NATO aghast at U.S. criticism of Afghan allies

#juan

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NATO aghast at U.S. criticism of Afghan allies


PAUL AMES
Associated Press
January 16, 2008 at 1:49 PM EST

BRUSSELS — Some of American's closest NATO allies reacted with surprise and disbelief Wednesday to reported comments from Defence Secretary Robert Gates suggesting that their troops fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan are not up to the job.
The Dutch Defence Ministry summoned the U.S. ambassador for an explanation of a Los Angeles Times article that said Mr. Gates complained about soldiers from Canada, Britain and the Netherlands not knowing how to fight a guerrilla insurgency.
In Ottawa, the Liberal opposition demanded the Conservative government of Prime Minister Stephen Harper call in the U.S. ambassador to Canada — or seek direct clarification from Mr. Gates himself.
At the very least the comments smack of insensitivity in light of the death of a Canadian soldier north of Kandahar on Wendnesday, said defence critic Denis Coderre.
U.S. Defence Secretary Robert Gates. (Hyungwon Kang/Reuters)

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"We are paying the price in lives," he said. "Our men and women know how to fight. We need to know who he was talking about; which countries."
In Washington, Mr. Gates' spokesman Geoff Morrell said the secretary had "read the article and is disturbed by what he read."
Mr. Morrell did not challenge the accuracy of the quotes in the story, but said he thought it left the wrong impression — that Mr. Gates had singled out a particular country.
"For the record he did not — to the L.A. Times or at any time otherwise — publicly ever criticize any single country for their performance in or commitment to the mission in Afghanistan," Mr. Morrell told Pentagon reporters in Washington.
Instead, Mr. Morrell said Mr. Gates had pointed out that "NATO as an alliance, does not train for counterinsurgency. The alliance has never had to do it before."
In Britain, Conservative MP Patrick Mercer said Mr. Gates' reported comments were "bloody outrageous."
"I would beg the Americans to understand that we are their closest allies, and our men are bleeding and dying in large numbers," Mr. Mercer, a former British infantry officer, told The Associated Press.
"These sorts of things are just not helpful among allied nations."
The United States has regularly criticized Germany, France, Italy and other allies that refuse to allow their troops in Afghanistan to join U.S. forces on the front line against the Taliban in the insurgents' southern strongholds.
According to the LA Times, Mr. Gates raised doubts about countries that have sent significant numbers of combat troops to fight in the south, often in the face of widespread opposition at home.
"I'm worried we have some military forces that don't know how to do counterinsurgency operations," the paper quoted him as saying in an interview. "Most of the European forces, NATO forces, are not trained in counterinsurgency."
NATO's Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer moved quickly to defend the allied troops.
"All the countries that are in the south do an excellent job. Full stop," he told reporters at NATO headquarters.
Privately, several NATO officials were aghast at Mr. Gates' reported comments, fearing they would add to tension within the alliance where Britain, Canada and the Netherlands have generally stood by Washington in urging more reluctant allies to do more in the fight against the Taliban.
A senior military officer from one nation heavily engaged in the southern fighting said Canadians and Europeans had scored major successes against the Taliban. "They have been dealt a severe blow by the very people (Mr. Gates) appears to talking about," said the officer who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.
He acknowledged that some of NATO's smaller and newer members lacked counterinsurgency experience, but said that did not apply to the British and Canadians. The Dutch also defended their record combining counterinsurgency with reconstruction in the volatile southern province of Uruzgan.
"Our troops, men and women, are well-prepared for the mission," said Col. Nico Geerts, the Dutch commander in Uruzgan. "Everyone in the south, the British, the Canadians, the Romanians and our other allies, are working hard here. ... I wouldn't know what the secretary of defence of America is basing this on."
Mr. Gates reported comments were published the day after President George W. Bush authorized the deployment of 3,200 Marines to Afghanistan in April.
Most will be deployed in the south to strengthen NATO troops there ahead of an expected increase of Taliban activity with the spring snow thaw. U.S. officials expressed frustration that they were forced to send troops — already stretched in Iraq — because allies failed to offer reinforcements.
The new deployment will bring the total number of U.S. forces there to around 30,000, the highest level since the 2001 invasion. The U.S. has 14,000 troops with the 42,000-strong NATO-led force, the rest are training Afghan forces and hunting al-Qaeda terrorists.
In Washington, Rep. Duncan Hunter, ranking Republican on the Armed Services Committee of the U.S. House of Representatives, warned that Congress could restrict access to defence contracts for allies who did not pull their weight.
However, Britain, Canada, the Netherlands have a bigger proportion of their armed forces serving with the NATO force in Afghanistan than the United States. Britain with 7,753 troops, has 4 per cent of its military, compared with 1.1 per cent of U.S. armed forces serving with the NATO force.
British and Dutch officials refused to believe Mr. Gates' comment were aimed at them.
"Our people down there are pretty well trained in counterinsurgency," said retired Col. Richard Kemp, who commanded British forces in Afghanistan in 2003. "They have been carrying out some pretty intensive offensive operations against the Taliban, and they have been winning over the community. Counterinsurgency is a combination of those two things."
"We assume this was a misunderstanding," Dutch Defence Minister Eimert van Middelkoop told the Dutch broadcaster NOS. "This is not the Robert Gates we have come to know. It's also not the manner in which you treat each other when you have to co-operate with each other in the south of Afghanistan."
 

#juan

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Secretary of Defence Gates has the brains of a Gerbel.

It wouldn't surprise me if some countries pulled out of that phoney oil war. Who needs that kind of insult?
 

gerryh

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The comments don't surprise me at all......he's a god damn american.....it's to be expected.


What happens when you lobotomize a Canadian?

You end up with an american.
 

Praxius

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Gates complained about soldiers from Canada, Britain and the Netherlands not knowing how to fight a guerrilla insurgency.

Instead, Mr. Morrell said Mr. Gates had pointed out that "NATO as an alliance, does not train for counterinsurgency. The alliance has never had to do it before."

RRRrrrreeeaaallly now?!

Because you know, the US is doing ever so wonderfully in Iraq to point the finger.

Gates can take those pruny old dry lips of his and suck peanuts out of my arse.

I don't suppose this comes off to anybody else as yet another intentional method of destabalizing efforts? Everyone is bitching at the US for pulling off so many Air Strikes in Afghanistan and killing so many civilians, yet they remain justifying their tactics and keep doing it. Even though Canadian soldiers don't usually have that luxury.

By the way, exactly how many civilians have died at the hands of the US, compared to their useless allies?

Do those peanuts taste nutty for you Gates, Cuz you can keep on sucking.

Exactly what did he expect to improve by spouting off this trash?
 

dancing-loon

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Take a look at his portfolio:
http://www.defenselink.mil/bios/biographydetail.aspx?biographyid=115

I don't think anyone of those allies would seriously mess with him. "aye, aye Sir... we'll pull up our heels" will be the answer.
The Americans are getting impatient - it is taking too long to get over the final hump blocking the flow of oil and gas!!
I almost dare to bet that Canada will increase its troop numbers as a result of the criticism from Gates.
 

Praxius

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I doubt it. We've been the original complainers about others not doing anything over there and that we're already stretched for resources. If someway 5-10,000 troops were just being sent over because of this comment by Gates, that'd not only show we're liars and full of crap.... but it will also make you wonder where they hell those troops came from.
 

dancing-loon

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[FONT=Callisto MT,Georgia,Book Antiqua,Palatino,Times New Roman,Serif]The number of innocent civilians who have died as a result of U.S. military action in Afghanistan and Iraq is far greater than the number of those who died in the WTC attack. But, of course, since those killed by American firepower were not Americans, British or Australians, this is of no concern, except insofar as it might result in international condemnation, making it difficult to maintain the "international coalition" (the coalition of the willingly bribed) that the U.S. seeks to provide a fig-leaf for its planned military aggression against those countries that stand in the way of its global domination. And, by the way, such aggression and the collateral regional wars that it will cause in various parts of Asia will, of course, be good for U.S. arms manufacturers, and other American companies with friends in the U.S. government, which profit from war.[/FONT]
[FONT=Callisto MT,Georgia,Book Antiqua,Palatino,Times New Roman,Serif]And it's not just Middle Eastern oil — there are huge oil deposits in the Caspian Basin (larger than in Saudia Arabia). In 1998 John J. Maresca, vice-president of Unocal, testified before the House Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific that a pipeline across Afghanistan was crucial to transport Caspian Basin oil to the Indian Ocean. Bush and the American oil companies dearly wanted to lay such a pipeline across Afghanistan but they could not do so while the Taleban ruled Afghanistan because the Taleban demanded[/FONT]
[FONT=Callisto MT,Georgia,Book Antiqua,Palatino,Times New Roman,Serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]too large a per centage as their cut for allowing the pipeline project to proceed. Hence, the oil monopoly need[ed] to overthrow the Kabul government, install their own government, and proceed with the pipeline project.[/FONT] — Sherman H. Skolnick, The Overthrow of the American Republic, Part 2[/FONT]​
http://www.serendipity.li/wtc9.htm

How far has that pipeline progressed by now? Is it done? Is the oil already flowing?
Does anyone know?

Never mind reading "The Overthrow of the American Republic." That could serve as the topic of a separate thread.
 

dancing-loon

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I doubt it. We've been the original complainers about others not doing anything over there and that we're already stretched for resources. If someway 5-10,000 troops were just being sent over because of this comment by Gates, that'd not only show we're liars and full of crap.... but it will also make you wonder where they hell those troops came from.

You are not considering our Stephie-Wonder!:lol:;-)
 

CDNBear

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I guess with all the hyperbole you all have running through your heads about America and American stopped the obvious from being filtered through...

You missed the fact that he's right eh?

Hence why Canada has had to pick up the slack.

Ya, you guys are right on the money...The rest of the lazy suckass NATO Allies (Other then Canada) should ruck up and pull out.

I wonder how many Canadian body bag will come home used then.

Good thinkin'...
 

Zzarchov

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I can't see the USA complaining about Brits not knowing how to fight an insurgency, a majority of its officer core have spent 10+ years fighting an insurgency , they are arguabley the best trained in the western world at fighting insurgents.
 

darkbeaver

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I guess with all the hyperbole you all have running through your heads about America and American stopped the obvious from being filtered through...

You missed the fact that he's right eh?

Hence why Canada has had to pick up the slack.

Ya, you guys are right on the money...The rest of the lazy suckass NATO Allies (Other then Canada) should ruck up and pull out.

I wonder how many Canadian body bag will come home used then.

Good thinkin'...

Tell us again why we're thier bear, I forget. Was it to save poppys?" MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" Now we can attack Pakistan with Uncle Scam.
 

thomaska

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May 24, 2006
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Comments from a REMF (rear echelon mother f*****) should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm sure if it had been a grunt with boots on the ground who had been interviewed, they would have praised the NATO troops, all of them.

That being said, I was surprised to see you guys' reactions to criticism of your military...

It's so common-place for us, that I almost wondered why you guys were getting so upset, but then I remembered that you guys are more used to dishing it out than you are to receiving it.

Don't worry, you get used to it. There comes a point when you'll realize the people who mattered, those who matter now, and those who never did, or will.
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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I guess with all the hyperbole you all have running through your heads about America and American stopped the obvious from being filtered through...

You missed the fact that he's right eh?

Hence why Canada has had to pick up the slack.

Ya, you guys are right on the money...The rest of the lazy suckass NATO Allies (Other then Canada) should ruck up and pull out.

I wonder how many Canadian body bag will come home used then.

Good thinkin'...


Give me a frickin break...what we have here is an american, once again, shooting his mouth off and bad mouthing the Canadian contribution to helping THEIR ass, along with bad mouthing the rest of the american allies.

What his problem...... Canadians not killing enough civilians for the american liking?
 

earth_as_one

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Whether Canada stays in or out of Afghanistan should be based on what is Canada's best interest, not a pseudo news story about the opinion of an American general.

But given the overall level of pro-war BS we've been subjected to since 9/11, its refreshing to see anti-war propaganda gaining ground.
 

gopher

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Secretary of Defence Gates has the brains of a Gerbel.

It wouldn't surprise me if some countries pulled out of that phoney oil war. Who needs that kind of insult?



It will likely mean a greater combat role by the USA, there. And, of course, ultimately it means higher war profits for Halliburton. That is what Bush is after.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Well... I dunno. Seems to me there's at least a grain of truth in Gates' remarks. NATO spent almost 50 years preparing for a Soviet invasion of Western Europe across the plains of what used to be East Germany. Tactics, weapons, doctrine, intel, training, were all focused on that. Counter insurgency, or guerrilla warfare, or whatever you want to call it, is very different. The enemy is elusive, doesn't appear in massed battle groups, sneaks around behind you, subverts the civilian population... This is a very unconventional war, conventional methods don't work. Isn't it possible that that's all he meant? I haven't seen a detailed report on what he actually said yet, only what I've been able to get from CBC Radio news reports and interviews, some of them admittedly with Pentagon spin doctors who aren't to be trusted.

I think I'll wait to see what the Globe&Mail and CBC report tomorrow before saying anything more.
 

gerryh

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Well... I dunno. Seems to me there's at least a grain of truth in Gate's remarks. NATO spent almost 50 years preparing for a Soviet invasion of Western Europe across the plains of what used to be East Germany. Tactics, weapons, doctrine, intel, training, were all focused on that. Counter insurgency, or guerrilla warfare, or whatever you want to call it, is very different. The enemy is elusive, doesn't appear in massed battle groups, sneaks around behind you, subverts the civilian population... This is a very unconventional war, conventional methods don't work. Isn't it possible that that's all he meant? I haven't seen a detailed report on what he actually said yet, only what I've been able to get from CBC Radio news reports and interviews, some of them admittedly with Pentagon spin doctors who aren't to be trusted.

I think I'll wait to see what the Globe&Mail and CBC report tomorrow before saying anything more.


Kinda like what the Brits had to deal with in Northern Ireland.
 

dancing-loon

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Oct 8, 2007
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Either Gates is by nature an impatient man or he is truly under pressure to get the job done. We have to realize that the Americans are spending millions every day on the two wars. What have they gotten in return?

I read that things are revving up over the huge oil reserves under the Caspian Sea. Exxon Mobil is of course there, too, but so are a bunch of European oil companies as well. Now the Russians also want their share.

To see the Americans boggled down in two wars, while the other nations practically have their hands on the pumps, must make Gates nervous!

Our Great Peter downplayed Gates' comments, pleading for cooler heads. He said that in recent conversations Gates had praised the Canadian forces.

Read here: http://tinyurl.com/2a4sof