Marijuana grower jailed for 9 months

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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Jul 17, 2007 04:30 AM
Nick Pron
Courts Bureau

The lure of huge profits is drawing ordinary citizens into the crime of growing marijuana in their homes despite the health and safety risks and the prospect of going to jail, a judge in Newmarket has warned.
"The potential financial rewards were so great that hundreds of persons in this area with no prior criminal history were becoming involved in this activity," Justice Joseph Kenkel said in a recently released judgment.
Kenkel sentenced Van Hai Phi, who had no prior criminal record, to nine months in jail for marijuana possession and production and hydro theft.
Canadian courts rarely jail first-time offenders for non-violent offences. The judge said he wanted to send the message that courts will not tolerate the region north of Toronto becoming a "haven for drug traffickers and their suppliers."
Phi could have received up to 14 years in prison for the production charge alone.
York Region Police stumbled onto the 732 marijuana plants when they visited Phi's house to investigate a traffic accident last year. Instead of letting police in, Phi fled and hopped over fence in the backyard, Kenkel said.
Police found buckets of chemicals and an illegal hydro meter bypass designed to disguise how much power was being used to grow the plants. An estimated $85-million worth of hydro is stolen in Ontario each year.
"Unfortunately, only a jail sentence would sufficiently deter Mr. Phi and others like him from participation in these lucrative enterprises," said Kenkel.
"A jail sentence is also necessary to denounce the substantial risks posed by placing these operations in residential areas."
Police estimate grow ops can generate more than $200,000 a year by producing several crops. It's been called a billion-dollar-a-year business, run in about 50,000 homes across the country – 10,000 of those in Toronto.
That kind of money attracts other criminals, noted Kenkel. He said a number of violent invasions of grow operations have posed an unacceptable risk to neighbours.
Former grow ops present health concerns as well. Mould usually flourishes in the houses, which are sometimes cleaned and sold to unsuspecting buyers, say police.
And despite the hazardous conditions, children live in many grow ops because they help the operators disguise what is really going on, say police.
When police dismantle the operations, they go into those same homes in biohazard suits and oxygen masks.
In the judgment, Kenkel said police have laid nearly 1,000 charges and shut down 820 grow ops in York Region in the past seven years. A total of 110 children lived in those homes.
Markham and Vaughan traditionally have the most grow ops in York Region, followed by Richmond Hill and Newmarket, police statistics show
 

Impetus

Electoral Member
May 31, 2007
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They haven't figured out that if they allow otherwise law-abiding citizens to grow their own supply, they'll kill the allure of huge profits for organized crime.

How many illegal stills do you see?

How much profit does organized crime make from alcohol? Well, maybe a little, the odd truckload crossing the border sans Duty, but surely not at street level.

Tobacco? A little more, same as above trying to avoid Duty, but note it is illegal to grow tobacco too.

Fact is, the market is huge and they only catch the tip of the iceberg in terms of growers. And the percentage of growers who produce at this scale are the minority.

Muz
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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I think they have figured that out and have come to the conclusion that should there be no marijuana laws to jail and fine people over, there would be far less demand for police and the services that support them. Not too likely that they are going to voluntarily cut their own throats just to solve a problem.

They haven't figured out that if they allow otherwise law-abiding citizens to grow their own supply, they'll kill the allure of huge profits for organized crime.

How many illegal stills do you see?

How much profit does organized crime make from alcohol? Well, maybe a little, the odd truckload crossing the border sans Duty, but surely not at street level.

Tobacco? A little more, same as above trying to avoid Duty, but note it is illegal to grow tobacco too.

Fact is, the market is huge and they only catch the tip of the iceberg in terms of growers. And the percentage of growers who produce at this scale are the minority.

Muz
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
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Toronto
The risk of fire is increased 10 fold when someone rigs up an electrical panel to steal hydro, not too mention the 1000wat bulbs they use in the growing process. I could care less if people grow pot, but if you put the neighborhood at risk due to you messing around with the hydro and having high wattage lights running in a basement, you deserve jail.
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
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Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
In our area they really love to bust "grow ops"- last summer, a couple in their late 50's got popped with a "deadly grow operation"- which, as the new item went on, was detailed as FIVE lousy plants growing amidst their tomatoes in their own backyard

Glad grandma and Grandpa weren't able to complete their evil scheme, who KNOWS what would have happened

Tho I suppose they WERE using a zillion-watt Sun to grow the stuff
 

DurkaDurka

Internet Lawyer
Mar 15, 2006
10,385
129
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Toronto
In our area they really love to bust "grow ops"- last summer, a couple in their late 50's got popped with a "deadly grow operation"- which, as the new item went on, was detailed as FIVE lousy plants growing amidst their tomatoes in their own backyard

Glad grandma and Grandpa weren't able to complete their evil scheme, who KNOWS what would have happened

Tho I suppose they WERE using a zillion-watt Sun to grow the stuff

That's pretty lame, why the cops would waste their time with 5 outdoor plants is beyond me. Anyone should legally be able to grow 5 outdoor plants in my opinion.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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It's simple really, that's $5,000 worth of drugs off the street that will never ruin a teenagers life!

That's pretty lame, why the cops would waste their time with 5 outdoor plants is beyond me. Anyone should legally be able to grow 5 outdoor plants in my opinion.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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Yeah but if you can have your own few plants growing in the garden with the tomatoes then you don't need to go and pay a couple of hundred bucks an ounce. If no one pays that kind of money for it, then no one is going to grow 700+ plants that are worthless. Those profits are taken away from organized crime and at the same time medical Marijuana users can get on with feeling a little better.

The risk of fire is increased 10 fold when someone rigs up an electrical panel to steal hydro, not too mention the 1000wat bulbs they use in the growing process. I could care less if people grow pot, but if you put the neighborhood at risk due to you messing around with the hydro and having high wattage lights running in a basement, you deserve jail.
 

Impetus

Electoral Member
May 31, 2007
447
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There was the matter of stealing hydro. If he was stealing hydro he wasn't exactly growing for personal use.

Hence the discussion about removing the demand...

Durkadurka
The risk of fire is increased 10 fold when someone rigs up an electrical panel to steal hydro, not too mention the 1000wat bulbs they use in the growing process. I could care less if people grow pot, but if you put the neighborhood at risk due to you messing around with the hydro and having high wattage lights running in a basement, you deserve jail.
That's the thing...you only need about half that much wattage if you're allowed to grow two or three plants for personal use. Some people grow tomatoes...no different.

If someone had a tomato grow op in the basement, would they deserve jail too?

Now stealing hydro and all the dangerous wiring I agree is criminal, particularly if it puts others at risk, like in an apartment building. In my past life as an electrician I saw enough bastardized wiring by do-it-your-selfers jury-rigging kilns, welders, hot tubs, Christmas Light displays, etc that makes you wonder how they could sleep at night.

But there are safe ways to do all these things, and when it's above board it can be done more safely by qualified electricians and inspected. The main reason grow ops steal power is to "stealth" their operation from hydro. With the huge profits they can make off the weed in the "black market" the hydro cost is minimal. Huge unusual consumption can be pinpointed easily by hydro utilities.

The main point is removing the black market from the equation.

How many illegal stills used to blow up during prohibition? Many.
How many since the end of prohibition? (well, excluding certain US states)

Imagine a world where you could pop down to the local co-op climate-controlled greenhouse and tend to your two or three plants growing in one of the many spaces for rent. No one tries to break in to steal it (except except maybe underage juveniles) because there's no more huge black market value for it than tomatoes.

Muz
 
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mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
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Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
Plus if marijuana were to be made "less illegal" or whatever, the police would have to do a lot more work in what I would say are more important, but much lower dollar-value areas

In my area, graffitti has become a huge problem, and the best thing our city council could come up with was to actually blame the victims, charging the property owner if the Graffitti isn't removed in a certain amount of time.

There's a park nearby with a garage type which backs on to it. Over the past 12 months, the owner has had to repaint the damn thing several times, and I think he/she's finally given up.

I would like to see a focus on what I would consider to be "real crime".

That being said, not being racist or judgemental, but the guy in the OP sounds like he just might have been involved in gang activity of some kind. I think that anti-gang initiatives would be a better place to focus attention. It's the "organized" and the "crime" parts that are the problem- the particular substance involved, be it black-market tobacco, stolen shoes, or marijuana, is in my view totally unimportant.

A guy selling a pair of shoes is one thing, a guy stealing a truck-load of shoes and selling them is TOTALLY different, and I think it should be the same with pot.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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When I was a child, I thought as a child. Now I've grown and wisened some. I have lived the effects of doctor-prescribed junk to cope with the never-ending pain of arthritis, fibromyalgia and old injuries. I've had to fight an addiction to their chemistry. An old friend is kinder than those strangers. Used in moderation, I don't even get high - and the pain is held at bay. It's not a cure (for nothing short of death is) but it makes it bearable. If I happen to catch the occasional buzz? That's just God's way of saying HI!

Why should anybody have to go visit by night people they wouldn't associate with in daytime? Why should anyone have to bear a criminal record for killing an ache? Agreed - it's a drug, and like anything else - narcotic, alcoholic, electronic or mechanical - it's subject to abuse.

Anyone ever hear about prohibition? That experiment didn't work either. If they legislated and controlled it, they could tax it. Quality would always be relatively the same. Pushers would be put out of work. Prices would go down because 900% of the price is dealer mark-up. Crime rates would drop because there wouldn't be that need to steal to feed the need. The government actually spends more to bust it than they make from the fines, and they'd be collecting revenue from licencing and sales.

Will they? I doubt it. Money is at stake. On one hand, you have a pharmaceutical industry who provides millions of dollars in tax revenues to government and earns billions for big business. On the other, you have an alcohol industry who provides millions of dollars in tax revenues to government and earns billions for big business. Government gets no tax revenue from pot ... and big business doesn't want competition from a weed that can we can grow virtually free in our own back yards. Think it about next election.

Wolf
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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In our area they really love to bust "grow ops"- last summer, a couple in their late 50's got popped with a "deadly grow operation"- which, as the new item went on, was detailed as FIVE lousy plants growing amidst their tomatoes in their own backyard

Glad grandma and Grandpa weren't able to complete their evil scheme, who KNOWS what would have happened

Tho I suppose they WERE using a zillion-watt Sun to grow the stuff


Thing is you don't need thousand watt bulbs.........Sure, in an artificial environment the plants will mature quicker and you can get two crops instead of one in the same time period but the plants will do quite well outside in most areas in the lower mainland. I'm sure the "older" couple weren't growing for profit with five plants....From what I've read, you have to grow enough to make enough profit to pay the fines when you get caught. I had a friend in Delta who grew a half dozen plants among the weeds in a large back yard. These plants grew to be eight feet tall and were becoming a source of worry because one of the neighbors was an RCMP officer. When he finally harvested them he got about two pounds of flowering tops.....great stuff.......so I heard..;-)
[/quote]
 
May 28, 2007
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Honour our Fallen
Your not going to solveanything by weening off the laws....Out and out legalize the thing....lower the price to the point where it's nuts to grow this stuff for profit.....when the initial novelty wears off you won't be increasing use amongst the populace. It will lower crime,and the profit could beef up our health care.....It's just a matter of minutes before this becomes reality......

But you do remember the movie Legends of the Fall, if my interpratation was right they seemed to portray the eleceted officials voting in the Volstead act in order for criminals to profit by it....

It's a real economy in British Columbia, that i recall was allowed to flourish to combat slower econonmic times .....
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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No one can expect that something that the same government who profited magnificently from the sale of tobacco products could permit an untaxed and unregulated (staffers and offices needed for yet another branch of government) to ignore this grey market...

Sure Canadians are so stupid that they'll happily pay rip-off prices at the gasoline station to pad the wallets of the petroleum combines...from which of course the government siphons off....great wads of money....but will cry and wring their hands when the government tells them that the future of their children is at risk from marijuana growers.....

Jeazus Canadians are stupid!
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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Sure Canadians are so stupid that they'll happily pay rip-off prices at the gasoline station to pad the wallets of the petroleum combines...from which of course the government siphons off....great wads of money....but will cry and wring their hands when the government tells them that the future of their children is at risk from marijuana growers.....

Jeazus Canadians are stupid!

I tend to consider this forum to be a pretty good cross section of the Canadian public, and I don't see this attitude towards it that you describe. The large majority of people here are pretty realistic about pot, and in support of its legalization.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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I disagree Karrie

You can get a Canadian warped out of his socks over the pettiness of protectionist greed policies that involve a controlled substance that our government can't get it's hooks into but Canadian sheep don't even murmur about gasoline prices.....

Gasoline that contributes to the rise in carbon dioxide and a delightful menu of epiphenomena that are accepted by nearly everyone in the world as detrimental to the health of Canadians now and the future health of Canadian children....but jump on the bandwagon of outrage at people involved in something that doesn't hurt anyone but themselves.... for the personal user not the "production" ventures.....

It's bait and switch across the face of the world....

Don't think about these things...let the government handle these issues....but hey think about these things and why we all need more police and more government and more money spent.....when solutions are readily available that could address the issue NOW!

Don't listen to new reports out of Iraq or Afghanistan ....watch Paris HIlton and marvel at the chuzpah of O.J. Simpson.....

Don't think about corruption in government and business.....watch Conrad Black make a mockery of justice.....well the two-tier approach to justice is firmly embedded in the conscience of Canadians and Americans so that may be a lost cause to begin with....

Karrie....Canadians should be angry damn angry and aware of the far graver issues that threaten our peace and prosperity....instead....
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
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Yep and the more they are lulled into apathetic sleepy consumption, the more they like it. The living is easy here in good old Canada. We have a very nice short attention span too, so you can basically play the same trick on us a few times before we "catch on" and look to someone else the same entertainment.

We've rid ourselves of those crooked Liberals and replaced them with some crooked Conservatives. Ahhh smell that? Yeah, that's the smell of change. Keeping things the same since the 80s



I disagree Karrie

You can get a Canadian warped out of his socks over the pettiness of protectionist greed policies that involve a controlled substance that our government can't get it's hooks into but Canadian sheep don't even murmur about gasoline prices.....

Gasoline that contributes to the rise in carbon dioxide and a delightful menu of epiphenomena that are accepted by nearly everyone in the world as detrimental to the health of Canadians now and the future health of Canadian children....but jump on the bandwagon of outrage at people involved in something that doesn't hurt anyone but themselves.... for the personal user not the "production" ventures.....

It's bait and switch across the face of the world....

Don't think about these things...let the government handle these issues....but hey think about these things and why we all need more police and more government and more money spent.....when solutions are readily available that could address the issue NOW!

Don't listen to new reports out of Iraq or Afghanistan ....watch Paris HIlton and marvel at the chuzpah of O.J. Simpson.....

Don't think about corruption in government and business.....watch Conrad Black make a mockery of justice.....well the two-tier approach to justice is firmly embedded in the conscience of Canadians and Americans so that may be a lost cause to begin with....

Karrie....Canadians should be angry damn angry and aware of the far graver issues that threaten our peace and prosperity....instead....
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
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www.cynicsunlimited.com
:canada::canada::canada::canada::canada::canada::canada::canada::canada::canada::canada::canada::canada:

Prohibition did not work in the 1920s in the US and banning pot is not working now. Prohibition played a role in creating the mafia in the US. Why feed the criminal beast? Bleed their profits.

Lotteries used to be the numbers rackets which were run by the mafia, now gov't grabs the loot from the Lotto. Gov'ts won't likely get the same money from pot because most people would be content to grow a few plants on their patio.

I don't smoke anything myself but the gov't wastes far too many resources on pot.