Elderly Man Shot With Stun Gun For Swinging Cane At Officers


sanctus
Avatar
#1
TAMPA, Fla. -- Tampa police said a stun gun was used to subdue a 69-year-old man who tried to hit two officers with a metal cane.
Authorities said Nathaniel Youman swung the silver cane at another person before two officers came to his home Wednesday.
Reports say Youman was warned to drop the cane, but he refused. The officer asked again and warned Youman that he would be hit with a stun gun if he didn't comply.
Police said Youman refused and tried to swing the cane at both officers. He was then hit by a stun gun and arrested.
Youman is charged with felony aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.
 
tracy
#2
I know people immediately see the age and think the cops were using excessive force, but I have seen plenty of strong elderly people. A nurse in one hospital I worked in had her jaw broken by a nice 70+ year old.
 
Colpy
Avatar
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by tracyView Post

I know people immediately see the age and think the cops were using excessive force, but I have seen plenty of strong elderly people. A nurse in one hospital I worked in had her jaw broken by a nice 70+ year old.

How true!

My dad could shimmy up a clothes-line pole, haul a deer out of the woods, or sling a chainsaw all day when he was 70.
 
Toro
Avatar
#4
Can't let those foggies get out of line!

He was probably driving 20 mph in a 45 zone. That drives me crazy.
 
hermanntrude
Avatar
#5
rediculous. in SOME countries, the police are trained in non-violent, non-hazardous methods of self defence. In others, they're given a stun-gun, a machine gun, three rifles and a big club.
 
L Gilbert
Avatar
#6
metal canes are made of aluminum. If you use force parallel to the shaft (such as in normal use) they are quite strong, but if you use force on them perpendicular to the shaft they're easily bent.
There's no excuse for not cimplying with the officers, but using a stun gun on an old geezer is unbelievably stupid (um, anyone heard of coronary problems in the aged?). They have their own batons and are probably waaaaaaaaaay more adept at fencing with them than some old geezer is with a cane, besides wasn't there more than one cop?

"Oh, well some old fogeys are really strong for their age". Well, do gov'ts hire wimpy cops?
 
L Gilbert
#7
Probably pepper spray 7 year olds for peashooter offenses.
 
Colpy
Avatar
#8
Reading comprehension guys!

He wasn't driving 20 in a 45 zone, he had assaulted someone with the cane.

It wasn't aluminium, it was "silver", which I would assume means a wooden cane with a heavy silver handpiece..................
 
L Gilbert
Avatar
#9
Reading comprehension? Where does it say the cane was wooden with a silver handle? Aluminum is silver colored. Either way, police are trained quite well with their batons, there were two of them, and they showed up at his home after the incident. Anyway, I don't care if the cane was titanium; two trained, younger officers couldn't handle one old geezer with a cane? Gimme a break. Were I the judge I'd charge the two wimpy little donut munching flatfeet of misuse of authority and wasting court time, reduce the oldster's charge to a misdemeanor, and fine the guy $50.
 
L Gilbert
Avatar
#10
Probably physically subdue and cuff 4 year-olds for endangering the public with their squirt guns.
 
hermanntrude
Avatar
#11
doesnt matter if it was a diamond cane with spikes on it. still doesnt warrent the use of a stun-gun. except in the USA where the police are essentially allowed to shoot someone dead for looking funny. i spent 45 minutes in the USA the other day and was relieved when i left
 
L Gilbert
Avatar
#12
How does that joke go........... ? How does one tell a cop from a criminal in LA (Old joke)? The donut.
 
Colpy
Avatar
#13
Well guys, I'm not completely sure you are wrong.............but, as I said earlier, I'd have put my old man up against most young guys when he was 70...........

Secondly, a stun gun is not lethal force.......I'd rather be shot with a Taser than hammered with clubs.

My people don't carry Tasers, batons, or pepper-spray. If they are in immediate danger of death OR grievous bodily harm, they SHOOT you. Some one attacking you with ANY weapon satisfies that prerequisite. That is what I teach them in a course approved by government.
 
L Gilbert
Avatar
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Well guys, I'm not completely sure you are wrong.............but, as I said earlier, I'd have put my old man up against most young guys when he was 70...........

Two of them that are trained in bodily take-down as well as more heavily armed? I wouldn't bet on him.

Quote:

Secondly, a stun gun is not lethal force.......I'd rather be shot with a Taser than hammered with clubs.

Did they even ask the guy if he had ticker problems? Or a pacemaker? IOW, a stun gun or taser can be deadly.

Quote:

My people don't carry Tasers, batons, or pepper-spray. If they are in immediate danger of death OR grievous bodily harm, they SHOOT you. Some one attacking you with ANY weapon satisfies that prerequisite. That is what I teach them in a course approved by government.

Shooting doesn't necessarily involve killing. I prefer the disabling bit. I've had 3 mugging attempts on me and one with a weapon (2 if you include the idiot with the 2x4), all 3 are still alive and kickin as far as I know and I kept all my stuff.
Last edited by L Gilbert; Jan 7th, 2007 at 01:42 PM..
 
jackd
#15
Here's the man;

He was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. deadly weapon...hellooooo.
Only in the U.S.
 
Colpy
Avatar
#16
Quote:

Two of them that are trained in bodily take-down as well as more heavily armed? I wouldn't bet on him.

Neither would I.

Quote:

Did they even ask the guy if he had ticker problems? Or a pacemaker? IOW, a stun gun or taser can be deadly.

True enough, but so can a baton.

Quote:

Shooting doesn't necessarily involve killing. I prefer the disabling bit. I've had 3 mugging attempts on me and one with a weapon, all 3 are still alive and kickin as far as I know and I kept all my stuff.

Professionals shoot centre of visible mass......ALWAYS. That means centre of the torso, if you are completely visible, between the eyes if all I can see is your head. NEVER shoot to wound.
 
L Gilbert
Avatar
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by jackdView Post

Here's the man;

He was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. deadly weapon...hellooooo.
Only in the U.S.

Looks can be deceiving.Silly to base one's judgement of a potentially dangerous person on looks.
 
jackd
#18
Quote:

Professionals shoot centre of visible mass......ALWAYS. That means centre of the torso, if you are completely visible, between the eyes if all I can see is your head. NEVER shoot to wound.

Thank for your confirmation that PROFESSIONALS ( like you qualify them) will always try to maximize the damages.
Shoot to kill. I'm not impressed by your professionalism
 
Colpy
Avatar
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by jackdView Post

Thank for your confirmation that PROFESSIONALS ( like you qualify them) will always try to maximize the damages.
Shoot to kill. I'm not impressed by your professionalism

Please don't take offense, but your attitude is completely typical of those who don't know what they are talking about.

First of all, you never shoot to kill, you shoot to stop. Your purpose is to prevent your assailant from continuing his attack, you want to stop him, whether he lives or dies is irrelevant. You are defending yourself.

There are numerous reasons one never shoots to wound:
1. A hit in the arm or leg does NOT incapacitate an attacker.

2. Hits outside of the centre mass area are extremely hard to score on a moving target, especially when under the extreme stress of an attack. It is simply stupid to waste your time shooting for a non-lethal hit while your attacker presses home his attack.

3. You may have more than one attacker, and while you are wasting rounds and time trying to wound one guy, another could be closing for the kill.

4. Hits on arms and legs over-penetrate, and the bullets continue on their merry way. Misses, of course, also go flying around. We try to avoid both by hitting the solidest, and largest parts of the body. We are responsible for every round we fire, and we don't want ANY winding up in innocent bystanders.

I teach armed self-defense to armoured car guards.

The first option taught is the best: RUN AWAY!

Police don't have that option.
 
L Gilbert
Avatar
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Neither would I.

Not what you said a while ago.



Quote:

True enough, but so can a baton.

Not very likely when you are using it to parry a cane or separate someone from their cane. Either way, that's irrelevant. You said a stun gun isn't deadly. You were wrong.


Quote:

Professionals shoot centre of visible mass......ALWAYS. That means centre of the torso, if you are completely visible, between the eyes if all I can see is your head. NEVER shoot to wound.

Pros like SAS or Seals? Funny I always thought they were the headshot type. A cousin of mine was a SF sniper in Viet Nam: never went for the body. Body shots are for the panic-stricken sort who isn't sure of the target nor their ability.
 
Colpy
Avatar
#21
Quote:

Not what you said a while ago.

I believe I said I would pit him against a (singular) young guy, not two cops...........the point being he would be a dangerous as most young men in a confrontation.


Quote:

Not very likely when you are using it to parry a cane or separate someone from their cane. Either way, that's irrelevant. You said a stun gun isn't deadly. You were wrong.

I never said a stun gun could not kill, I said the use of one is considered non-lethal force. Ditto for a baton. Matter of preference.

Quote:

Pros like SAS or Seals? Funny I always thought they were the headshot type. A cousin of mine was a SF sniper in Viet Nam: never went for the body. Body shots are for the panic-stricken sort who isn't sure of the target nor their ability.

Pros like the SAS or snipers do NOTHING but train, are NOT acting in self-defense, and are using long guns, not pistols (usually) A BIG difference..........apples and oranges.
 
Tonington
Avatar
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Well guys, I'm not completely sure you are wrong.............but, as I said earlier, I'd have put my old man up against most young guys when he was 70...........

Secondly, a stun gun is not lethal force.......I'd rather be shot with a Taser than hammered with clubs.

My people don't carry Tasers, batons, or pepper-spray. If they are in immediate danger of death OR grievous bodily harm, they SHOOT you. Some one attacking you with ANY weapon satisfies that prerequisite. That is what I teach them in a course approved by government.

We all know how that would end up if he used lethal force. I worked at a provincial camping park where the Conservation officer was attacked by a site filled with boozed up teenagers. One hand on his radio, the other grabbed his asp. He dropped two of them(one was about to smash him in the head with a concrete site post) and fumbled through the darkness to his vehicle with rocks and booze bottles flying past him. I just barely got the gate up in time before the 4 RCMP cars would have smashed right through it at 80 km/h. The sad thing is that they all agreed-my next shift there was 8 CO's from around SW Nova- that he would have been canned if he had of used his weapon.
 
L Gilbert
Avatar
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

I never said a stun gun could not kill, I said the use of one is considered non-lethal force. Ditto for a baton. Matter of preference.

What you said was "Secondly, a stun gun is not lethal force". You were wrong. It may not be considered lethal, but considerations can be wrong.



Quote:

Pros like the SAS or snipers do NOTHING but train, are NOT acting in self-defense, and are using long guns, not pistols (usually) A BIG difference..........apples and oranges.

You're saying they don't know how to use sidearms for headshots? rofl General snipers may be inefficient with short barreled weapons, but I wouldn't pit my armored-car guard against an SAS or Seal with sidearms if I were you, they'd end up with a couple 9mm in their noggins.
 
Colpy
Avatar
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

What you said was "Secondly, a stun gun is not lethal force". You were wrong. It may not be considered lethal, but considerations can be wrong.



You're saying they don't know how to use sidearms for headshots? rofl General snipers may be inefficient with short barreled weapons, but I wouldn't pit my armored-car guard against an SAS or Seal with sidearms if I were you, they'd end up with a couple 9mm in their noggins.

First off, syun guns vs batons is splitting hairs.

Secondly, the only time I recall SAS boys using head shots was in the assasination of 4 IRA bombers in Gibralter.......they were shooting MP5s from ambush at unawares individuals moving slowly. NOT handguns, NOT in self-defense. I promise you, put the SAS boys in a street combat situation with handguns, and they shoot for centre mass.

I explained above why centre mass is appropriate.

I also pointed out that SAS troopers do NOTHING but train, so are to be expected to be of superior skill to an armoured car guard.

As well, YOU take on any of my boys and restrict yourself to only head shots.........where do you wish to be buried?

BTW, we do teach head shots.....but only on the third round after two shots to the torso show no reaction. Increasingly, crooks wear body armour.
 
L Gilbert
Avatar
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

As well, YOU take on any of my boys and restrict yourself to only head shots.........where do you wish to be buried?

Nowhere. Gonna be cooked. Too old and buggered up for that stuff anyway, even with paint guns.

Quote:

BTW, we do teach head shots.....but only on the third round after two shots to the torso show no reaction. Increasingly, crooks wear body armour.

Well, then you'll have to gain a little more confidence in your abilities as shooters then, huh?

BTW, I knew why guards and cops shoot for the torso long ago. My comment on confidence and ability stands.

Anyway, the police overreacted against the old guy.
 
L Gilbert
#26
They'll be tackling 2 year-olds for throwing their binkies next thing.
 
Tonington
#27
Haha, look out for that projectile baby vomit!
 
L Gilbert
#28
Oh, that'd be definitely grounds for using deadly force. lol
 
MikeyDB
#29
Colpy is absolutely right on this one...

Any latitude for consideration of error in judgment occurs in assessing the degree of imminent danger to someone else or the officer intervening in a violent dispute/conflict. I'd agree that two trained officers confronting an elderly man wielding a cane..regardless of its composition... should have been able to effect an arrest without deadly force, or in this case the use of electric shock. I wasn't there. Only somone present at the situation has sufficient information to make the call. Second guessing (arm-chair quarterbacking) is great for yackin it up on an electronic bulletin board, but serves no useful purpose when involved directly and immediately in the difficult situation.

We don't train and arm people with implements of deadly force because they're NOT NEEDED! Unfortunately psychological development (evolution over millions of years) appears to have skipped over human beings who still prefer to wage violence and war on each other...an inherent predisposition to self-destruction ...in constant and continuing conflict with the biological imperative to survive...go figure!

I was trained to shoot to kill and participate in a sport that allots higher points for center of mass or head shots than other areas of the target. The roots of the sport are in combat/practical application of lethal force. Thankfully as a civilian I've never been in a situation that demands making that call...that said, if I found myself through some highly improbable convergence of unlikely simultaneous dynamics, assessing the situation and finding that immediate lethal force was the only alternative available...I'm sad to say that the perpetrator would be worm food.

Seeing as how I'm not that much younger than the fellow in Tampa, I'm not sure I'd survive fifty-thousand volts streaming across an already damaged cerebellum...

That said as well, even if the cause behind this fellows behavior was illness or drugs, it's far more likely he would survive that treatment than a nine milly in the noggin.... terminal lead poisoning...
 
tracy
#30
I'd love for the second guessers to have to face a violent old man with a cane...
 

Similar Threads

3
3 police officers shot in Winnipeg
by CBC News | Dec 8th, 2006
no new posts