Justice in the courts? BS

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
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38
They would have been better off to just let him steal the razors....
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Justice William Ehrcke is a Liberal appointment....he's doing exactly what he is supposed to do.
 

daddyholland

New Member
Apr 19, 2007
35
0
6
I am missing something here....in one sentece they're saying he was tackled and in the next he was beaten. Which one is it? :confused:
Though stealing that many razors sounds pretty stupid and maybe he deserved it. :cool:
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Well, the whole thing ehrckes me. Friggin perps aren't even considered criminal anymore.
I completely agree.....I certainly wasn't paying the Justice or the Liberals any compliments with my remarks.
 

daddyholland

New Member
Apr 19, 2007
35
0
6
lol, yeah especially over razors. You think the guy would of been like: "Ok, you got me...im an idiot."
This definately wont deter people from shoplifting....only encourage. In fact i'm thinking of traveling cross country myself...could use the money! :lol:
 

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
4,558
48
48
Ontario
www.poetrypoem.com
lol, yeah especially over razors. You think the guy would of been like: "Ok, you got me...im an idiot."
This definately wont deter people from shoplifting....only encourage. In fact i'm thinking of traveling cross country myself...could use the money! :lol:

Off topic, can't PM you,you don't have it activated,nice picture of Noah.
 

Sparrow

Council Member
Nov 12, 2006
1,202
23
38
Quebec
And this is expected to deter criminal acts. He is not the first asinine judge to do something stupid. He has a problem, his elevator doesn't go all the way to the top.
 

Libra Girl

Electoral Member
Feb 27, 2006
723
21
18
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Baines, who represented himself, said employees of the supermarket in a Vancouver suburb used unreasonable force when he struggled during his capture. Baines lost a tooth in the incident, and said he now has trouble speaking.
Utter rubbish!
 

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
3,460
58
48
Leiden, the Netherlands
So, first I want to point out that you can read the ruling yourself. Now some excerpts, in order:

"he was dragged down a flight of stairs into the parking lot"
"at the bottom of the stairs, he was pushed face-down onto the ground"
"Mr. Fries grabbed his right arm and twisted it behind his lower back while Mr. Morison grabbed his left arm and put it behind his head to handcuff him"

Ok, so now they handcuffed him, that's the end of the violence right, I mean, I can accept the above, even if it is a bit rogher than what police would do.

"he was lifted off the ground"
"Mr. Fries told him to stop resisting and then started to punch him, knocking one tooth out and cracking another in his top jaw"
"there were several store patrons around telling the store employees to stop hitting him"

So to the onlookers, this was a serious case of abuse. As I said, I could accept it up to the point where one person lifts a handcuffed offender up and the other person starts to pummel him. You don't even have to read very far to find that, paragraph 3 and 4.

Oh, whoops, I need to read further.

"Then Mr. Fries struck Mr. Baines on the head and kicked him in the face." (before he was handcuffed)
"he could see that his face was smeared with blood" (after Baines finally stopped to struggle)


The Judge, a trained legal professional in Canada, points out that section 25(3) of the criminal code states that:

"Subject to subsections (4) and (5), a person is not justified for the purposes of subsection (1) in using force that is intended or is likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm unless the person believes on reasonable grounds that it is necessary for the self-preservation of the person or the preservation of any one under that person’s protection from death or grievous bodily harm."

bodily harm being defined in section 2

"any hurt or injury to a person that interferes with the health or comfort of the person and that is more than merely transient or trifling in nature"

Thus: "I conclude that the force used by Mr. Fries was not reasonable force and was not justified under s. 25(1) of the Criminal Code." Interestingly, "[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]I agree that Mr. Baines is partly at fault. I apportion his responsibility at 20 percent for the injuries he suffered. Accordingly, the award of $15,000 is reduced by 20 percent or $3,000. There is, therefore, a judgment for the plaintiff in the amount of $12,000."

So the question is, where does a reasonable person draw the line on the use of force in detaining criminals? Especially when there is no clear and pressing danger of life or limb for those using the force.
 

Libra Girl

Electoral Member
Feb 27, 2006
723
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Well, now that I have heard the full account it does put a new light on the op, and the force used to detain Mr. Baines was excessive... However, and in the first instance, Mr. Baines wouldn't have been in his predicament had he not stolen in the first place; secondly, knowing that he had stolen, why did he resist arrest? I don't condone the actions of the store detectives, but Mr. Baines conduct did contribute to his injuries... I personally feel that $12,000 is way over the top for the injuries that the thief incurred. One would be lucky to get that kind of money for a broken limb in a personal injury claim, caused accidently.