The Real Alberta Boom

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
1,352
15
38
Calgary
Obviously nothing is ever perfect but that fact that so many people continue to move to Alberta shows it is still one of the better places to live. I do wish though there was more effort to address housing costs.
 

Jsan

Nominee Member
Apr 6, 2007
78
1
8
Obviously nothing is ever perfect but that fact that so many people continue to move to Alberta shows it is still one of the better places to live. I do wish though there was more effort to address housing costs.

I think it has less to do with that and more to do with the misconception that Alberta's streets are paved in Gold. They seem to think that every job is tied to the oil industry and that somehow that means HUGE dollars? I don't know one person who works in an oil related field and I don't know one person who has received a raise that remotely comes close to keeping up with Alberta's inflation. I really think that it is harder to get ahead financially in this Province than most of the other provinces thanks to the "Boom".
 

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
1,352
15
38
Calgary
I think it has less to do with that and more to do with the misconception that Alberta's streets are paved in Gold. They seem to think that every job is tied to the oil industry and that somehow that means HUGE dollars? I don't know one person who works in an oil related field and I don't know one person who has received a raise that remotely comes close to keeping up with Alberta's inflation. I really think that it is harder to get ahead financially in this Province than most of the other provinces thanks to the "Boom".


I suppose you go where you can get a job and Alberta has lots of them. As far as the perception of Alberta being paved with gold maybe that is changing. Ottawa was ranked the best city in terms of how wages relate to the cost of living.
 

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
1,292
29
48
Edmonton
I've been debating a move to Alberta for some time now in the hopes of cashing in on the boom. Each time I think I'm ready I read a debate like this one and I come back down to reality. I live in the best city in Canada right now. Ottawa has lots of work, housing is reasonable and the whole region is just beautiful. I must be out of my mind to want to leave here.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto


If you can’t pay for rent in Alberta because of the boom then you should ask for a raise or get a higher paying job.

Rental markets anywhere is based on the average persons ability to pay if the landlord charges more for their units then they run the risk of not being able to rent out their units.

Alberta is going through an economic boom employers are screaming for workers so their business can flourish.

Employers will not be able to pay low wages or they will not get anybody to work for them.

You will get the raise because your boss will have to pay a lot more to train and keep a new worker.

 

Walter

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 28, 2007
34,844
93
48
If you can’t pay for rent in Alberta because of the boom then you should ask for a raise or get a higher paying job.

Rental markets anywhere is based on the average persons ability to pay if the landlord charges more for their units then they run the risk of not being able to rent out their units.

Alberta is going through an economic boom employers are screaming for workers so their business can flourish.

Employers will not be able to pay low wages or they will not get anybody to work for them.

You will get the raise because your boss will have to pay a lot more to train and keep a new worker.

Spoken like a true conservative; let the market decide.
 

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
1,352
15
38
Calgary
Spoken like a true conservative; let the market decide.

I pay more income tax in a month then most property owners pay on their property in a year. If the cities would raise property taxes they could build a better transit system so that people could more easily at cheaper places further outside of the city. Isn't supply and demand grate when forien people invest in Canadian property driving up the cost for everyone. Prince Edward Island would never stand for this. They got rid of absentee landowners when they joined confederation. For supply and demand to work well we need to increase the supply.
 

Outta here

Senate Member
Jul 8, 2005
6,778
157
63
Edmonton AB
I live and work in Edmonon, and I'm among the many who are not seeing any of the so-called benefits to this boom. Wages have simply not gone up to meet the rise in the cost of living at all. Where you see the big bucks is up north in the oil camps and the surrounding towns, but their costs of housing and living expenses are even more ludicrous, so alot of that 'extra' money is chewed up surviving, just like here.

Rents all over the province - not just the cities - are going up because people are flocking here under the misunderstanding that high paying jobs are ripe for the picking. Then they get here and find that most of their time and resources are used up just trying to find a place to live... which is pretty much a necessity before one can provide an address on a job application.... In fact, it was getting so ridiculous that as stated in the article in the OP, a law has just been passed so that no landlords may increase their rents more than once per year. Folks were hoping to see a cap or some other form of rent control brought in, but this was the best we got on that front.

. .. and yes, there are lots of jobs here... but at the same rate of pay they always were at, mostly. So what's happening is people are now having to use more of their disposable income (if they have any) to cover housing costs, or dip into grocery or other necessities, or share accomodations to pay for a roof over their heads.

Asking for a raise? Well maybe some employers will accomodate such a request, but most of them still have quite a large pool of surprised and hungry new Albertans to choose from for their staffing needs.

As for people like me who owned property before the boom, we are indeed looking at huge returns on our investment if we sell now. BUT... and this is a big but - even with my house almost tripling in value over the last five years, I still couldn't afford anything else if I sold now. 8O
No matter how I look at it, it's still more feasible for me to stay put rather than try to rent something at almost double the cost of my current mortgage payment, or saddle myself with a new mortgage I might never be able to pay off in my lifetime.

To anyone wishing to move here, I encourage lots of research into specific jobs and accomodation arrangements first.

As an aside, I've also become aware of another hidden cost to folks moving here from other provinces. When it's time to renew your vehicle registration, Alberta apparently has extremely stringent standards to meet on out of province safety inspections. Rusting out old rattle traps that originated here are still on the road, whereas vehicles from elsewhere are being denied safety approvals for seemingly insignificant issues. This can play out into more unexpected large costs to either make the necessary upgrades/repairs to your vehicle or purchase another one.

Alberta seems to be going through some serious growing pains right now, so if there's a specific opportunity for someone here, by all means do your homework before moving, and that should help you prepare a bit for some of the unexpected things that can crop up.

Alberta is my home, but if my kids weren't already so firmly established in their schools etc., I'd be seriously considering moving elsewhere. If I'm facing these kind of costs anyway, I'd rather be doing it on Vancouver Island. :-?
 

Jsan

Nominee Member
Apr 6, 2007
78
1
8
I have an excellent job in a good career and like most people in this province my job or pay has nothing to do with the oil boom. I have talked to so many Albertans who are so sick of this Boom and the so called benefits that we are supposed to be seeing from it. I have had over 3 rent increases in just over the last year and I know they will continue. I can easily afford a house based on my savings and salary but there is no bloody way I will pay what the market is currently asking. This is Edmonton, why would I pay half a million dollars for a house in a city that has 6 months of winter? I will move before I pay the kind of money that a house or condo in this city is currently going for.
And to those people from other parts of the country who are thinking about moving here the only question I have to ask is why? Do you realize that although there are lots of jobs the wages are more than likely no better or barely better than where you are moving from? Do you realize that if you are lucky enough to find a place to live that you will be paying considerably more than in most parts of the country not to mention that it is projected that rents are going to be even higher next year with no end in sight to the increases?
Why in the heck would you want to move here?
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
113
Regina, SK
Rental markets anywhere is based on the average persons ability to pay
And you call yourself Liberalman? Landlords do no such calculations, they'll charge whatever they think the market will bear. They don't care about any average person's ability to pay. With demand outstripping supply the price goes up, it has nothing to do with incomes. Not everybody gets rich in a boom, but there'll always be somebody who'll be able to pay the inflated prices for housing as long as demand is so far ahead of supply.

More generally, moving to a booming place like Alberta just on speculation, with no job and no place to live lined up, is almost always a bad idea. Stay home mt_pockets1000, you'll be happier and more secure.

Alberta's boom is hurting Saskatchewan too. Housing prices in Regina and Saskatoon are rising sharply. Saskatchewan's economy is in pretty good shape, but its growth and the province's population growth aren't anywhere close to being the cause of such rises. It's absentee landlords in Alberta speculating in the property market. Might be nice for them, they can buy properties, renovate them a bit, then flip them for a nice profit, at least for a while, but it looks like a bubble to me. It's putting property beyond the reach of a lot of Saskatchewan people. It's worse in Saskatoon than Regina; there are bidding wars going on routinely in Saskatoon and houses often end up selling for significantly more than their list price. That's starting to happen in Regina now too, but it's not yet at the scale it is in Saskatoon. This is not real demand for housing, it's a speculators market and when it's saturated the bubble will burst and prices will fall.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto


Dexter

The fact is that the landlord is still getting tenants even with their ridicules high rents because the tenants can still pay for it.

Landlords are like the gas stations they see what the competition is charging and the raise it to that level

If the average person can get a high price for their property then they should take it.

Tell me if you had a house for sale would you sell it for as much as you can get or would you sell it for less.

If you did sell it for less the person that bought it would flip it anyways.

 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto


Yes I do, what is happening in the prairie housing market make good economic sense.

I learned it’s all about supply and demand.

If there is too much supply then the price goes down.

If there is not enough supply then the price goes up.

Dexter, am I missing anything?

Did any of the rules change?

If they did tell me I want to know.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
10,168
536
113
Regina, SK
am I missing anything?
You're missing the fact that "Rental markets anywhere is based on the average persons ability to pay" is not true, you obviously don't know how gasoline prices are set, and you introduced irrelevancies about what I should sell my house for, all of which suggested to me that you really don't understand what you're talking about.
 

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
1,352
15
38
Calgary
Yes I do, what is happening in the prairie housing market make good economic sense.

I learned it’s all about supply and demand.

If there is too much supply then the price goes down.

If there is not enough supply then the price goes up.

Dexter, am I missing anything?

Did any of the rules change?

If they did tell me I want to know.

Wow, you're brilliant :roll:. Too much supply is called surplus and too little is called shortage. Of course prices go up where there is a shortage and it is a consequence of a market failure. Much of microeconomics is based on the idealized theory of a perfectly competitive market. Well a perfectiy competitive market is not really perfect it represents much of the values which capitalists espouse when the reference Adam Smith.

Some things to remember about a perfectly competitive market is it assumes:
no barriers of entry:
perfect consumer information:
perfect consumer mobility:

In reality these things do not exist in the real-estate market. For one you can't build on what you don't own. This and the considerable capital cost required to build a large condo present considerable barriers to entry. Consumers do not have perfect access to information. Apartments are hard to find and sell quickly. Someone looking to rent does not no if better deals are out there and if they don't act quick they could be out of luck. Consumers are not perfectly mobile either. It represents a significant dollar and time cost to travel and is difficult for people who do not posses cars.

There are two types of supply and demand to consider. There is supply and demand as a rate and equilibrium supply and demand. In idealized free market economics both the supply and demand curves are in equilibrium. During times of shortage the supply curve is in equilibrium but there is excess demand that would be sufficient to pay for the missing supply if there were not barriers limiting that supply such as a shortage of labor, limited available realestate and a lack of consumer mobility.
 

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
1,352
15
38
Calgary
I have an excellent job in a good career and like most people in this province my job or pay has nothing to do with the oil boom. I have talked to so many Albertans who are so sick of this Boom and the so called benefits that we are supposed to be seeing from it. I have had over 3 rent increases in just over the last year and I know they will continue. I can easily afford a house based on my savings and salary but there is no bloody way I will pay what the market is currently asking. This is Edmonton, why would I pay half a million dollars for a house in a city that has 6 months of winter? I will move before I pay the kind of money that a house or condo in this city is currently going for.
And to those people from other parts of the country who are thinking about moving here the only question I have to ask is why? Do you realize that although there are lots of jobs the wages are more than likely no better or barely better than where you are moving from? Do you realize that if you are lucky enough to find a place to live that you will be paying considerably more than in most parts of the country not to mention that it is projected that rents are going to be even higher next year with no end in sight to the increases?
Why in the heck would you want to move here?

There is a saying. You don't know what you got until it is gone. People in Alberta take jobs for granted. People in the Atlantic provinces don't. Yes Alberta is expensive. So is Vancouver and Toronto. People from small towns come to big cities to get ahead. There simply aren't the same opportunities in small towns especially if you studied a highly skilled profession or trade.

I agree that it is best to have a job before coming to Calgary. However, if you come from a poor rural area you any better if you go to Toronto or Vancouver. The reality of our modern economy is it drives people to the city for opportunities which drives up the price or real estate. The only way we are going to stop this trend is to make less populated areas more attractive to live and work.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto

Dexter

The price is kept high on gas because every station is checking what each other are charging.

This is the same with the apartment rental market.

I am not talking about building condos.

I am talking about the existing supply of housing in any city anywhere in the country.

If there is 1000 people and 700 housing units the prices are high and if there is if there is 700 people and 1000 housing units then the prices are low.

If you want lower priced homes then you have to invest in a car so you can drive into work, that’s why it is cheaper because like you said people that don’t have cars can’t live there and that cuts down the demand, which lowers the price.

Yes there are deals out there in any market and it’s up to the dedicated renter to find them.

There are two types of supply and demand to consider. There is supply and demand as a rate and equilibrium supply and demand. In idealized free market economics both the supply and demand curves are in equilibrium. During times of shortage the supply curve is in equilibrium but there is excess demand that would be sufficient to pay for the missing supply if there were not barriers limiting that supply such as a shortage of labor, limited available real-estate and a lack of consumer mobility



This still equates to supply and demand.

When Alberta goes through another bust then jobs dry up people move away then your vacancy rate will go up and prices will come down because of supply and demand.

 
I pay more income tax in a month then most property owners pay on their property in a year. If the cities would raise property taxes they could build a better transit system so that people could more easily at cheaper places further outside of the city. Isn't supply and demand grate when forien people invest in Canadian property driving up the cost for everyone. Prince Edward Island would never stand for this. They got rid of absentee landowners when they joined confederation. For supply and demand to work well we need to increase the supply.


Great theory - but Calgary is already one of the most spread out cities - how much further do you suggest we sprawl?