Prince Charles: Let's kill off the cul-de-sac

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,405
1,667
113
"Cul-de-sac" is a French term meaning "arse/ass of a bag", although the cul-de-sac is a British invention.

A cul-de-sac is a dead-end street - usually with houses - with only one inlet/outlet.

Now Prince Charles wants to get rid of them.......


February 11, 2007


Charles: let’s kill off the cul-de-sac

Prince persuades developers to curb ‘menace’ of suburban closes

Robert Booth


It's a dead-end for the dead-end: Prince Charles wants to rid Britain of the cul-de-sac




BRITAIN’S cul-de-sacs, long the butt of metropolitan snobbery, are now being targeted by the Prince of Wales as an environmental menace that foster crime, car dependence and obesity.

Prince Charles has persuaded Britain’s biggest housebuilders, including Barratt, George Wimpey and Bovis Homes, to halt the postwar spread of suburban closes, a boom reflected by the Channel 4 soap Brookside.

Under new guidelines, they will bring back higher density housing in Victorian-style grids, to encourage people to exercise by placing shops and amenities within walking distance.

Charles’s adviser, Hank Dittmar, director of the Prince’s Foundation for the Built Environment, which is drawing up the code, said the sprawling and looping design of cul-de-sacs forces people into their cars.

Dittmar claimed that many people routinely burn a litre of petrol on a shopping trip for a pint of milk. The new code states that every home should be within a five-minute walk of a shop selling basic foodstuffs.

“If you live at the end of a cul-de-sac in a housing estate, you have to drive to a collector road, then to a main road, to another collector road, to another cul-de-sac to the shop,” he said. “If you live on a set of interconnected blocks you can walk there.”

Research from Dr Richard Jackson, the American public health expert, shows that people in car-based communities weigh on average 6lb more than those in traditional towns.

The prince’s case looks set to be backed by new government policy that will make it harder for housebuilders to win planning permission for cul-de-sacs.

A draft of the Department for Transport’s Manual for Streets, released next month, says cul-de-sacs are “a deadend road system of ‘loops and lollipops’,” that “suffer from layouts that make orientation difficult, create left-over and ill-defined spaces . . . and are inconvenient for pedestrians, cyclists and buses”.

Charles told an audience of housebuilders, in an unreported speech, earlier this month: “The car has been at the centre of the design process for quite a long time. Now we need to put the pedestrian at the centre again.”

He said a return to higher-density housing would also help promote a “low carbon lifestyle”.

“Popular wisdom is that cities produce more emissions than their ‘greener’ suburbs, but in a recent US study, households living in the centre of Los Angeles, San Francisco and Chicago only produced about a quarter of the carbon emissions of the suburban neighbours,” he said.

“This was because people chose foundation and the Home Builders Federation, whose members construct 80% of all new homes, will also seek to harness architecture to fight crime by encouraging a benign form of “curtain twitching”, with front doors facing onto the street and living rooms at the front of the house.

However, the benefits of a ban on cul-de-sacs are disputed. Dave Stubbs, crime prevention adviser at Thames Valley police, said: “Cul-de-sacs which are fully sealed are much safer and less likely to suffer burglary and car crime. It’s like in the Wild West when they used to draw the wagons into a circle at night to create defensible space. More permeability is inexorably linked to higher crime.”

However, research by London University academics has shown that if cul-de-sacs are connected by footpaths, enabling criminals to make their getaway, the chance of being burgled can be five times higher than in an open street.

History of the dead end

Cul-de-sac is a French word, but a British invention that became popular in the early 20th century.

Houses in “garden cities” could be exposed to light and air while remaining closely grouped together, writes Tom Baird.

Letchworth Garden City in Hertfordshire, founded in 1903, contained a pioneering cul-de-sac called Rushby Walk.

Sir Edwin Lutyens and M H Baillie Scott helped to design Hampstead Garden Suburb, which benefited from the first statute to permit the creation of cul-de-sacs with narrow entrances to deter cars.

A government report published in 2006 quoted American research showing that people who live in “car oriented developments” weigh 6lb on average more than those who live in towns with a “connected street network”.

People living in cul-de-sacs are 30% more likely to be burgled according to research published last year by the Space Syntax Laboratory, University College London.

Downing Street, a cul-de-sac, has been associated with the prime minister’s office since 1730.

The market town of Newent in Gloucestershire is home to the largest cul-de-sac in Europe — Foley Road.

timesonline.co.uk
 

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
4,558
48
48
Ontario
www.poetrypoem.com
I rather admire Prince Charles and his views on historic architecture and beauty in buildings. A forgotten thing in today's modern world! I suspect His Royal Highness is fighting a losing battle, but God bless him for the effort.
 

Libra Girl

Electoral Member
Feb 27, 2006
723
21
18
48
If Charles has seen, or ever ventured into a 'cul de sac,' I'll walk barefoot across hot coals! Where I live the nearest 7/11 store is 5 miles down the road, via a motorway, and the nearest supermaket 12 miles the other way.. no buses, no cul de sacs and no potential crime. Bliss!
 

csanopal

Electoral Member
Dec 22, 2006
225
5
18
Toronto, ON
If Charles has seen, or ever ventured into a 'cul de sac,' I'll walk barefoot across hot coals! Where I live the nearest 7/11 store is 5 miles down the road, via a motorway, and the nearest supermaket 12 miles the other way.. no buses, no cul de sacs and no potential crime. Bliss!


That would drive me crazy being so far from anything...
 

dude1981

New Member
Feb 9, 2007
45
3
8
LONDON, ON.
Well, if you got lots of money that was taken from normal people, don't have a real job and live off the taxpayers, you have time to form all kinds of opinions. I can't get why the British, or us for that matter, still let these morons run around with their little titles. Put him and his old lady on a cul de sac!
 

canadarocks

Electoral Member
Dec 26, 2006
233
6
18
Well, if you got lots of money that was taken from normal people, don't have a real job and live off the taxpayers, you have time to form all kinds of opinions. I can't get why the British, or us for that matter, still let these morons run around with their little titles. Put him and his old lady on a cul de sac!


Can you imagine Liz as a neighbour??? Too funny a picture..I'd be calling the police about her legion of dogs...:)
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
4,600
100
63
The Royalty don't really need taxpayer money, they do own alot...alot alot. If they were abolished tommorow they would still live the same old lifestyle. Those are THEIR castles don't forget, unless your going to start requisitioning private property because its nice...that could backfire though when the town you live in decides your home would make a nice yarn museum.
 

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
7,267
118
63
45
Newfoundland!
prince charles has said some very stupid and scaremongering things about nanotechnology, and his massive televised display of ignorance on the matter has made me dislike him intensely
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
285
83
bliss
Ah, how lovely, having someone else decide what sorts of neighborhoods you should to shouldn't be able to bring your kids up in. Personally, the cul de sac is the best type of neighborhood to let little toddlers grow up in. When your kids get old enough to ride their first bicycle, you WANT them to be in a cul de sac. It is 100% possible to still allow builders to put some of these developments into a neighborhood that still puts amenities within walking distance.

I've just come back from a househunting trip to Edmonton. Found a place, after three hellish months of trying to find something. And one of the key decisions in where we would buy was the ability of my children to play in the neighborhood. Being in a neighborhood where a__ h___'s can't get up to 70k/h on your street is important to me.
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
75
Ah, how lovely, having someone else decide what sorts of neighborhoods you should to shouldn't be able to bring your kids up in. Personally, the cul de sac is the best type of neighborhood to let little toddlers grow up in. When your kids get old enough to ride their first bicycle, you WANT them to be in a cul de sac. It is 100% possible to still allow builders to put some of these developments into a neighborhood that still puts amenities within walking distance.

I've just come back from a househunting trip to Edmonton. Found a place, after three hellish months of trying to find something. And one of the key decisions in where we would buy was the ability of my children to play in the neighborhood. Being in a neighborhood where a__ h___'s can't get up to 70k/h on your street is important to me.

Our house is on a cul de sac. It was great to raise the kids in. Prince Charles is in no position to decide how we "commoners" should live, unless he plans to fork out the cash for homes for us that he finds pleasing..otherwise..someone should tell him to go back to the palace and mind his own business.
 

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
7,267
118
63
45
Newfoundland!
personally when i read the title of this thread i thought the cul-de-sac WAS prince charles and someone was suggesting we killed him off. That'd make more sense to me.
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
75
personally when i read the title of this thread i thought the cul-de-sac WAS prince charles and someone was suggesting we killed him off. That'd make more sense to me.

INDEED! But seriously, nothing galls me more than a rich, pampered and privledged person who will be King one day making pompous statements about people's homes.
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
8
18
Eastern Ontario
INDEED! But seriously, nothing galls me more than a rich, pampered and privledged person who will be King one day making pompous statements about people's homes.

hooray!!!! the idle rich..with idle comments!!! What is it any of his busness if streets go through or end duh!!! don't we have enough government let alone have a figure head meddling in affairs...

I can only hope we forget this foriegn head of stateafter the Queenie goes!!! Don't think I could stand seeing his profile on every piece of money I own aarrggghh
 

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
7,267
118
63
45
Newfoundland!
INDEED! But seriously, nothing galls me more than a rich, pampered and privledged person who will be King one day making pompous statements about people's homes.

it bothers me too. His mother must be ashamed. She's always been a dedicated and generally good monarch. She understands she is a servant as well as a leader.
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
75
hooray!!!! the idle rich..with idle comments!!! What is it any of his busness if streets go through or end duh!!! don't we have enough government let alone have a figure head meddling in affairs...

I can only hope we forget this foriegn head of stateafter the Queenie goes!!! Don't think I could stand seeing his profile on every piece of money I own aarrggghh

Absolutely! Or, if we must have a monarch, take an idea Sanctus proposed somewhere and set up an at home Royal Family living in Rideau Hall. I believe he suggested bringing Prince Andrew over and starting a valid, Canadian monarchy.
 

marygaspe

Electoral Member
Jan 19, 2007
670
11
18
75
it bothers me too. His mother must be ashamed. She's always been a dedicated and generally good monarch. She understands she is a servant as well as a leader.

Everybody likes the Queen, but outside of her personally, i very much dislike the notion of us retaining this foreign family as our Head of state.