Dirty secrets

hermanntrude
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#1
REBECCA DUBE
From Friday's Globe and Mail
October 19, 2007 at 8:38 AM EDT



Romans spent several hours a day soaking in public tubs, scraping off dirt with a metal tool and then rubbing themselves with oil to get clean.


Seventeenth-century European scientists "proved" that wearing fresh linen was much safer and more effective at cleaning the body than immersing oneself in water.


Nowadays, being clean requires daily showers, frequent hand-washing and countless anti-bacterial products.


Cleanliness is a moving target, Toronto writer Katherine Ashenburg says in her new book The Dirt on Clean: An Unsanitized History.


In an interview with The Globe and Mail, Ms. Ashenburg explores the history of "clean," why you didn't really need a shower today and other dirty secrets.


It seems like the history of clean is closely tied to the history of smell. Let's start with a question that you were asked often as you were researching this book: Didn't people in the old days just smell bad all the time?


The smell of dried sweat was just the ocean our ancestors swam in. I think the nose is very adaptable as an organ. I make the comparison with the fact that 20 or 30 years ago, our college classrooms and people's houses and hotels and restaurants were filled with cigarette smoke, and we just adjusted. And now that there are all these anti-smoking laws, you walk into a room where someone's had a cigarette three days ago and you say, "Oh, has someone in here been smoking?"
When you started telling friends you were writing this book, you began getting confessions from people. What sort of secrets did people tell you?


They were much more likely to confide less washing than the norm rather than more washing. Although one woman friend said to me, "You know when I started going out with X 25 years ago, he was taking three showers a day, and I would have just loved to know what he really smelled like, as opposed to Dial soap." And I said something like, well, now you've been married for 25 years, so I guess you know. And she just looked at me and said, "No, I have no idea, he's still doing it." ...


It reminded me of the last book I wrote, which was about mourning customs, when people would take me aside at parties and say, "You know I'm still wearing my father's undershirts and he died five years ago." Things that were not really acceptable for 20th- or 21st-century North America.
So I thought wow, there's a kind of underground, a whole universe of people that are flying under the radar, who are not obeying the rules.


Is there the same amount of emotion around people's cleaning habits as you found around their secret mourning habits?


Oh, yeah! Probably more so because we've been so conditioned by advertising.


There's this word that occurs over and over and over again in advertising, starting right at the beginning of the 20th century - we're terrified of "offending." Which was a really completely new word to use in terms of your hygiene.


I mean, you offended somebody by smiting them on the face or something, not by the fact that you hadn't washed within three hours of seeing them.


Speaking of advertising, I was fascinated by the parts of the book that talked about the "problem" of a woman's odour. How closely does this preoccupation with feminine hygiene products track with the women's movement?


The first instance of that is weird, or counterintuitive, in the sense that feminine hygiene sprays were invented right at the end of the 1960s, beginning of the seventies, and connected in the ads with women's liberation, which was also connected in those days with the sexual liberation movement.
So women were induced by these ads to think that when they went out to enjoy sex with whomever they wanted to ... they had to be absolutely odour-free and they would enjoy it so much more if they didn't ever have to worry that they smelled like a woman.


What do you think of the
current craze for all these
anti-bacterial products?


I think it's advertisers looking for a new frontier, new products that they can sell. I think they're very successfully working on our fears of disease, which has become a much more real event in the past 20 years or so.


There was a very interesting article in The New York Times connecting all these fears of new germs and all these sprays and anti-everythings with the fear of terrorism, saying just as germs are unseen, deadly enemies, so are terrorists.


I enjoyed your description of how bathrooms have gone from non-existence to being basically a second master bedroom. What are some of the lavish things people are doing with their bathrooms?


Well, they're being encouraged by bathroom manufacturers and shelter magazines to see the bathroom as another kind of family room, as a place where the whole family gets together at the end of the day and decompresses and talks about their day and relaxes together.


On the one hand that sounds sort of crazy, sybaritic, but on the other hand the Romans would have found that completely natural. And other cultures that bathe communally: The Japanese do that in their traditional baths; Hungarians do that when they go to the mineral baths that are all over Budapest.


Do you think there's anything that could break the North American trend toward overzealous cleanliness?


As we get more green and more conscious of what we're doing to the environment, I think that the pendulum will swing back.


There is just some more understanding or curiosity about what are the toxins that we're pouring down our drains with all these conditioners and deodorants and body softeners and body hardeners, whatever it is that people are buying. And nothing would change our washing habits more quickly than a water shortage, for sure. ...


But just having looked at what we think is clean over 28 centuries, it just seems that that pendulum is always moving. Everybody thinks they've got it right and almost nobody in the 28 centuries has really gotten it.


There's always some dirt on clean, which is what the title means. I think because it's about our bodies and it's about control, the definition never stays constant for all that long.


Did researching and writing
this book cause you to change any of your own personal
habits?


Yes. First of all it has made me much more conscious of the kind of voluntary side of bathing. ...
I now realize we've never had less reason to wash, or I've never had less reason to wash in that I walk down the hall to my office and I sit in front of my computer all day. ...


Obviously there's a variation in how much people sweat and how much they perspire, and I have nothing against recreational showers or baths. But I've really come to realize in the course of the book that one a day for many sedentary workers is not really necessary.


Go ahead and have one, as long as we're not having a water shortage, but realize that hey, I feel like it, it's not like I need it.
 
hermanntrude
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#2
so what's your dirty secret?

I once went almost a year without washing my hair.
 
karrie
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#3
I don't bathe to the north american 'standard'. I bathe when my hair gets greasy. Bathing anymore than that causes massive skin problems for me, and is thus counterintuitive to the idea that it will improve my hygiene.
 
Tonington
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#4
When I worked as a fishery observer, I would be on a boat for many days without a shower. Sweating profusely during the periods of frantic work, and then getting covered with fish guts. That shower back on land was almost orgasmic. Man musk plus fish guts, not a good smell
 
Dreadful Nonsense
#5
oh boy i get to talk about my clean fetishes.....oh man...I'll be back on this one.....stay tuned
 
DurkaDurka
#6
I crapped in a urinal once. true story.
 
Dreadful Nonsense
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

I crapped in a urinal once. true story.

thats my man
 
Nuggler
Avatar
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

When I worked as a fishery observer, I would be on a boat for many days without a shower. Sweating profusely during the periods of frantic work, and then getting covered with fish guts. That shower back on land was almost orgasmic. Man musk plus fish guts, not a good smell

Were you ever tempted to go directly to the "best" restaurant in town, hold your arms straight up and yell, HEY, GARCON..........rye and water and a T-bone, and MAKE IT QUICK!!!""

LMAO just thinking of what woulda/coulda happened.........

(stinky Nugg)
 
Tonington
Avatar
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by NugglerView Post

Were you ever tempted to go directly to the "best" restaurant in town, hold your arms straight up and yell, HEY, GARCON..........rye and water and a T-bone, and MAKE IT QUICK!!!""

LMAO just thinking of what woulda/coulda happened.........

(stinky Nugg)

No, but I was tempted to find the nearest female and make the most of my 'shore leave'
 
mrmom2
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

I crapped in a urinal once. true story.

Now thats funny
 
lone wolf
Avatar
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

No, but I was tempted to find the nearest female and make the most of my 'shore leave'

'less that wad was a big one (the financial one, that is) Shore. Leave. would be the total conversation. No sense of *ahem* som'o them....

Wolf
 
Curiosity
#12
Thank you God for giving me mostly sisters and only one brother!!!
 
Toro
#13
I'm not telling.
 
DurkaDurka
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by ToroView Post

I'm not telling.

Open up Toro, be a sport.
 
Sal
Avatar
#15
The smell thing is interesting. I can sometimes go all day Sunday without deoderant or a shower and feel okay. After a day, I don't feel good without hitting the shower. I honestly think since we are mostly water we are meant for water.

I looooooooove to swim. It changes your whole head space.

My partner finds scents such as heavy perfume to be offensive. I looooooooooove scent but will forgo it for him. Just this week though I asked him if he could tolerate wearing a light scent every once in a while. I really miss it. I think scent is a turn on.
 
Zan
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#16
I also enjoy a nice scent. But only those that are used with a light touch. Heavy scents, particularly over used, are awful. Has anyone ever figured out a nice way to tell somebody their perfume is so putrid it's sending you into anaphylactic shock?
 
DurkaDurka
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#17
Another secret, i recall going home one night when I was about 17(****faced of course) and I decided it would be a good time to pull one off to some cheesey porno movie on TV, somehow I ended up passing out with my bird in my hand, only to to woken up by my Mom about 4 hours later. I didn't show my face for a while after that, MU, Muhahaha.
 
DurkaDurka
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#18
I have many more dirty secrets... this thread is pg13 5hough.

if I revealed all my dirty secrets, people would probably die.
 
Twila
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#19
Dirty secrets....I picked up goat balls after they'd fallen off...They use these really small elastic bands and they put them over the sack and after about a month they fall off. I didn't know what it was...precisely at the time..that was pretty dirty....they'd been sitting in the dirt for a day or so...

k, that's not really the kind of dirt you're looking for....but like I'd tell anything really juicy to this crowd! lol
 
Sal
Avatar
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

I have many more dirty secrets... this thread is pg13 5hough.

if I revealed all my dirty secrets, people would probably die.

Or just do a group kill, bury the body and you can be our dirty little secret.
 
DurkaDurka
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#21
I won't elaborate on a story involving a random pregnant women and a church.

Jebus has hated me since, he doesn't like having his parking lots defiled.
 
Twila
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#22
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

I won't elaborate on a story involving a random pregnant women and a church.

When you include a random pregnant woman in anything it's bound to be dirty..

Was she a random person or randomly pregnant?
 
Dreadful Nonsense
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by TwilaView Post

Dirty secrets....I picked up goat balls after they'd fallen off...They use these really small elastic bands and they put them over the sack and after about a month they fall off. I didn't know what it was...precisely at the time..that was pretty dirty....they'd been sitting in the dirt for a day or so...

k, that's not really the kind of dirt you're looking for....but like I'd tell anything really juicy to this crowd! lol

i'm trying desperatly to vision and understand what yer on about here....ok this is what i think ya did....

At a petting zoo some idiot lomped of a goat's testickles( can't spell cause i'm all shaky with this vision)...you only had ponytail elastic bands and you tried rubber banding them back on to his penis...no one noticed and the next time you went to the zoo a month later and you found them....

yer so sweet and kind and you can play with your elastics with me anytime
 
DurkaDurka
Avatar
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by TwilaView Post

When you include a random pregnant woman in anything it's bound to be dirty..

Was she a random person or randomly pregnant?

some chick I met off the internet, lamo.

She was a random internet chick from yahoo chat... i felt so dirt after, but Jebus forgave me.

I scrubbed my self with steel wool and gasoline afterwards, probably should have used holy water though.
 
Tonington
Avatar
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

I won't elaborate on a story involving a random pregnant women and a church.

Jebus has hated me since, he doesn't like having his parking lots defiled.

Oh god, it wasn't a Sister was it? Bahahahah. A great halloween costume, pregnant nun
 
DurkaDurka
Avatar
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Oh god, it wasn't a Sister was it? Bahahahah. A great halloween costume, pregnant nun


I dunno, fairly certain she wasn't a nun, she could hardly speak or read. I think I might have fornicated with Helon Keller that.
 
Twila
Avatar
#27
Doc, I use to have a goat when I was little. They use to neuter the non purebred bucks by placing a very small elastic around their testicles.

It's common practice with livestock. But when I was about 8yrs old I didn't know that's what they did. And I found "it" in the dirt. I noticed that my goat, Popeye was missing a piece of his anatomy.
 
Dreadful Nonsense
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by TwilaView Post

Doc, I use to have a goat when I was little. They use to neuter the non purebred bucks by placing a very small elastic around their testicles.

It's common practice with livestock. But when I was about 8yrs old I didn't know that's what they did. And I found "it" in the dirt. I noticed that my goat, Popeye was missing a piece of his anatomy.

ok on second thought then leave yer elastics at home when ya come....

how did you expect this total city guy to know that..i'm like this uber city dude...My wife loves the out doors...ok once when i was driving out to winnipeg we stopped at about 3 in the morning in the middle of nowhere....i could not believe the sky and it's stars.....i'm having a wizz and like looking across this empty space before the forest i am totally petrified that some bear is gonna come out and bite it off.....i had to force pee the idea away...i jump in the van and like me wife goes whats wrong...when i tell her she LOL'ED like no tommorrow....I could ...and have walked down all the allies in toronto at 3 in morning like it's normal...not a worry....i can hang in the worst neighborhoods...nothing not a heart flutter...but get me in the bush and i'm traumatised....
 
mapleleafs67
#29
i can go weeks without showering or batheing and still haven't heard any complaints.When i do shower I get that nasty dandruff all over the place.i'm thinking of dying my hair white and wearing white robes for now on
 

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