan.... hell, they should be thankful we're not pulling the same stunts as some other NATO nations who not allowing themselves to fight, but rather just browse around the controlled areas, picking up 5 dolla sucky sucky.
It's ironic that Canada wants support from other countries in Afghanistan when Canada gave no support to those countries that went to war in Iraq.
Mass'Debator
Posts: 4,282
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
January 31st, 2008, 12:31 PM
Quoting Nuggler
His fault was that Bush didn't bother to take the time to learn his name.... that alone would be a deal breaker right there. If you can't remember or pronounce my name, why should I goto war with you?
Because, Cretien, for whatever his faults, didn't have his nose firmly ensconsed in Bush's asshole, and was able to do a bit of thinking for himself, and did not let us get sucked into the "coalition of the stupid".
And that, Blackleaf, is why.
And that, Blackleaf, is why.
Executive Member
Posts: 9,534
January 31st, 2008, 12:50 PM
Afghanistan is a pipeline war.
Afghanistan is a pipeline war.
Quote:
http://tinyurl.com/39o7yv
Echoing the report, Clinton's Energy Secretary Bill Richardson, explained, "We've made a substantial political investment in the Caspian, and it's very important to us that both the pipeline map and the politics come out right." (6)
Except, curiously, Richardson said this in connection with US threats to bomb Yugoslavia, just months before the first NATO bombs began to rain down on Belgrade, Novi Sad and Nis.
So, what does the Caspian have to do with the Balkans?
The answer, it seems, is a pipeline, to carry the "black gold" Farish is fascinated by, that comes from a region Cheney says has emerged quickly to become strategically significant. One planned pipeline route would see oil from the Caspian transit the Balkans into Europe, bypassing Russia.
Except, curiously, Richardson said this in connection with US threats to bomb Yugoslavia, just months before the first NATO bombs began to rain down on Belgrade, Novi Sad and Nis.
So, what does the Caspian have to do with the Balkans?
The answer, it seems, is a pipeline, to carry the "black gold" Farish is fascinated by, that comes from a region Cheney says has emerged quickly to become strategically significant. One planned pipeline route would see oil from the Caspian transit the Balkans into Europe, bypassing Russia.
Mass'Debator
Posts: 4,282
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
January 31st, 2008, 03:08 PM
Quoting mbryant26
They sure did... which is why we should be fighting those truly responsible, rather then just a country picked at random because they hold the most Taliban and the US wants a Pipeline there (which the Taliban didn't allow)
I'm sure canada's 3600 troops are really making dent in the war.....I fought for the U.S. and i know people bitch and moan that it's not our war to fight, bull****, canadians died on September 11th too.
Member
Posts: 159
Location: U.S.
Location: U.S.
January 31st, 2008, 03:18 PM
The us dont want their pipeline. Afghanistan is where Osama was at, and Taliban keep stepping it up there. We are pulling 30,000 troops out of Iraq every 6 months. We are actually decresing the size, but you dotn see any newspaper spresding that anywhere.
The us dont want their pipeline. Afghanistan is where Osama was at, and Taliban keep stepping it up there. We are pulling 30,000 troops out of Iraq every 6 months. We are actually decresing the size, but you dotn see any newspaper spresding that anywhere.
Council Member
Posts: 1,784
Location: BC
Location: BC
January 31st, 2008, 03:55 PM
Afghanistan was more justified in that it was self defense. We were right to help the USA in that war. Now our troops should come home that the USA is up to it's slimy dirty tricks again. I am referring to the BBC report that the USA made a deal with AQ and the Taliban instead of sending more troops and doing the right thing. The USA let bin Laden "escape" to Pakistan and we should bring our boys home - it's their problem now.
Quoting Blackleaf
The Iraq war is imperialism. It was illegal and encouraged through lies and deceptions. It is wrong and immoral.
It's ironic that Canada wants support from other countries in Afghanistan when Canada gave no support to those countries that went to war in Iraq.
Afghanistan was more justified in that it was self defense. We were right to help the USA in that war. Now our troops should come home that the USA is up to it's slimy dirty tricks again. I am referring to the BBC report that the USA made a deal with AQ and the Taliban instead of sending more troops and doing the right thing. The USA let bin Laden "escape" to Pakistan and we should bring our boys home - it's their problem now.
Member
Posts: 159
Location: U.S.
Location: U.S.
January 31st, 2008, 04:08 PM
I fought in Iraq, I work for the U.S. government now, and I'll be the first one to admit that Iraq was bad, but taking saddam out wasnt. But what everyone doesnt get is, if we leave now, that country will faulter worse than it is.
And to that other guy,...U.S. doesnt rely on canada imports,...40% comes from China. 60% of oil comes from saudi Arabia.
I fought in Iraq, I work for the U.S. government now, and I'll be the first one to admit that Iraq was bad, but taking saddam out wasnt. But what everyone doesnt get is, if we leave now, that country will faulter worse than it is.
And to that other guy,...U.S. doesnt rely on canada imports,...40% comes from China. 60% of oil comes from saudi Arabia.
Council Member
Posts: 1,784
Location: BC
Location: BC
January 31st, 2008, 04:15 PM
Quoting mbryant26
Hogwash! Either you believe in freedom and give these people the right to determine their own future or your an imperialist power trying to guide their future. Those are the two options if you manage to get rid of your double think. Freedom has a very high cost and what you have lost sight of is that the biggest cost is that sometimes you don't get what you want. All the US is doing now is ensuring it has a ME staging ground to continue it's domination and making sure that Bremer's policies stay in tact.
I fought in Iraq, I work for the U.S. government now, and I'll be the first one to admit that Iraq was bad, but taking saddam out wasnt. But what everyone doesnt get is, if we leave now, that country will faulter worse than it is.
Quote:
Domestic supply, I said domestic supply - nice try.
And to that other guy,...U.S. doesnt rely on canada imports,...40% comes from China. 60% of oil comes from saudi Arabia.
Mass'Debator
Posts: 4,282
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
February 1st, 2008, 09:37 AM
Although I agree the US mucked the whole thing up like they tend to do, we're there now, and I personally don't feel it would be right for us to just leave and abandon the people who want us there.
But reality is reality, and if we can not get the required troops and supplies requested, NATO itself will not win this war. And if we're not going to win the war... sticking it out for years to come isn't going to change it.
Quoting Scott Free
Agreed for the most part, except the Afghan population equation now in effect. It's not just the US, Al'Q and the Taliban's mess, but the people of Afghanistan are right in the middle of it all, and of course, so are we.
The Iraq war is imperialism. It was illegal and encouraged through lies and deceptions. It is wrong and immoral.
Afghanistan was more justified in that it was self defense. We were right to help the USA in that war. Now our troops should come home that the USA is up to it's slimy dirty tricks again. I am referring to the BBC report that the USA made a deal with AQ and the Taliban instead of sending more troops and doing the right thing. The USA let bin Laden "escape" to Pakistan and we should bring our boys home - it's their problem now.
Afghanistan was more justified in that it was self defense. We were right to help the USA in that war. Now our troops should come home that the USA is up to it's slimy dirty tricks again. I am referring to the BBC report that the USA made a deal with AQ and the Taliban instead of sending more troops and doing the right thing. The USA let bin Laden "escape" to Pakistan and we should bring our boys home - it's their problem now.
Although I agree the US mucked the whole thing up like they tend to do, we're there now, and I personally don't feel it would be right for us to just leave and abandon the people who want us there.
But reality is reality, and if we can not get the required troops and supplies requested, NATO itself will not win this war. And if we're not going to win the war... sticking it out for years to come isn't going to change it.
Mass'Debator
Posts: 4,282
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
February 1st, 2008, 09:46 AM
Because it was not your or your country's position to make that decision on another sovereign nation.
Taking Bush out wouldn't be a bad thing either, but it's not our position to do so.... it's the people of the US who are responsible for that. And besides, if we did, that would be a bit hyporcritical wouldn't it?
Their number one problem is the fact their are forign ocupiers on what they considder their holy land... ocupiers who are non-believers.... this has been the sole reasoning of why they've been picking your troops off one by one and why this will never end until you guys leave.
It might get worse after you leave, but that's expected. They will need to deal with their own country and how they want to run it, not how you guys want it to be run.
Think about it this way.... after the American Revolution came the American Civil War.... do the calculations and you may see that in most situations, even if the country was united over one thing, it will become devided through time over another.
Quoting mbryant26
Yes it was, and you want to know why?
I fought in Iraq, I work for the U.S. government now, and I'll be the first one to admit that Iraq was bad, but taking saddam out wasnt.
Because it was not your or your country's position to make that decision on another sovereign nation.
Taking Bush out wouldn't be a bad thing either, but it's not our position to do so.... it's the people of the US who are responsible for that. And besides, if we did, that would be a bit hyporcritical wouldn't it?
Quote:
No, the only reason why they're continually fighting is the mistrust from political party to the next, where one is arguing that the other is favoring US intentions and not what is important to the country of Iraq, causing continual mistrust, which leads to more blood shed between the factions.
But what everyone doesnt get is, if we leave now, that country will faulter worse than it is.
Their number one problem is the fact their are forign ocupiers on what they considder their holy land... ocupiers who are non-believers.... this has been the sole reasoning of why they've been picking your troops off one by one and why this will never end until you guys leave.
It might get worse after you leave, but that's expected. They will need to deal with their own country and how they want to run it, not how you guys want it to be run.
Think about it this way.... after the American Revolution came the American Civil War.... do the calculations and you may see that in most situations, even if the country was united over one thing, it will become devided through time over another.
Quote:
I never said this, but agreed most oil comes from the Middle East for the US. But the US is planning on shifting to milk Canada for all we're worth. Hopefully we still have a couple of brains in the government to see down the long road ahead.
And to that other guy,...U.S. doesnt rely on canada imports,...40% comes from China. 60% of oil comes from saudi Arabia.
