Mass'Debator
Posts: 4,282 
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
January 14th, 2008, 10:36 AM
Since my principles at this stage in my life are not for donations, I in turn do not accept donations. If my body gives out, then so be it, that's my natural life.
I don't understand why people are so afraid of death and want to live for as long as they can, by grabbing 2nd hand body parts from other people like a used car. We all have to go sometime, if you haven't been able to do everything in your lives you wanted to yet, then you never will.
And I'm not some morbid person waiting for death or feel crappy about my life. On the contrary. I have lived a lot longer then I have expected myself to.... every day now is a bonus to me. I have accepted my life for what it is and what it will become.
But also I'm not about to be delusional and say that my mind will not change later on in life. (Which is also why I pointed out my principles in my current stage of life) People change their minds. If for some reason my situation changes and I need a donation, then it would only be logical to donate that same organ back when I'm done :P
Yes, that's right, I'm one evil sonofabitch HE HE HE HE.... *starts fire*
Quoting jenn
I'm only selfish if I agree to have a transplant for my own health and yet still did not donate in return.
maybe not so full of crap... but ya.... selfish....
Since my principles at this stage in my life are not for donations, I in turn do not accept donations. If my body gives out, then so be it, that's my natural life.
I don't understand why people are so afraid of death and want to live for as long as they can, by grabbing 2nd hand body parts from other people like a used car. We all have to go sometime, if you haven't been able to do everything in your lives you wanted to yet, then you never will.
And I'm not some morbid person waiting for death or feel crappy about my life. On the contrary. I have lived a lot longer then I have expected myself to.... every day now is a bonus to me. I have accepted my life for what it is and what it will become.
But also I'm not about to be delusional and say that my mind will not change later on in life. (Which is also why I pointed out my principles in my current stage of life) People change their minds. If for some reason my situation changes and I need a donation, then it would only be logical to donate that same organ back when I'm done :P
Yes, that's right, I'm one evil sonofabitch HE HE HE HE.... *starts fire*
Electoral Member
Posts: 523
January 14th, 2008, 11:08 AM
But.... there are other reasons your body gives out... and some not natural...also I think once you have had a transplant you are not eligible to donate...maybe I am wrong...
I don't agree with the "if you haven't been able to do everything in your lives you wanted to yet, then you never will. maybe if you are 100.. but...There are things I want to do yet.. I am not ready to give up..
But.... there are other reasons your body gives out... and some not natural...also I think once you have had a transplant you are not eligible to donate...maybe I am wrong...
I don't agree with the "if you haven't been able to do everything in your lives you wanted to yet, then you never will. maybe if you are 100.. but...There are things I want to do yet.. I am not ready to give up..
Mass'Debator
Posts: 4,282
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
January 14th, 2008, 12:37 PM
But I guess the easiest way to put it from my perspective, is that the more we try and prolong our lives, the more we try to avoid death, the more our population grows and expands through the globe.
There still has to be some level of natural selection besides wars :P
I just don't want to be sitting in some chair with IV's loaded into my body to keep my 2nd hand organs going, so I can say I lived another day, when I didn't do anything that day because I'm too old. After so many surgeries and replacements of organs, those surgeries alone would put a big dent in your health I would imagine.
Before you know it, you'll be 250 years old and about as pretty as this:
COM'ERE and Give your GREAT GREAT GREAT GRANDMOTHER A KISS!!! *coughs up dust*
Quoting jenn
Well I'm not about to shoot down other's personal opinions. That's just how I feel now. I'm still doing new and interesting things in my life, but I understand I will not be able to do everything. Some people live for many years.... some die as children for many reasons... accidents, organ failure, defects, etc.
But.... there are other reasons your body gives out... and some not natural...also I think once you have had a transplant you are not eligible to donate...maybe I am wrong...
I don't agree with the "if you haven't been able to do everything in your lives you wanted to yet, then you never will. maybe if you are 100.. but...There are things I want to do yet.. I am not ready to give up..
I don't agree with the "if you haven't been able to do everything in your lives you wanted to yet, then you never will. maybe if you are 100.. but...There are things I want to do yet.. I am not ready to give up..
But I guess the easiest way to put it from my perspective, is that the more we try and prolong our lives, the more we try to avoid death, the more our population grows and expands through the globe.
There still has to be some level of natural selection besides wars :P
I just don't want to be sitting in some chair with IV's loaded into my body to keep my 2nd hand organs going, so I can say I lived another day, when I didn't do anything that day because I'm too old. After so many surgeries and replacements of organs, those surgeries alone would put a big dent in your health I would imagine.
Before you know it, you'll be 250 years old and about as pretty as this:
COM'ERE and Give your GREAT GREAT GREAT GRANDMOTHER A KISS!!! *coughs up dust*
House Member
Posts: 3,378
January 14th, 2008, 02:17 PM
As long as you don't ever get on a list to receive a donar Praxius I think you are well within your rights to not give up your body parts.
Its you alone who has to go before the pearly gates and explain why you let your organs rot in the ground rather than donate them and save someone.
To me it seems odd not to, but if it bothers you it bothers you. And you aren't wierd (as much as I teased you above), lots of people don't swap body parts to save lives.
Jehovah's Witnesses won't share blood for instance.
So if you won't share blood or other organs because of religious reasons (or just because you believe its someones time), you have that right and no one should mock you for it.
As long as you don't ever get on a list to receive a donar Praxius I think you are well within your rights to not give up your body parts.
Its you alone who has to go before the pearly gates and explain why you let your organs rot in the ground rather than donate them and save someone.
To me it seems odd not to, but if it bothers you it bothers you. And you aren't wierd (as much as I teased you above), lots of people don't swap body parts to save lives.
Jehovah's Witnesses won't share blood for instance.
So if you won't share blood or other organs because of religious reasons (or just because you believe its someones time), you have that right and no one should mock you for it.
Mass'Debator
Posts: 4,282
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
January 14th, 2008, 05:36 PM
But besides that, I have my own outlook of life and the afterlife, besides Christianity.... a religion which borrowed angels and halos from the Greeks.
She had tubes all down her throat to help her breath and all she could do was move a hand and look around... if not, sleep.... for two weeks.
My family's beliefs went against what I knew my grandmother wanted. Their beliefs were to keep her alive as long as possible and hope that God would bring her back out of it. But they kept her on the machine until they had to remove it or else it would do perm. damage.
They took her off.... she died. She shuold have died as she wanted, not in a hospital for two weeks with people coming from all over and crying over her, before she was even in a casket, which I imagine was much like one she was living at the time.
If I thought about it, I would have gotten her a pen and paper, but then another side of me didn't want to cause friction and more drama within the family at the time. Being young at the time, I knew was was need, but I didn't have enough courage to say something.
--------------------------------------
But my grandfather on the other side of the family had a very similar situation, but opposite. He had numerous strokes. He was a fisherman all his life and built a cabin for the family out on a lake. He used to boat all the grand kids out every summer to get away and have fun.
One day he was having the same effect, and knew this would be the last time for him, because he'd be damned if he's stay in a hospital until he dies after a stroke.
He took the family out as usual and my grandmother noticed something was wrong, but he as well, kept quet about it. He got them all to the camp across the lake, then headed out into the woods and passed away. Where he always felt peaceful and back with nature.
Unfortunatly how he was found was not so pleasent for one of my realitives, but the principle none the less was understood by all. He went as he wanted, and how he was supposed to in his eyes.
Much as I hope to someday. I may not live for a long time, maybe I will. But whatever way I do, be it cancer, or a heat attack, or whatever... I hope to be in a place I am happy. Which is also why at the same time, I made peace with my life, and why everyday is a bonus.
It's not that I'm gonna see a truck flying at me and I'm gonna go *shrug* "Oh well" ~ I'm gonna fight tooth and nail to survive. But with what I was born with, not from what someone died with.
Quoting Zzarchov
I don't believe in the Bible it states we have to give up our dead bodies to save the lives of others. Wouldn't that be cheating "God's Plan?"
As long as you don't ever get on a list to receive a donar Praxius I think you are well within your rights to not give up your body parts.
Its you alone who has to go before the pearly gates and explain why you let your organs rot in the ground rather than donate them and save someone.
Its you alone who has to go before the pearly gates and explain why you let your organs rot in the ground rather than donate them and save someone.
But besides that, I have my own outlook of life and the afterlife, besides Christianity.... a religion which borrowed angels and halos from the Greeks.
Quote:
Well I also was brought up from a Roman Catholic family. But besides that, a few experiences in my life have brought me to my conclusion. The last of which was when my grandmother had a stroke and was in the hospital for two weeks on life support. She knew it was coming on and had previous ones. She knew the next one would make her stuck in the hospital until she died. So she never told anybody for a week she wasn't feeling well. Finally my grandfather noticed and took her to the hospital.
To me it seems odd not to, but if it bothers you it bothers you. And you aren't wierd (as much as I teased you above), lots of people don't swap body parts to save lives.
Jehovah's Witnesses won't share blood for instance.
So if you won't share blood or other organs because of religious reasons (or just because you believe its someones time), you have that right and no one should mock you for it.
Jehovah's Witnesses won't share blood for instance.
So if you won't share blood or other organs because of religious reasons (or just because you believe its someones time), you have that right and no one should mock you for it.
She had tubes all down her throat to help her breath and all she could do was move a hand and look around... if not, sleep.... for two weeks.
My family's beliefs went against what I knew my grandmother wanted. Their beliefs were to keep her alive as long as possible and hope that God would bring her back out of it. But they kept her on the machine until they had to remove it or else it would do perm. damage.
They took her off.... she died. She shuold have died as she wanted, not in a hospital for two weeks with people coming from all over and crying over her, before she was even in a casket, which I imagine was much like one she was living at the time.
If I thought about it, I would have gotten her a pen and paper, but then another side of me didn't want to cause friction and more drama within the family at the time. Being young at the time, I knew was was need, but I didn't have enough courage to say something.
--------------------------------------
But my grandfather on the other side of the family had a very similar situation, but opposite. He had numerous strokes. He was a fisherman all his life and built a cabin for the family out on a lake. He used to boat all the grand kids out every summer to get away and have fun.
One day he was having the same effect, and knew this would be the last time for him, because he'd be damned if he's stay in a hospital until he dies after a stroke.
He took the family out as usual and my grandmother noticed something was wrong, but he as well, kept quet about it. He got them all to the camp across the lake, then headed out into the woods and passed away. Where he always felt peaceful and back with nature.
Unfortunatly how he was found was not so pleasent for one of my realitives, but the principle none the less was understood by all. He went as he wanted, and how he was supposed to in his eyes.
Much as I hope to someday. I may not live for a long time, maybe I will. But whatever way I do, be it cancer, or a heat attack, or whatever... I hope to be in a place I am happy. Which is also why at the same time, I made peace with my life, and why everyday is a bonus.
It's not that I'm gonna see a truck flying at me and I'm gonna go *shrug* "Oh well" ~ I'm gonna fight tooth and nail to survive. But with what I was born with, not from what someone died with.
Gobsmacked
Posts: 5,132
Location: Edmonton AB
Location: Edmonton AB
January 14th, 2008, 07:40 PM
I see your point, Praxious. I appreciate you sharing the stories about your grandparents - that's always such a tough time for families -so hard for people to do the 'right' thing - because there is no one and only right thing except to honour the wishes of the dying.... but we've been so frightfully (literally) conditioned to fear the only natural conclusion we can come to. Silly really, isn't it?
As for not sharing of body parts, I see it differently. If I have a chance to continue living a good quality of life, I want to be around as long as I can for my kids and one day hopefully, my grandkids. If that means accepting a slightly used heart or kidney, meh... I'll greatfully accept it. Likewise, if there's anything left on my body that anybody could use, they're welcome to it. I kind of doubt there'll be much to salvage when I'm done with it though - I've been getting maximum usage out of it all since I got it, it'll probably be pretty worn out by the time I go.
I see your point, Praxious. I appreciate you sharing the stories about your grandparents - that's always such a tough time for families -so hard for people to do the 'right' thing - because there is no one and only right thing except to honour the wishes of the dying.... but we've been so frightfully (literally) conditioned to fear the only natural conclusion we can come to. Silly really, isn't it?
As for not sharing of body parts, I see it differently. If I have a chance to continue living a good quality of life, I want to be around as long as I can for my kids and one day hopefully, my grandkids. If that means accepting a slightly used heart or kidney, meh... I'll greatfully accept it. Likewise, if there's anything left on my body that anybody could use, they're welcome to it. I kind of doubt there'll be much to salvage when I'm done with it though - I've been getting maximum usage out of it all since I got it, it'll probably be pretty worn out by the time I go.
Council Member
Posts: 1,706
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
January 14th, 2008, 08:08 PM
Praxious, I understand what you were saying about your Grandmother, but being Catholic had nothing to do with that. I'm Catholic and my family is Catholic. When my Dad was brought to the hospital and we were told that he had 10 days tops to live, he was brought home to die. Lucky for us, the bugger decided he wasn't ready to die, or God decided he wasn't ready for him.( however you want to look at it). He could have stayed at the hospital, hooked upto breahing tubes, catheters out of every orifice, dialisis machines, but we knew that was not what he wanted and the Catholic Church does not require you to hook up to those machines to keep you living a few more weeks or months.
Your example of being "old" and getting transplant after transplant to keep you alive is onerous. They WON'T do that today. There aren't enough donor organs to take care of the demand from reasonably young people let alone donor organs for "old" people. My parents are both in and around 70, they both need kidneys...they aint gonna get em....they are too old. When their kidneys finally pack it in for good, and the dialisis has finished off their hearts, they will die.
Praxious, I understand what you were saying about your Grandmother, but being Catholic had nothing to do with that. I'm Catholic and my family is Catholic. When my Dad was brought to the hospital and we were told that he had 10 days tops to live, he was brought home to die. Lucky for us, the bugger decided he wasn't ready to die, or God decided he wasn't ready for him.( however you want to look at it). He could have stayed at the hospital, hooked upto breahing tubes, catheters out of every orifice, dialisis machines, but we knew that was not what he wanted and the Catholic Church does not require you to hook up to those machines to keep you living a few more weeks or months.
Your example of being "old" and getting transplant after transplant to keep you alive is onerous. They WON'T do that today. There aren't enough donor organs to take care of the demand from reasonably young people let alone donor organs for "old" people. My parents are both in and around 70, they both need kidneys...they aint gonna get em....they are too old. When their kidneys finally pack it in for good, and the dialisis has finished off their hearts, they will die.
Electoral Member
Posts: 523
January 14th, 2008, 09:26 PM
thing is family has to know the wishes of the family member to be able to carry them out. If your grandmother had told anyone that she didn't want to live that way.. then that should have been respected... if she hadn't.. then family members will do anything to keep them alive.. I lost my father to a stroke a few years ago too... BUT before he left us I told them.. no invasive rescues.. no breaking his ribs open to restart his heart etc. as much as it hurt.I knew in my heart he would not want to live that way.. so I let him go... it was one of the hardest things I had to take control of and do...
thing is family has to know the wishes of the family member to be able to carry them out. If your grandmother had told anyone that she didn't want to live that way.. then that should have been respected... if she hadn't.. then family members will do anything to keep them alive.. I lost my father to a stroke a few years ago too... BUT before he left us I told them.. no invasive rescues.. no breaking his ribs open to restart his heart etc. as much as it hurt.I knew in my heart he would not want to live that way.. so I let him go... it was one of the hardest things I had to take control of and do...
House Member
Posts: 3,378
January 15th, 2008, 07:06 AM
And they do truly believe in it for them and their children.
Any religious views you have are between you and god.
Quoting Praxius
Alot of people think so, they only follow the biblical advice of annointing with oils. If you get in an accident and need blood or anti-inflamitories, or get the flu and need medicine, they view it as God's will if you die from these things.
Wouldn't that be cheating "God's Plan?"
And they do truly believe in it for them and their children.
Any religious views you have are between you and god.
